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  #21  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:28 AM
newguy newguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkxvlv View Post
Re-read the post newguy

Re-read the post newguy! Not that he needs me to defend him, but where did you even get the idea BoringGuy was attacking you? If he was attacking anyone is was the OP. He only referred to you to say that while you (newguy) don't think the OP is a jerk, WE (the group) don't actually know if he's a jerk or not because we (the group) don't have nearly enough information to judge that.
Got it....BoringGuy please accept my apology...after I re-read the post, I realize that "OP" meant original poster...not me. For my misunderstanding, I apologize.

Thanks kkxvlv for politely suggesting I pull my head out of my ass...I needed it! And you are right about what I was trying to say...
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:44 AM
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Cloudy Cloudy is offline
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Wow! I must say I didn't expect such a response to my humble little post. Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to read and respond!

Now for some responses: (gotta figure out how to quote posts....)

@CharlotteSometimes:
I agree that emotional reactions don't equal jerk, but the root thoughts and mindset behind those reactions can. I guess that's more what I'm worried about. Also, excellent questions; ones I've posed to myself many times, but haven't yet been able to answer.

@Natja:
Oh, lesbian sex is definitely sex. I just ENJOY when my girlfriend has sex with other girls. As for her being lured away, that's very much a possibility. She's absolutely gorgeous, basically the proverbial unicorn. And while I'm not ugly by any means, I see myself as pretty average. So yeah, I think there's a worry that she might realize she could do better, as unrational as that may be.

@turtleHeart:
Excellent question. This has happened a couple of times, but with me present and without. To answer.... sort of. I try my best to support her bisexuality, but those times where I'm not included I feel.... left out. Sure, I want to play with the other girl too, but also I want to share that experience WITH my GF.

@BigGuy:
1. Thanks! I agree. It's something I usually do well.
2. Good point. Maybe that's what I'm doing...?
3. Another good point. But I haven't figured out yet where said jealousy is coming from.... More to think on...

@GalaGirl:
Fantastic response! Thank you for the links. I've already done a lot of reading, and I'm always looking for more. I am, after all, a ttl n00b.
You also brought up the point about my GF having female lovers without me is a problem. I responded about that above^^^ The other possibilities you mentioned ring true to some extent as well.
As for preferences, I again agree. My GF and I have a strict rule that we do NOT tell one another what the other can and cannot do. Rather, we make our positions clear and let the other decide. Usually, we abide by the other's wishes. But in a way, this is the problem here. I've voiced my preference: let's date other girls and that's all. She then voiced her preference: let's date other girls AND I date other guys. So what do we do when those preferences don't align just right?
As for your suggestion, that's exactly where we are right now. Everything is on hold until we both figure out exactly where we stand and why.

@WhatHappened:
Yet another great question..... It depends. In a couple cases, the "women in question" felt exactly as they did before we had sex. We're still good friends that just happened to hook up one time. It's no big deal, and it's great.
In another case..... well, I'm not quire sure how she felt because she doesn't talk to us anymore. She and my GF hit it off famously at first. My GF thought things were proceeding in more of a romantic direction. The other girl apparently didn't agree. She ran away screaming, basically. Without the screaming part.
In another case, the other girl told us afterward that she regretted it because she doesn't like to sleep around, even though the threesome was her idea.
So, I guess to answer your question: it varies. All my GF and I can do is be clear about what are intentions are and are not. If the other girl secretly doesn't agree or whatever, there's not much we can do about it.

@Inyourendo:
I appreciate your perspective! Thanks! It's strangely good to know I'm not the only one with issues about this. However, you kinda make it sound like I have a choice: either acquiesce, or lose my GF. I'm really not convinced that's the case. She and I have been monogamous (at least romantically) for over two years. We could very well simply remain that way.

@newguy:
Ha! There's a term for it! I find that amusing. But seriously...
Wow, I admire your guts and candor regarding what you told your then fiance. I don't think I could have a similar talk with my GF. More likely would be a talk to just remain monogamous. But again, I'm glad other share my experience.
And yeah, my GF and I are still having discussions about (giggle) a one-penis-policy. Meanwhile, I'm working on getting to the root of my issues.

