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  #11  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:08 AM
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Hope all goes well at dinner.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:24 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Could start here.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

Quote:
My ultimate goal here would be to end up with two equal wives, all of us living in one house.
Could ask yourself what a "harmonious polyship for the next year" could be.
Could ask them what THEIR goals or idea of a "harmonious polyship" could be.

Because you are not a solo player who gets to pick for all. Do you all even want the same open relationship model? Could stop to check in on that when you meet.

Maybe you want a polyfidelitious 3 people only circle. Maybe "open" to them means something else. Calibrate your vocab and get on the same page.

You have that as an ultimate goal... but could also ask THEM what THEIR ultimate goals are. Maybe the goals all match -- maybe not so much. Not the time to hold back -- spill it all on the table and see what you all have there. What lines up and what does not.

Pitfalls? Try here:

The biggest pitfall to me is thinking this is already the polyship. It isn't. This is "My wife and cheating affair partner are willing to entertain ending the "2 person marriage" and ending the "2 person cheating affair" and talk about creating a new relationship called a "3 people polyship instead."

This is just you all figuring out the details of the new offer on the table. Nobody's signed up for it just yet.

You may come to find in negotiation that "nope... nobody can agree on the mission or shape of the potential 3 people polyship. We cannot agree on how we want to be together and how to handle conflict resolution or meet everyone's needs in a way all can feel mostly happy."

So then the conversation has to change topic. "3 people thing NOT gonna fly. NOT compatible players. NOW what?"

You may find you need to meet several times to cover all that ground. Could take the time to do it well -- since you have to mend trust and start building a new trust.

I hope for your sake it works out. But even if it doesn't -- could thank them for being willing to entertain it to begin with. Not many people get that chance after an affair.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-05-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2013, 11:20 AM
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Great links (Wagner, Labriola) and advice, Galagirl!
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyfore View Post
Do you think you and your wife should be addressing the issue that or issues that caused the cheating? If this isn't addressed it could cause more problems between the two of you in the future. it isn't all that easy to say "I cheated and now the ladies accepted it and we're all doing great"... There is a reason that you cheated and adding another woman isn't going to solve the reason for the cheating.
You are absolutely correct. If you go back to my original post, you'll notice I mentioned seeing a therapist...
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2013, 11:23 PM
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GalaGirl,

Thank you for making these observations. I'm already running into some of the issues you mentioned... but also, much less than I anticipated.

Since I came clean on Tuesday, my wife and I have probably spent more time talking about relationship issues than we have in the previous 25 years combined. So even if the triad doesn't work out, my wife and I are both committed to improving communication.

My wife is obviously still very much hurt and in pain. But she insisted on meeting U as soon as possible. U is simply stunned that she still gets to see me, and she wants to meet my wife as well, so she agreed to the meeting. We met for dinner last night in Fort Worth.

Dinner went like this: The first five minutes everyone was awkward, then came 15 minutes of small talk, then about the time the food came out, all the feelings came pouring out. The two women talked nonstop for two hours. I think I may have said 10 words the whole time. By the end of dinner, the two were starting to be friends, and we even went for a horse-drawn carriage ride to continue the discussion. It was supposed to be about 20 minutes, but as I said, the women were discussing the situation, as budding friends now, and that carriage driver was getting an earful, and I think the carriage ride went about 45 minutes.

The particulars that came out of last night, in no particular order, are:

1) that while my wife is still very hurt by the lying, she was actually not bothered by the sex.

2) While my wife is not sure yet that she wants to remain in the relationship, she is intrigued by the suggested arrangement and agreed to give it a year before she made a final decision.

3) U is having difficulty grasping the concept of a romantic relationship involving more than a couple. She does not quite see this as a... triad? but more as two couples sharing the male. We are trying to get her to understand that while she and my wife may not have sex, they do need to develop emotional intimacy with each other.

3a) Neither woman is bi or is interested in sex with the other. But we spent considerable effort emphasizing to U that if this relationship is going to work, the two women would need to build trust and emotional intimacy. We had a difficult time convincing U that 'emotional intimacy' was not code for lesbian sex. She finally grasped the concept after a texting conversation with my wife this morning.

We have a lot of work cut out for us, but I'm encouraged by the progress so far.

