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  #11  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:51 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I don't think that because we're already privileged in so many ways, we have to ignore things like couple privilege. There is pretty much always something worse in the world.

It kind of reminds me of when people are, for instance, fighting for animal rights, and others go "what about human rights?" Well maybe the same people are also fighting about human rights. But not everyone can be fighting only for the most important thing even if everyone agreed on what the most important thing is.

I'm not going to pretend I don't have couple privilege just because single people happen to have shelter and water privilege. To me that would amount to saying "Yeah, I get advantages you don't have. But you get to eat and drink and have a roof over your head, so shut up". Nevermind that I, too, get all these things.

Privilege is what we have and don't realise we have because we'd need it taken away from us to see what it's like not to have it. That's how I see it. And so it's good for awareness to be raised, because you can end up being a dick without meaning to, because you don't realise you're being treated with special rights, and you just assume it's normal. Doesn't make you a bad person, just realise that other people don't have these things, and make decisions accordingly.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:43 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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I've heard a lot about priveldged lately and to me its a show stopper. Slap the word on someone else and they have no retort.

So what? We all have priveldges. It means nothing to me but a way to shut someone up who really is just trying to make their life work and figure some shit out. Is it suppose to, in some way keep us from becoming and being what we naturally are and made into in our culture? It just seems a petty way to turn a perfectly good discussion between a group of diverse adults into a university social work class full of 20 somethings. I guess it just reminds me of my wake up call in uni into realizing my own priveldges. They're realized. Moving on. Lets talk beyond he known please!
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Last edited by redpepper; 04-25-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:55 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Ok then... How about oppression and marginalization? We'll choose one person to be the captain of the Oppression team, one to be captain of the Marginalization team, and then we'll order a panel truck full of cream-pies and settle that dispute like adults who live in a society with access to panel trucks full of cream pies are SUPPOSED to do.

Or, we could write a manifesto instead.


Que es mas macho? Pie fight or manifesto?

Last edited by BoringGuy; 04-25-2013 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Inside joke
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:31 AM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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BoringGuy: Never been called a bitch before in a non-consensual session, or a consensual one for that matter, so that was a first... So inflammatory.... but you did use mighty fine punctuation in that sentence, which I enjoyed. Nice Job! I hope you got your ipod sorted and were able to scratch your itch, so to speak.

Tonberry: How does one lose couple privilege? By being single? I have always really enjoyed being single, and don't feel like I have lost privileges because of it. Breakups make me sad because I lose somebody that I love; is it the privilege of loving someone that you're talking about? I just don't understand the basic premise of it - we are all privileged, and need to stop using it as some kind of judgement that is meant to alienate or point fingers.

RedPepper: It seems to be growing in popularity, and I wonder why nobody seems to be talking about the privileges of single people, the privileges of secondaries, etc. Everyone IS privileged, and.... moving on

I just don't get the division and judgement that seems to be arising with increasing regularity around couples.
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2013, 02:53 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
To me, the concept of "couple privilege" has utility in the following way. Let's say that a unicorn hunting couple says they are seeking someone with whom to have a relationship, someone who will be an equal. We see this all the time. Generally, when you begin to delve into things, however, it becomes clear that this "equality" is no such thing, and yet the couple in question is having a very hard time seeing or understanding the ways in which they are not offering, and perhaps cannot offer, equality to their new partner. They are blind to the privileges that society grants them, and that they grant each other, as "the couple" as opposed to "the third". This can apply to people in preexisting couples who are starting new separate, vee-style relationships as well.
Just curious, BP, since I know you spend some time in the Poly Relationships Corner too -- do you see the same pattern I'm describing above when you're there? If so, what would you suggest as alternative phrasing for discussing it?
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2013, 03:13 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
I just don't get the division and judgement that seems to be arising with increasing regularity around couples.
I have no problem with couples. I myself am a member of several couples, and am in love with people who are in couples with other people. In fact, I think that the only real way to have a relationship is as a couple (a triad being, at heart, a collection of various couplings between three people with the added dimension of the various two-on-one dynamics that are not individual relationships in and of themselves... anyway, you get what I mean). What is a couple, anyway? One person relating to another. Poly is just a matter of having more than one coupling in your life, imho.