@Vinccenzo:
At last a response I completely disagree with, though perhaps that's because I was unclear in my original post.
TO women? Women aren't sexually potent? Women can only get pleasure from a man? They're easily discarded and replaced?
I'm sorry, but these points so completely fail to ring with me that I'll not even bother responding. I don't mean to be dismissive, it's just simply not the case with me.

@Dagferi:
Mostly answered in my response to turtleHeart. However, first, thank you for your honesty about me quite possibly being selfish. I did ask for no sugar coating, after all.
But to answer your question, I would.... maybe.... be ok with that. But only begrudgingly so. My preference is that I would also be involved in the relationship, preferably equally. If you want to call that "get[ting] your kicks", so be it, though I certainly wouldn't describe it as such.

@kkxvlv:
Bingo was his name-o. I very much agree. In my opinion, there is no such thing as right and wrong. There is only Hurtful or Not Hurtful. I wasn't meaning to ask about if my actions were "right", but rather if they were well founded and reasonable. Though I suppose it could come across as asking for right or wrong.
As for your hypothetical situations, yup, that's right where we are now: trying to figure out those maybes.

And at long last.... @BoringGuy
Sigh.... I could do without the sarcasm, though based on your rather large number of posts (over 1,000), I'm guessing it's based on frequently hearing n00b idiots like me stumble their way through trying to convey their views on this new and, if you're like me, radical topic. I would more appreciate, instead, that you educate me and point me in a better direction, instead of insulting me.
And that's just the point--I'm completely new to this. So new, in fact, that I technically haven't even started yet, at least as far as an actual poly relationship goes. So forgive me if I don't use the proper terminology, or if I step on a few poly verbal taboos. And if nothing else, at the very least, I'm reading, seeking advice, and analyzing and educating myself BEFORE I take this leap. Maybe you're right. Maybe I have a warped view of polyamory, and I have it all wrong. Guess what? That's why, in my OP, I asked, "Am I just not cut out for polyamory?" I know no one here can answer that for me. But being here is part of a process to discover the answer to that question and others.
Though you are right that it's impossible to tell if I'm a jerk or not just from one post. Who knows? Maybe I hate kittens. And who doesn't love kittens?


Now. Since my OP apparently left some confusion as to what exactly I'm looking for and why, allow me to clarify:
Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I envision an emotional, romantic, and sexual relationship between myself, my current GF, and another woman. However, unlike BoringGuy's description, I don't view it as another girl joining my current relationship, but rather the formation of a completely new relationship. Sure, my current GF and I would most likely be more familiar with one another, but I would still want all three of us to be equal, rather than a twosome with an appendage.

As for why...... Looking back at previous relationships, and looking at myself now, there has always been something.... missing? ....not quite right? It wasn't until my GF and I had our best threesome that I realized this. I say the "best" not because of the sex, but rather because of how the three of us interacted. We cuddled, we talked, we laughed, we kissed... It seemed equal. And it felt AMAZING. It felt complete. And I had never felt anything like it.
From a practical view, it just makes sense to me, though this seems to be where the "share" thing came from. I am heterosexual; my GF is bisexual. We are BOTH attracted to girls. (fecking duh, I know) So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing something together that we have a common interest in. In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across. And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.
And so as for her being with other guys, that's not something we can share. I'm just not attracted to men.
Now, all that said, I also agree that I have some jealousy and insecurity that needs to also be addressed, but I hope all that paints a more succinct picture of what I'm thinking.

-Cloudy
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:47 AM
Eponine Eponine is offline
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Looks like sharing is really important to you. Now, here's my question: suppose you meet a new girl and you two are attracted to each other, but she and your GF aren't attracted to each other. Would you continue this new relationship independent from your GF, or would you rather give it up because you can't form a three-way relationship?
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Last edited by Eponine; 05-04-2013 at 07:40 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:20 AM
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Cloudy Cloudy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponine View Post
Would you continue this new relationship independent from your GF, or would you rather give it up because you can't form a three-way relationship?
Hmm, not sure... I think, provided my current GF would be ok with it, that I still pursue the new relationship, but it would have to be very much as a secondary relationship, and I would want at least a friendship between existing and new. This arrangement would definitely not be my first choice, and it's very possible it wouldn't fly at all. And even if it did, I don't think it would cure that "itch" I mentioned in my previous post.

