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  #191  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:41 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I agree - stop being the go-between. They are adults, step back and let them act like it. Send your email and tell them to work it out between themselves. Which could be as simple as they both agree to so many days a week and special events (to be handled as they come up), but specifics will be handled between Ry & Si. They don't have to like each other, but they do need to be adults and communicate for your daughter's benefit. Remind them that their behavior toward each other is setting and example for your daughter.

If you want to meet her at a park or such with the kids, while he's at work, personally I think he needs to be ok with that. It shouldn't interfere with his time with the kids, but if he's not going to be around anyway... Again, that's agreements, he and Si really need to address with each other. Someplace there is always some middle ground.

Part of your guys circle of chaos, is that you like to take control and manage the details. Before you were running your lives without listening to his input and he allowed it. Now, you are listening to his input but he is either still relying on you to make the final decisions or you are just taking control out of habit and he is still allowing it. I know from experience, it will drive you crazy to not be hands on the first few times, but it will bring back some balance to your lives. This is their issue, make them deal with it.
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  #192  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:44 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Your situation is really hard. I'm not surprised that you're tired and frustrated with all of it.

The thing of it is that you guys all made the choices together so I don't think it's just for you to deal with the fall out.

I would be very cautious about making far reaching decisions like cutting Si out of your children's lives right now. You are dealing with a lot - the end of a long term relationship, attempts to rebuild your marriage, an impending house move and arguments between your husband and your ex.

That's a lot of grief and pain and stress. Nobody could make good decisions with all of that going on. I would wait. Continue as you have been with the kids seeing Si under arrangement and out of your house. Let Matt deal with it for a while longer - he's been coping for years, he has played his part in creating this situation and you guys are moving thousands of miles away soon anyway.

The only ones in your group who weren't responsible for making these decisions and creating this situation are your children. So - however badly the adults are feeling, you guys as a group have a responsibility to make sure that the children don't suffer a major loss. Why should they lose somebody important to them? They didn't create the situation and they have done nothing wrong.

Plenty of people manage to find ways to co-parent children with folks who aren't the biological parents, who they dislike intensely and who they would rather were not involved. It isn't impossible at all and certainly isn't unusual.

I hope you are able to keep up your exercising and buying of new clothes and anything else that helps you cope.

IP
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  #193  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:01 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
Your situation is really hard. I'm not surprised that you're tired and frustrated with all of it.

The thing of it is that you guys all made the choices together so I don't think it's just for you to deal with the fall out.

I would be very cautious about making far reaching decisions like cutting Si out of your children's lives right now. You are dealing with a lot - the end of a long term relationship, attempts to rebuild your marriage, an impending house move and arguments between your husband and your ex.

That's a lot of grief and pain and stress. Nobody could make good decisions with all of that going on. I would wait. Continue as you have been with the kids seeing Si under arrangement and out of your house. Let Matt deal with it for a while longer - he's been coping for years, he has played his part in creating this situation and you guys are moving thousands of miles away soon anyway.

The only ones in your group who weren't responsible for making these decisions and creating this situation are your children. So - however badly the adults are feeling, you guys as a group have a responsibility to make sure that the children don't suffer a major loss. Why should they lose somebody important to them? They didn't create the situation and they have done nothing wrong.

Plenty of people manage to find ways to co-parent children with folks who aren't the biological parents, who they dislike intensely and who they would rather were not involved. It isn't impossible at all and certainly isn't unusual.

I hope you are able to keep up your exercising and buying of new clothes and anything else that helps you cope.

IP
My grief and pain have been placed on hold. My focus is keeping my children happy and in a stable environment. I will worry about my emotions and my feelings at a later date. The only reason I have stopped right now is because my back is hurting after getting rear ended. I am not in control right now, so anything goes because Matt is handling our children right now. I am sure I will find out after the fact that she wanted to see them, and he shut it down. I am bed right now, so I have no idea what is going on outside of this bedroom.

I agree. We all played our parts in this catastrophe, and our children should not have to suffer. They are or will be soon enough.
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  #194  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:38 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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So sorry about the car accident. Did you go to a doctor?
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  #195  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:37 PM
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You've certainly had your share of stress lately.