For clarity's sake, I think what we're all discussing in this thread is NOT couples at all, but primary partnerships.

I also have no problem with primary partnerships, though it happens that I'm not in one myself at present. I value and respect the effort that they take, and the ways that they enhance people's lives.

But.

I get sick to death of seeing people in primary partnerships reaching out eagerly for secondary partners, only to completely misrepresent what they can offer, or offer things that are just so stunted and weird that they're not real relationships at all.

I'm tired of hearing the secondary partners of people in primary relationships say things like:

"I've been trying to go on dates with my new bf, with whom I'm very much in love, but his wife insists on always being present. I just want to be alone with him every now and then -- am I being selfish?"
"I'm seeing both Joe and Jane, who are married, and the idea was that we'd all be equal to each other, but they each read all of my correspondence with the other, and I'm not allowed to do the same, and I've noticed a few other things too that are starting to make me feel really depressed..."
"My gf insists that our new relationship has to be a secret, because otherwise she and her husband would look bad to their relatives... I get where she's coming from, but it's killing me to have to hide all the time. What can I do?"

It's like basic human rights -- things that, under different circumstances we'd all agree only make sense! -- things like being able to be alone with your lover, not having all your most personal writings read by someone to whom they weren't addressed, being able to openly show your love -- just go out the window without a second thought in the minds of some people in primary relationships when it comes to their secondary partners.

I try really hard not to be divisive or judgmental when I read stories that seem to me to have elements of what I'm describing. I don't scoff at the posters and deride them, instead I try to stay focused on what we're all here for -- to help.

But goddamn.

It gets tiring sometimes.

And I can understand why some people begin to get a little abrasive about it, even if I don't agree with their approach.
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2013, 05:50 AM
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Perhaps it would help to realise that being told you have privilege isn't an accusation. If I say that water is wet I'm making no value judgement on the virtues of wet vs. dry, I'm simply making an observation. Similarly, the use of the word "privilege" is not intended to imply that (generic) you have done anything wrong or have deliberately sought out a privileged position, it's just pointing out the fact that in one very specific area and probably through no fault or virtue of your own you're playing the game on an easier setting than is the default for some others.

Last edited by Emm; 04-26-2013 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Missed a word.
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2013, 06:05 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
BoringGuy: Never been called a bitch before in a non-consensual session, or a consensual one for that matter, so that was a first... So inflammatory.... but you did use mighty fine punctuation in that sentence, which I enjoyed. Nice Job! I hope you got your ipod sorted and were able to scratch your itch, so to speak.

es.

It was pretty meh for me too. As i said in the other thread, not everyone is good at faking it.
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  #19  
Old 04-26-2013, 06:22 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
I just don't get the division and judgement that seems to be arising with increasing regularity around couples.

How's this for a reason:

Maybe these couples you refer to did something to earn that judgment. If you are not part of the problem, then what's your problem?

It does not seem to me as if you started this thread to discuss privilege and try to debunk myths or misconceptions about couples and privilege. It seems like this is a thinly-veiled attempt to justify treating "secondaries" as such. Anyone who has read your blog can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with that.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2013, 07:09 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
How's this for a reason:

Maybe these couples you refer to did something to earn that judgment. If you are not part of the problem, then what's your problem?

It does not seem to me as if you started this thread to discuss privilege and try to debunk myths or misconceptions about couples and privilege. It seems like this is a thinly-veiled attempt to justify treating "secondaries" as such. Anyone who has read your blog can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with that.


Are they myths? I don't think so, I think secondary partners have experienced this, I know I have, so I get a bit hacked off at being told, 'everyone has privilege, get over it....' .

Yes, I am sure black people in the US during the Civil Rights era being sprayed with big hoses should have been thankful they were not in Africa?

I am sure white women who were raped and beaten by their spouses legally should have been thankful they were not slaves?

Bisexual or gay people in the west should be grateful they don't live in a country that will whip or kill people for homosexual behaviour?

Rich Saudi women who can't drive without a man beside her should be grateful she is not a poor village girl in Bangladesh?

So that's all right then is it? Let's treat people however we like because they are bound to have some sort of privilege....let's move on...get over it you whiney people, blah blah blah *sticks head in the sand*

Purleese.......

Last edited by Natja; 04-26-2013 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Diz singl women kant spelz....
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