(ps: finally figured out quotes)
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  #25  
Old 05-04-2013, 06:17 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
Now. Since my OP apparently left some confusion as to what exactly I'm looking for and why, allow me to clarify:
Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I envision an emotional, romantic, and sexual relationship between myself, my current GF, and another woman. However, unlike BoringGuy's description, I don't view it as another girl joining my current relationship, but rather the formation of a completely new relationship. Sure, my current GF and I would most likely be more familiar with one another, but I would still want all three of us to be equal, rather than a twosome with an appendage.

As for why...... Looking back at previous relationships, and looking at myself now, there has always been something.... missing? ....not quite right? It wasn't until my GF and I had our best threesome that I realized this. I say the "best" not because of the sex, but rather because of how the three of us interacted. We cuddled, we talked, we laughed, we kissed... It seemed equal. And it felt AMAZING. It felt complete. And I had never felt anything like it.
From a practical view, it just makes sense to me, though this seems to be where the "share" thing came from. I am heterosexual; my GF is bisexual. We are BOTH attracted to girls. (fecking duh, I know) So when we are with another girl, we aren't sharing HER, we are sharing the EXPERIENCE of being with her. We are doing something together that we have a common interest in. In some ways, it's like two people playing golf together, or singing together, or underwater basket weaving together, or whatever else they have in common. I realize that's an overly simplistic view, considering we're talking about a person, but I hope that gets the idea across. And I think it is this shared experience that always makes my GF and I feel so good about our relationship after a threesome.
And so as for her being with other guys, that's not something we can share. I'm just not attracted to men.
Now, all that said, I also agree that I have some jealousy and insecurity that needs to also be addressed, but I hope all that paints a more succinct picture of what I'm thinking.

-Cloudy
Hey Cloudy, I'd like to suggest that, yeah, rose colored glasses are in effect here. Triads (three people all in romantic relationships with each other) are not impossible, but much more often what you end up with is a vee (one person in a romantic relationship with two different people) when the third person forms a stronger/different bond with one of their new partners than the other. No problem though, vees are fine and great! Errrr, unless, of course, you had your heart set on a triad, in which case the partner who's "left out" tends to take it really hard.

Alternately, a triad does begin to form, but then one of the members of the preexisting couple gets way more jealous than they thought they would once the desired state of equality begins to manifest (usually a lot of this has to do with spending way too much time together way too quickly), and the newer person just ends up getting emotionally tugged around until they can't deal any more and they leave.

BoringGuy is abrasive, but you're spot on about his reason for responding that way -- we've ALL seen way too many sad and messed up stories that start the way yours is. Good on you for taking the time read, talk, learn, and think things through before proceeding further.

My advice (based on a long poly dating history and a ton of reading peoples' stories on this site) would be to:

- Keep an open, flexible approach to whatever new relationship(s) form, don't work with a lot of preconceived notions and ideals and assumptions about what structure is best, and talk things through in a candid, relaxed way with any new person who starts to take an emotional interest in either one of you. If you try to shoehorn any new thing into a particular shape, chances are much better that you'll ruin what you could have had, rather than get what you wanted.

- Accept that this hypothetical new person may have other interests/desires, or other partners of her own, and that that's not necessarily incompatible with forming a serious relationship with one or both of you (it's a common, and imho seriously hypocritical and problematic, thing for folks in couples to want a new partner to only be with them).

- Understand that triads, if you do happen to find yourself in one, are not, in fact, a single new relationship. They are a set of relationships, and it's just good to keep in mind all of the complexity that entails versus your current state of just needing to maintain one healthy relationship, which I imagine feels complex enough most days:
A-B
B-C
A-C
A&B-C
A&C-B
B&C-A
A-B-C

Good reads:
http://www.morethantwo.com/coupledating.html
http://davidlnoble.com/so-somebody-c...nicorn-hunter/
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2013, 06:29 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
Hmm, not sure... I think, provided my current GF would be ok with it, that I still pursue the new relationship, but it would have to be very much as a secondary relationship, and I would want at least a friendship between existing and new. This arrangement would definitely not be my first choice, and it's very possible it wouldn't fly at all. And even if it did, I don't think it would cure that "itch" I mentioned in my previous post.