As I perceive it, Matt (on some deep down level) felt that his place as a father was completely underminded when Si was in the delivery room. It seems unlikely that he'll ever forgive Si for that, and Ry, on a very deep level, he may never forgive you either. Logically, it may not make sense, but emotions don't always make logical sense.

If Matt and Si will agree to meet by conferencing call (just so it's not in the same physical place), by all means let them do so. I realize there's virtually nothing you can do right now with your back injury. It would be great if Matt and Si would step up and set this up themselves, but I am sure you'll eventually be the one who has to do it.

Obviously it sucks for the kids, and the kids didn't do anything wrong. But from my viewpoint, you're doing your utmost to make things right, and you don't deserve this much pressure either. Reminds me of the old Star Wars scene where the walls were converging. You need some help in getting the trash compactors shut down.

I don't have that much to add. I am just sticking to the position of being on your side.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #196  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:14 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I am already bored with being in the bed. I am off today, but if I had to work, I would go in. We are still going to our counselling session. It is needed. It is hard for me to sit around and be idle. My doctor told me to take it easy. He knows that is not going to happen. He must have missed the lesson where it was taught that health professionals make the worst patients.

I believe some of Matt's issues are exacerbated by his mother. She is the one who called my ex his visible replacement. If you hear that enough, you just might start believing it. Replacement parent. Replacement spouse. "She is being trained to take your place." She has been saying that since day one. Saying things like that does nothing to qualm someone's fears of someone posing a threat. It makes them worse. Who knows what she told him while he was there in March, or what she is telling him now?

I do wonder how deep my husband's forgiveness will extend. Judging by something he said, he is angry over Si being there immediately after the births of both children. As we all know, the first moments between the baby and parents are like those moments of truth. When I looked into my daughter's eyes, I understand the whole plan, and I saw it all in my baby. And both times? No moments will ever be more true than the moments I first looked at them. I was the first one to hold my daughter because I caught her during my water birth. In that moment, everything was perfect and made sense. I was relieved when my son was born. He was my little trooper, and I was happy to meet him. Those first moments are so important bonding wise. I think he expected her to leave with our parents, so we could bond as family. Unfortunately that did not happen, and she stayed and was part of it.

I highly doubt they are going to arrange anything. I think one will try, but the other will drop the ball. I am not doing or saying anything at all. If she wants to see our children, she better text him and ask. I am done playing the peacemaker and being the messenger. I am not scheduling any time for her to see them. I am not going against Matt's wishes either. He does not want her in their lives? Fine. He can tell her, and they can handle it like five year olds or mature adults. It makes no difference to me. I am not arranging any meetings. I am not contacting a mediator. I do not want to hear about it from either side. The only thing I need to know is where my children are and who they are with. Other than that, I am relinquishing any and all control. This is their battle to fight. My children and I are all out of the middle of it.

I have to reduce the stress, and the only way to be impartial to both sides is by treating them the same way and sticking to the facts.
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  #197  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:28 AM
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Re:
Quote:
"If she wants to see our children, she better text him and ask."
That's actually a pretty good solution, it ensures some contact between Si and Matt (or removes the "problem" of Si seeing the kids; I say problem because I know Matt sees it as a problem), and it ensures that Matt will be the one giving direct permission, every time.

Re:
Quote:
"He does not want her in their lives? Fine. He can tell her, and they can handle it like five year olds or mature adults."
It's definitely their issue to work out.