Last edited by stonebreaker; 05-05-2013 at 11:47 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2013, 03:21 AM
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Just keep in mind that what is good for the goose is good for the gander, too. Be prepared -- your wife may want a boyfriend, and your girlfriend may want another boyfriend besides you. I hope you don't intend to "forbid" that (as if you could).
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2013, 05:14 AM
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I would also add that you might want to slow down. Your wife just found out about the affair six days ago, and though she was insistent about meeting the other woman, she is grieving. Grieving for the change in her marriage, grieving over your affair, and everything else. She probably wanted to "size up" the competition.

I am glad the meeting went well, but there is a lot to do. Your wife is hurting, and I do believe counselling is needed. While you may have high hopes of your wife and girlfriend (?) being the best of friends in say six months and eventually living together, wounds have to heal. Sometimes an apology is just not good enough. Believe me when I say that it is an adjustment to go from a mono relationship to having a poly relationship. Communication is a constant. Be prepared to deal with timing issues. There are only 24 hours in the day, and they do not stretch. They each have needs. Both relationships have needs. It becomes a balancing act. Impossible? No. Challenging? Yes.

If I were you, I would look into counselling like now. Your wife might not realise it due to it being clouded by hurt, but some trust has been lost. No one likes being lied to or cheated on, and I agree with Nancy about needing to address the reasons for you stepping outside of the marriage.

It is not just I cheated and colour me poly now. Have you always thought you were suited to be ethically non-monogamous? If so, did you ever present the idea to your wife, or did you assume she would not go along with it?

Sending you good luck and well wishes. Consider yourself lucky. I do not know many wives who would be okay with any of this so soon after the revelation of an affair. I hope you know that you have a good thing at home, and she needs to be revered and treated as such.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonebreaker View Post
We are trying to get her to understand that while she and my wife may not have sex, they do need to develop emotional intimacy with each other.
For some V arrangements, the best some metamours achieve is a respectful relationship. I wouldn't force friendship on either of them - they may be biting at it right now, because it helps alleviate the guilt, and because it may help them feel like it'll help them stay in this relationship with you if they go along with everything that's suggested (especially in U's case - she may just be so gobsmacked that she's "allowed" to still be in this relationship that she'll go along with anything).

Once the crazy emotions die down, they'll see if they can REALLY be friends. If they aren't able to, it isn't something you can force. A respectful relationship might be the best you can ask for - that they can talk to each other when needed (schedule conflicts, emergencies, etc.), and that they respect each others' needs enough to not trample each other - that they'll work together and with you to get everyone's needs met.

I say this from the perspective of having a metamour that REALLY REALLY wants to be close ("sister-like") with me, and I'm not feeling it. It sucks to hurt her feelings when she wants a closer relationship with me than I want with her, but you can't force those types of relationships. I can't, anyway, and I'm thankful that my partner isn't pressuring me to do so.

Good luck to all of you!

Edited to add that I had the same confusion U did at one point - when my partner insisted that his OSO "loves me" and wants to have a "close relationship," I instantly equated that to, "Oh no, she's in love with me." We since cleared that up, but boy did that lead to some interesting discussions.

Last edited by YouAreHere; 05-06-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2013, 02:36 AM
stonebreaker stonebreaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I would also add that you might want to slow down. Your wife just found out about the affair six days ago, and though she was insistent about meeting the other woman, she is grieving. Grieving for the change in her marriage, grieving over your affair, and everything else. She probably wanted to "size up" the competition.
You are not wrong there. Today was a 180 degree about face from both women. I spent an hour on the phone reassuring U and all lunch plus a couple of hours at home reassuring my wife that no one is being pushed aside. I'm finding that every word out of my mouth is being examined for any subliminal meaning and if there is an opportunity for offense, it is being taken. I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop, but holy crap, I'm exhausted!