(ps: finally figured out quotes)
See, one of the problems with this way of looking at things is this -- not all relationships work out. Let's say you DO find someone who's into both of you, and the three of you spend a year all dating each other. By that point you're deeply in love, it's all equal and happy and copacetic. And let's say THEN one relationship fails while the other is still going strong. Let's say your newer gf and your older gf break up. What then? Do you bump one of them down to "secondary" status so that you can find another woman with whom to attempt to form a triad with the one who stays "primary"? All in an attempt to cure the itch for an ideal?

Another problem is this -- in the above-quoted paragraph of yours, if you laid that out to a woman who was into you and your gf, but maybe a little more into you, what you'd basically be saying is this: "I will give you the option for a serious, primary relationship with me of the kind you might want to pursue, but only if you pursue the same type of relationship with my gf, we're a package deal." This is how you set yourself up for failure and heartbreak all around -- by making somebody feel pressured, even a little, to give something a go when it might not be what they really want, because that's the only deal that's on the table, and they don't know much about poly either so they assume it's reasonable and feasible.
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  #27  
Old 05-04-2013, 06:35 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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For the record, I'm not trying to bash your hopes and dreams. I held the same idea in my head when I was newer to poly, that an FMF triad was my ideal. I'm not trying to say, at all, that it's bad of you to want this -- just that it's important to look carefully at the reasons you might want to let it go.
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  #28  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:10 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
And at long last.... @BoringGuy
Sigh.... I could do without the sarcasm, though based on your rather large number of posts (over 1,000), I'm guessing it's based on frequently hearing n00b idiots like me stumble their way through trying to convey their views on this new and, if you're like me, radical topic. I would more appreciate, instead, that you educate me and point me in a better direction, instead of insulting me.

I expected you to do that. Predictable, etc.

Quote:
Please let me know what you think. Don't sugar coat anything. I want real, honest, educated responses. Thank you for reading.

-Cloudy


You asked for it, you got it. Be careful what you wish for; you might get it. ...then again, you might not.

So when you say something, you don't really mean it? when you say you don't want something sugar-coated, you really mean you DO want something sugar-coated?

Last edited by BoringGuy; 05-04-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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  #29  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:18 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by kkxvlv View Post

The way I see it BoringGuy is a lot more boring than people imagine. He's not trying to be clever or attack people. He's just a man who is tired of people not saying what they mean. In this case, I think you meant to say you didn't think the OP's feelings about this situation make him a jerk. Instead you've made a judgement of his entire character as a jerk or not based on one short post.
Thank you! Most people misunderestimate me. But not you.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 05-04-2013 at 07:21 AM. Reason: blows kisses to hyperskeptic!!! <3
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  #30  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:25 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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AnnabelMore has given you some great points Cloudy and I really hope you read the links she suggested, it is a shame you bristled a bit at Boringgys posts as just a few days ago Boringguy posted this exact (and I am not exaggerating) scenario of a new person coming onto the boards and putting forth their great idea for a totally equal triad as if no one has ever heard of it before and sadly.....we have indeed seen it 1000 times, some of us have experienced triads and trust me, the first few awesome sexual experiences do not make up for the complexity and added stress of a triad, eventually the awesomeness of the threesome fades as well and you'll eventually want to have more dyad (twosome) sex. Think it feels awful being left out when your 'one' partner has sex with someone else? How about when two partners leave you feeling that way?

Trust me, it doesn't do to have a hearts and flowers idea of triads.

Keep reading both here and on other sites and you will see the same stories all over the place. Look at the 'Dating and Romance' section of this site and see all the non responses to the posts from couples 'Looking for our third' and you would realise that all these people are here trying to do the same thing you want, with little to no success at even getting a single person to respond to them.

Finally, I think you might want to separate your g/fs bisexuality from her Polyamorous nature, many couples come seeking out the Hot Bi Babe because the female is bicurious or really wants to connect with women. The triad is their way of doing so whilst still feeling safe and protected within the couple because the man is involved too. However, someone who states that they are Polyamorous and wants to be able to see both men and women would unlikely be comfortable with being confined to one gender because it is more than just about sex for her, it is about the freedom to make connections freely.

HTH,

Natja
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