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  #341  
Old 05-08-2013, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Will you tell her more of the situation, do you think? Otherwise it may be hard to reassure her that she's not at fault here.
I think we might have to tell her a little bit more to ease her mind. With the little we told her, it made her ask more questions. She wants to know why daddy is mad at Si and not being nice to her any more? (He did not answer.) She asked us if we loved Si. I know Matt wanted to say something that probably would not have been too nice or flattering, but he just said, "God says we have to love everyone."

Apparently, her idea of family includes five of us that are part of the core because we are the people who see her the most and on a daily basis. We found this out when we asked her who she wanted to move with her. Her little brother, Matt, Nanny J, Si, and myself. Even though Si does not live with us, she is part of my daughter's core family, and everyone but Si is moving with her family. She does not understand that and does not like it. One of her questions broke my heart. She looked at me and asked in her innocent, childlike way, "If she loves us, why doesn't she want to come with us? She promised that she was coming." With that, she went to sleep. She thinks Si is now a "promise breaker," and that she is part of the reason why she does not want to move.

We are going to try to talk to her again today. After she went to bed, we were trying to figure out ways to make the explanation and turn of events child-friendly and think of questions that she may ask, so we could have the answers in our minds. She needs time to process this for sure. I know she is disappointed and sad. One way or the other, we will figure something out.
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  #342  
Old 05-08-2013, 01:24 AM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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So let's say Matt did a total 180, and he and Si made peace. Would she then go to your new home? Truly wanting to understand the dynamic, I understood that all of you agreed to move. Then Si came to you and you made new plans to stay in UK with her, without discussion with Matt.

I am not sure if I understand that correctly.

Also when Si, decided to ignore the children after the major fight wasn't that hurtful. It seems like this is not healthly for a child either.

Perhaps explaining like any parent, would that Si was part of your life but that she is moving on to other things and while she will always be in her heart, she has made the decision not to move. Honestly, I would be more concerned if the Nanny hadn't gone. Matt, you and the Nanny appear to be the solid foundation in your children's life. Si seems to be there for the good but not the bad.

I do have something to compare this to. My sister was very involved with my child on a daily basis and was very intergal to her. My sister did something that betrayed myself, my husband and my child. She tried to break our family unit out of greed to have a child, herself. I had to remove her from our life and it was difficult on my child. However, I do believe this made the three of us closer as a family and brought a view that people aren't perfect even if we love them to my child.

Truthfully, I have few memories of that time period in my life. As fast as life changes my daughter has few memories and that includes some traumatic stuff from that age.
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  #343  
Old 05-08-2013, 02:00 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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So let's say Matt did a total 180, and he and Si made peace. Would she then go to your new home? Truly wanting to understand the dynamic, I understood that all of you agreed to move. Then Si came to you and you made new plans to stay in UK with her, without discussion with Matt.

I am not sure if I understand that correctly.

Also when Si, decided to ignore the children after the major fight wasn't that hurtful. It seems like this is not healthly for a child either.

Perhaps explaining like any parent, would that Si was part of your life but that she is moving on to other things and while she will always be in her heart, she has made the decision not to move. Honestly, I would be more concerned if the Nanny hadn't gone. Matt, you and the Nanny appear to be the solid foundation in your children's life. Si seems to be there for the good but not the bad.

I do have something to compare this to. My sister was very involved with my child on a daily basis and was very intergal to her. My sister did something that betrayed myself, my husband and my child. She tried to break our family unit out of greed to have a child, herself. I had to remove her from our life and it was difficult on my child. However, I do believe this made the three of us closer as a family and brought a view that people aren't perfect even if we love them to my child.

Truthfully, I have few memories of that time period in my life. As fast as life changes my daughter has few memories and that includes some traumatic stuff from that age.
You forget that Si had been told she wasn't welcome at their home or a member of the family when she wasn't speaking to the children. She was probably afraid of what would happen if she did with Matt being so volatile at the time. She was also probably reeling. I know there have been times where my husband has completely shut himself off from me or our son while he dealt with something internally before coming back to the family.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but with Matt threatening a lengthy custody battle, she may have felt it better if she gave him some space. We don't know, since she is not posting here.

FoL - I think Matt needs to fess up to your daughter that he doesn't want Si to live with you guys. He can tell her that his view of family are only people related by blood or marriage and he only wants to live with people who are relatives (except you guys have a Nanny, so that's not really true) or something along those lines.
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  #344  
Old 05-08-2013, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Livingmybestlife View Post
So let's say Matt did a total 180, and he and Si made peace. Would she then go to your new home? Truly wanting to understand the dynamic, I understood that all of you agreed to move. Then Si came to you and you made new plans to stay in UK with her, without discussion with Matt.