Yet despite the fragility of the situation, my wife referred to U as her little sister. Sincerely, not sarcastically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I am glad the meeting went well, but there is a lot to do. Your wife is hurting, and I do believe counselling is needed. While you may have high hopes of your wife and girlfriend (?) being the best of friends in say six months and eventually living together, wounds have to heal. Sometimes an apology is just not good enough. Believe me when I say that it is an adjustment to go from a mono relationship to having a poly relationship. Communication is a constant. Be prepared to deal with timing issues. There are only 24 hours in the day, and they do not stretch. They each have needs. Both relationships have needs. It becomes a balancing act. Impossible? No. Challenging? Yes.
Again, you are right on the money. My wife has emailed the therapist I talked to the other day about scheduling a session. After each of us has a few individual sessions, I expect this will turn into relationship counseling. Probably will include U at some point as well. I like my therapist. A lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
If I were you, I would look into counselling like now. Your wife might not realise it due to it being clouded by hurt, but some trust has been lost. No one likes being lied to or cheated on, and I agree with Nancy about needing to address the reasons for you stepping outside of the marriage.
No, the trust issue was a point from day one. But it is mitigated by 25 years of faithfulness. While I did slip, and that hurt must be healed, 25 years of faithfulness does count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
It is not just I cheated and colour me poly now. Have you always thought you were suited to be ethically non-monogamous? If so, did you ever present the idea to your wife, or did you assume she would not go along with it?
No. This is a new thing for all of us. We are actually fairly conservative Christians, and U is a Fundamentalist Christian. At some point after the poly solution occurred to me, U made the comment that polyamory did not fit her Christian morals. I did some research, and it turns out that there is no clear stricture against polyamory in the New Testament. What is definitely there, however, is Mark 10:11-12, which states that divorce, for any reason other than infidelity, is wrong. Period. I am guilty of infidelity. So if my wife finds she cannot accept the situation, she can divorce me if she chooses. I will not divorce her. As well as the teachings in the Bible, I simply do not believe divorce is the correct solution. In this case, divorce will simply lead to more hurt and pain for everyone.

I have been giving a lot of thought to why polyamory seems like the correct solution for this situation. Let me give you guys a quick background on the situation and see what you think.

I started dating U when I was in 5th grade. We would go to choir every Wednesday. We moved away as I was entering 8th grade. We stayed in touch through letters and an occasional visit through high school. I asked her to marry me when I was 19 and she was 18. She was not ready and turned me down. She felt that she could not deal with 4 more years of a distance relationship (I could not convince her that we could attend the same college - I was going to Rice University, she didn't think she could get in). So she broke up with me.

I met my future wife when I moved to the new town in 8th grade. We did not date until we were in college though. I guess maybe she caught me on the rebound from U. Anyway, we dated for 3 years, including a couple of break-ups. I finally decided things were not going to work and broke up with her for the final time. She then informed me she was pregnant. In the ensuing years, she admitted that she saw that I was going to break up and deliberately got pregnant. Being who I was and how I was raised, neither abortion nor abandoning my girlfriend was an option. My personal ethics allowed either adoption or marrying my girlfriend. I chose to marry my girl.

Fast forward 24 years. I guess we've had a normal marriage. But event after all this time, I am still angry about having the choice of mate taken out of my hands. It shouldn't matter at this point. But it does. I'm basically satisfied with my marriage, just still angry about not getting the choice.

So I find U on facebook. She lives about 90 miles away. You already know what happened.

I must have wanted to get caught. I used the same pin on my phone as our bank account. I get caught.

In the ensuing discussions with my wife, I admit how angry I am at her forcing me to marry her. To clarify, I am not actually angry at how my life turned out. She is a good person, and my marriage has been basically happy. But for some reason I don't quite understand, it still matters that I did not get the chance to choose my mate. I guess my wife feels guilty. She offers to step out of the way and let me have U. Well, that doesn't feel right either. 24 years is a long time, and we have built a strong relationship. If she chooses to divorce me, then fine; but I do not want to divorce her.

Somewhere the option of having a relationship with both women comes up. This is the correct solution, I feel it in my gut. I do not divorce my wife, but I also have the choice of choosing my mate. The option of choosing U somehow makes all the anger and resentment of getting forced to marry my wife, go away. Completely. If both women are willing to give this a shot, then this is the correct solution. Now I just have to figure out the morality of the situation.

As of right now, everyone has calmed down, and my wife is yakking on the phone with U. I don't understand it. This afternoon she was in tears feeling that U was replacing her. Now, she has stated that no matter what happens, she will be friends with U. I don't understand women.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Sending you good luck and well wishes. Consider yourself lucky. I do not know many wives who would be okay with any of this so soon after the revelation of an affair. I hope you know that you have a good thing at home, and she needs to be revered and treated as such.
There is still a lot of hurt and pain. But things sure look promising. I have the best wife in the world. I know it, and I'm bending over backwards to make sure my wife knows I know it.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2013, 03:08 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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You didn't have the choice "taken away" from you. You chose to marry "your girl" instead of not marrying her. You had a choice, and you chose.

I bet your therapist(s) would say the same thing.
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