Sorry to hear about the negative comments Matt's mom has made, it sounds like she has really messed with his mind.
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  #198  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:28 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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And what if your daughter wants to see Si? What is Matt going to do then? When will she start resenting her father for keeping her from Si? When I was 7 my grandmother cut my paternal granmother, great grandmother, and great aunt out of my life for no reason (She admitted to that on her death bed). One day, they just stopped coming, from my perspective, and I didn't know why. Of course she also lied and told me they were aunts, so I had no idea that they were my dad's family. I found out 13 years later when I reconnected with my father, that my grandmother had refused to return their phone calls, pretended we were leaving when his family stopped by to see me, and made it so that they'd have to pull in behind her car just to see me for a few minutes. They tried right up until she moved me away to another town with no forwarding address. I missed out on so much with my grandmother. My great grandmother passed away right after I reconnected with my father, I saw her once. And yes, I'm still pissed about it. I can't have that time back, I don't have the memories that my half siblings do. I was jipped and I never forgot them. So if Matt thinks that your kids are too young to remember their bond being forcibly severed by him, tell him to think again. Your daughter will resent him and possibly Si too if she doesn't fight for the relationship and gives up. I hope you have a speedy recovery and I'm sorry that you're going through this. Don't let the counselor and Matt convince you that he never had a say. He agreed to it in the beginning, even if he didn't mean it, he did agree and as far as the law is concerned (at least here in the US) a verbal contract is binding. It doesn't matter what he meant. Maybe you guys really do need to divorce, since he and your therapist keep painting you and Si as the villains. You need your own therapist who cares about you and a mediator more than a counselor who obviously is making you feel worse, not better.
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  #199  
Old 04-25-2013, 03:38 AM
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I suppose Matt should be the one to explain to his daughter why he's not letting her see Si. One hopes he will be honest in his explanation, which would be a tough sell to the young girl.

Of course, a lot is up in the air with the move pending. But it is a shame that now that Si has already been such an integral part of the family, now she has to be put out. Sigh. Stinks no matter how you approach it.
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  #200  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:53 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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This situation is tragic on so many levels. My mother-in-law never hid her dislike. She sent me flowers when the relationship ended. I cannot prove it, but I know she is working behind the scenes and planting little poisonous seeds. He can probably tune her out, but somewhere in the back of his mind, those thoughts are will still be there. I do not immediately process some things, but when I have a minute, I do ponder. I would venture a guess that he is doing the same thing. I can imagine the irrational thoughts. "I bet she is trying to to take my place, so I am going to stop her."

I have no idea what is going to happen if my daughter wants to see her. Matt's not in the habit of lying to her, so whatever he tells her will be the child friendly version of the truth. Personally, I cannot appeal to Matt. My words are falling on deaf ears. He is in counselling by himself to work on his issues with this situation and everything else. If anything, his attitude regarding this situation has not softened or improved at all. He is being assertive and firm in what he wants. He picked a fine time to start.

I guess Matt and Si will have to live with their choices. If she gives up and he keeps preventing her from getting close, they both should know what is on the line. I have no solution and repeating the same things has become redundant.

Our counsellor asks what we both think we did wrong. It is hard to face yourself and be brutally honest. It is not something that makes you feel good in the moment. I am my biggest critic. Everything I admitted to was from my mouth.

I do not want a divorce. He brought it to the table after everything shot to hell. It was not an empty threat. He consulted with legal counsel and was ready to remove himself from this poly family that he no longer wanted to be part of. It would have been a clean break due to active pre and post-nups. If we were to ever divorce, we did not want to be fighting over finances and spending years in and out of court.

Now custody. That is a different story. We have two different ideas, and they clash. I know in custody disputes, anything goes. A technicality could cause him to get full custody or our children could be split up. My sister was awarded custody of two out of three children. The father got the daughter, and she had the two sons. A year later and she is still fighting. Nothing about the legal system is cut and dry. That is a gamble I am not sure I want to take unless it is the last resort. Divorce is not something I believe in, and it would not make my problems go away either. I would rather fight for my marriage, work out the issues, and give it my all before I call it quits.

Nothing about this situation is easy. I contemplated holding off on moving. Even that has repercussions. My child is looking forward to going to that school. I am proud because she is excited about getting an education. That is a parents dream. I am not going to break that promise to her. We let her have a say because we want her to know we value her opinion. She would be upset if I dashed her hopes because of all the adult drama. She told her grandmother, "I am going to big school!

We decided years ago that we did not want to raise our children in London. We looked at schools here, but nothing stood out to us. First impressions are everything to us. If the person who answered the phone and my initial questions was off-putting, it left a bad taste in my mouth. If you are too busy to return my call, that was off-putting. If we are trying to get a feel for the school and the staff, I need to know that I can reach someone if there is a problem. Overall we were unimpressed.

Maybe we do need to reconsider.
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anger management, bisexual female, blame, break-ups, breaking up, changing loyalties, children, co-parenting, competition, coupledom, demanding partners, divorce, from poly to mono, making excuses, married and polyamorous, poly co-parenting, poly to mono, primary/secondary, therapy, triad fallout, trust, vee dynamics, vee vs. triad

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