I am not sure if I understand that correctly.

Also when Si, decided to ignore the children after the major fight wasn't that hurtful. It seems like this is not healthly for a child either.

Perhaps explaining like any parent, would that Si was part of your life but that she is moving on to other things and while she will always be in her heart, she has made the decision not to move. Honestly, I would be more concerned if the Nanny hadn't gone. Matt, you and the Nanny appear to be the solid foundation in your children's life. Si seems to be there for the good but not the bad.

I do have something to compare this to. My sister was very involved with my child on a daily basis and was very intergal to her. My sister did something that betrayed myself, my husband and my child. She tried to break our family unit out of greed to have a child, herself. I had to remove her from our life and it was difficult on my child. However, I do believe this made the three of us closer as a family and brought a view that people aren't perfect even if we love them to my child.

Truthfully, I have few memories of that time period in my life. As fast as life changes my daughter has few memories and that includes some traumatic stuff from that age.
The plan for almost a year was for her to move, too. Initial hesitation was expressed. I expected that. It is a challenge to move to a new place. I have days like that now, but then I remember that we have a family to take care of, so it puts things back into perspective for me.

We did look into other plans without consulting with Matt which is why trust is missing and why he felt undermined as a parent. I admit that I was selfish in doing that. I did not want to leave her, so I asked him to reconsider without fully disclosing everything at first. That was wrong, and I have sincerely apologised many times over.

Matt is not even willing to do a 10 degree turn. The only reason he is even working with me now is because he sees that our child is hurt. He agreed to talk to Si, but he made it crystal clear that any discussions about our children are off-limits and none of her business. That is about as cooperative as he is willing to be in the efforts to make peace.

That was very hurtful, and Matt has not forgiven her for doing that. That is why he wants her to have no contact at all. He feels like if a child can depend on no one else in the world, mums and dads are supposed to always be there, and he thinks she was not there when they probably needed her.

We actually agreed that it would be traumatic for her to lose our nanny. Nanny J offered to move months back, and I kept her in the loop about wanting to check out nurseries. That was until I realised how I expensive they were, and that it would be more cost effective to hire a nanny. I never would have asked her to move, but she offered once again. I am grateful that she did, though. It saved us from having to search for one, and it enables my daughter to have another familiar and stable person in her life to help her adjust a little better. So yes, it could be said that the three of us are the most solid foundation in my children's lives.

Matt's entire argument is that you cannot choose when to be a parent, and he feels that is what Si does. He believes that she was only there for the good stuff or when it was convenient, but he asked me where was she during everything else? In his eyes, she is not a parent or even a parental figure. I do not expect a 180 or anything else from him. Matt has made it known that he is not stepping back from the line he has drawn.
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  #345  
Old 05-08-2013, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BrigidsDaughter View Post
You forget that Si had been told she wasn't welcome at their home or a member of the family when she wasn't speaking to the children. She was probably afraid of what would happen if she did with Matt being so volatile at the time. She was also probably reeling. I know there have been times where my husband has completely shut himself off from me or our son while he dealt with something internally before coming back to the family.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but with Matt threatening a lengthy custody battle, she may have felt it better if she gave him some space. We don't know, since she is not posting here.

FoL - I think Matt needs to fess up to your daughter that he doesn't want Si to live with you guys. He can tell her that his view of family are only people related by blood or marriage and he only wants to live with people who are relatives (except you guys have a Nanny, so that's not really true) or something along those lines.
If I had been told that, I probably would not be running to be around anyone. I empathised with her because I know those words cut deeper than anything. She had been around for 12 years, and being told that she was not a member of the family and banned from our home had to hurt like a bitch.

He talked to our daughter and realised that his behaviour was borderline ridiculous. They made temporary peace, so she could be around them again. Before they made peace, he asked me if there was anything that could like sway his decision? He was unaware that Si had shut them out all that time, and I did not exactly run to present that to him. I opted to keep quiet about that, and he agreed to let her see them again.

Weeks later everything was revealed during a counselling session. How calls went unreturned and how I had to answer questions about where she was and why she was not around, at recitals, etc. He was mad about her hurting my daughter, and from that day forward, he vowed to never let her be around our children again. The next time she was, the first time was a fluke and scheduling conflicts. He had plans with our daughter, the nanny was off, and our son was with me. Our son ended up coming with me to dinner with Si, and we went to her place after. Matt was okay with that. The next day, our daughter was around her. I invited her to lunch with us. That set him off, and we had it out. It was so bad that we were in the same house, and he said maybe five words to me. The only reason he spoke was because he had to go to work. Last week was a bad week.

She has not seen them since the last weekend in April. I am not going against Matt on this again. Working with and not against him is proving to be more effective. He is softening on certain things.

Matt was very volatile, so she was wise to steer clear and give him space. He has calmed down now, but he is still firm in not wanting her around our children. At this point, I am not sure what it will take for him to let go of that. A miracle?

If he tells our daughter that he does not want her to live with us or that she is not part of our family, he better be prepared for whatever comes next. I believe he needs to be honest with her but also be careful with what he says.
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  #346  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:14 AM
Zed Zed is offline
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry I have nothing to offer, I've never been through anything like this.

But my parents began a divorce when I was young, around 11 or so. And with the way things go in my country, it took 10 years to get the divorce settled. And those 10 years were pretty rough on me and my younger brother. Now I'm 27 and I look back at those days and think of what a waste of time, energy, emotions, money, they were. So much anger and lying and shouting in the house during that time. If only Mom and Dad spoke more honestly with each other and without so much ego, things could have been so wonderful now. But instead they each live in their own separate homes feeling lonely...

Sigh...
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  #347  
Old 05-08-2013, 04:41 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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So matt told si to fuck off and get out of your lives, and now you're both saying that she abandoned your children because she didn't stalk and harass you guys in order to get to see them after being told to fuck off and get out of uour lives...by matt?

And si is the one who abandoned the children?

Correct?

If you repeat that ovet and over, do you eventually start to believe it? Like drinking that Kool Aid got all those people into Heaven, right?

Stop me when i'm done.
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  #348  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:20 AM
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FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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So matt told si to fuck off and get out of your lives, and now you're both saying that she abandoned your children because she didn't stalk and harass you guys in order to get to see them after being told to fuck off and get out of uour lives...by matt?

And si is the one who abandoned the children?

Correct?

If you repeat that ovet and over, do you eventually start to believe it? Like drinking that Kool Aid got all those people into Heaven, right?

Stop me when i'm done.
I do not believe anything. I cannot say what is right or wrong or even what I would do in that situation. I can only be empathetic and try to be neutral. I removed myself from the middle, so I can see it from both sides. If I was in her shoes, would I want to be around someone like that? No. If I was in his shoes and someone had hurt my child, would I be that forgiving and just hand them over a second chance to possibly do it again? No. That is what I did, though.
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  #349  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:58 AM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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It was my understanding that you didn't cut things off with her. Until after an blew thing off both you and the children. Sorry for the misunderstanding. My opinion stand if she was still your partner she would have spoken to you to at least find out hoe the little one were.
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  #350  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:13 AM
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It was my understanding that you didn't cut things off with her. Until after an blew thing off both you and the children. Sorry for the misunderstanding. My opinion stand if she was still your partner she would have spoken to you to at least find out hoe the little one were.
Our relationship ended on 30th March. Everything happened 23 days prior, so it was still fresh. The events leading up to the end and her behaviour towards my children were what ultimately made me make the decision to end it. Not returning calls and just making no effort at all for them. I reached out to her every day in some form, and it was ignored.

After our break-up, I understood that she was still upset with him and then me, but there was no excuse while she and I were still together. I expected a call at the very least. Matt left but never stopped talking to them. Our nanny played a huge part in that because he wanted nothing to do with me, but they had it worked out. He only talked to me but once every couple of days on the second week, but he talked to our daughter every day he was away. I know at some point they had been on Skype, too, so he had seen them. Matt was upset enough to not only offer me a divorce but he presented me with a model parenting plan to avoid a long, contentious battle. That was when it hit me that it was not just an empty threat. He was serious. Even with all of that, he did not let his anger towards me disrupt the flow of parenting.

I was pissed off at Si, but I wanted to give her a chance to fix it, so I forgave her. Matt knew she had been distant, but I did not tell him just how distant. I kind of presented like she had been busy with work and caught up in her thoughts. He thought she was being distant because of him, how he had treated her, and what he had said, so he later apologised. I did not tell him about the unreturned calls, missed recitals, ignoring the outings, and all that. That much I kept to myself because I knew he would never let her be around them if I had told him. He was not going to be fair. After talking to our daughter and my reassurance that there was nothing more he needed to know, this was how he ended up issuing a pseudo apology last month. The apology issued was solely for the purpose of allowing Si to continue to have a relationship with our children and nothing else. He apologised for how he handled the situation. These were the only two reasons he went along with it. Once Matt found out the full story in counselling, his forgiveness went out the window.

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 05-08-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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