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  #151  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:05 AM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Hi Tonberry,

Your post today inspired me to read your entire blog from the beginning, initially because I was having a boring day, and pretty quickly I became hooked on the unfolding narrative. Wow. What a saga.

I'm so sorry to hear that your divorce has dragged on for years and looks rather hopeless. I know you have consulted French and Canadian lawyers--but have you tried a US lawyer? Specifically an immigration lawyer? Someone who can help figure out a way for you to live in the US and apply for eventual US citizenship? It seems like you are getting nowhere with the French lawyer.

Have you considered applying to become a student at a US university? That might be a way to live in the country, and you said earlier that you wanted to pursue studies.

As for Raga...yeah, he's deliberately blocking your divorce proceedings. Despite the fact that it would indeed interfere with his own ability to have a relationship. But trust me, honey, he's not dating anyone. He has ISSUES.

This is a guy who is still actively angry about something his teacher told him when he was 8. Yes, the teacher was very wrong, and yes, Raga was traumatized by the event. (For those without the patience to go back to read the stuff on this thread from 2010: when Raga was 8 years old, a boy in his class who had been in foster care committed suicide, and the teacher told the class it was because the boy "had no friends." Raga was consumed with guilt; there were no grief counselors, and the children did not get to go to the funeral.) Now, certainly, that would indeed be devastating to a child, and I can see how that would haunt someone for the rest of his life.

BUT, Raga (by his own words) blames this incident for his lifelong depression. He blames not just this incident, but this particular teacher. Even though surely the school as a whole, i.e. the principal, had as much to do with the inadequate response as the teacher. And rather than seek help for his depression, or set out to help kids in foster care, etc, the only thing Raga thought might help would be to maybe send a letter to the teacher telling her what a "monster" she had been 20+ years ago. (I don't think he sent such a letter; he was just venting about his depression back in 2010. But, red red flag.)

Perhaps Raga has been good about treating his mental health since your separation. But, given the fiasco over the divorce papers, I think not. And I think, Tonberry, that you don't need to feel too guilty for hurting Raga. For Raga, everything is about HIMSELF. It's not about a childhood classmate who died; it's about a horrible teacher who made HIS OWN life miserable.

A big thing I learned in coming to terms with my own ex: huge insecurities often go hand-in-hand with a hugely self-centered outlook. For example, when Raga was depressive in 2010 he said something like: "I am a worthless husband and no one likes me not even the cat," etc. No self confidence, sure; but also, it's all about HIM. The cat's not just a cat with normal cat behavior; she's part of the whole world hating him. (Sorry to hear about Lumpy, by the way).

A lot of things you have written here struck a chord with me, Ton. Particularly how you remember Raga complaining that he's never been lucky in love, no one will ever want him, etc, WHEN YOU WERE RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM LOVING HIM. That is EXACTLY what my ex was like when he and I discussed non-monogamy. He would say that he liked the idea of us both being able to date other people, but then he would whine that no girls liked him, no one thinks he's sexy, etc. I thought I was doing a good job of supporting him through his insecurities--but in fact it was all about HIM, he never considered my feelings at all, or appreciated how much I cared for him.

Another weird thing about Raga: the way he became so obsessed with J, his female coworker whom he wanted to date. The poor woman had no idea you two were in an open marriage; Raga invited her over to dinner with the two of you and she had no idea it was a date. Rather than explain his situation, Raga did odd things like send her gift baskets, inquire into the details of her dating life, and agonize for weeks over whether to send her an email declaring his love for her. (I thought you did an amazing job of supporting Raga in all this, Ton.)

Anyway...I'm not sure what my point is here. It doesn't do you any good to wallow in regret for marrying him (which perhaps I am not helping with).

Seamus sounds really awesome and wonderful. I would never have guessed that it would work out to have a "boyfriend" that you only met in person for the first time 3 months into an already-serious, long-distance online relationship! I guess I don't know everything

Other things that resonated with me: the way Raga's friends and family shunned you. I got that too. The mutual friends I shared with my ex never asked for my side of the story; I never badmouthed my ex to them; they just shut me out. I don't settle for the explanation that that's "just how break-ups work." My theory is that it has to do with punishing women for violating the socially accepted rules for conducting relationships.

I really appreciated being able to read your whole story going back for years. Lately I have been trying to follow the blogs section of this forum more, since I have lost all patience for the problems in the Poly Relationship section.

Good luck with everything. I'll state again that I urge you to seek the help of a US lawyer.

In the meanwhile, can you take advantage of France's healthcare system and see a therapist? In particular I think you should talk to someone about the issues with your parents.
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  #152  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:38 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Meera,

Thank you so much for your message. As I'm sure you can understand, I've been stressed out lately and it helped a lot to read what you had to say. I think it's great that you read the whole thread and got the big picture, because of course there are details I forgot over the years, and it's also good that Raga himself had posted messages, as I think it helps seeing both sides a little bit more.


There are lots of things I regret doing or not doing in the relationship, and I do believe it's pointless in the end. It happened. I can learn from it and grow from it.

What you said about everything for Raga being about him resonated so much. I had flashbacks of all these times he got upset about things that had nothing to do with him. And I remember clearly all those times I was sad or stressed but it ended up being about me needing to comfort him because he was despairing over how he had made me sad or how he had hurt me. I felt like I couldn't be vulnerable or weak, no matter what happened.
I remember the time (I probably mentioned it in the thread" I was sore and he wanted to have sex, and I told him I was too sore, and he said "I don't mind" and carried on spreading my legs and so on, and I started crying, and he made it all about him, and about how mean I was not to let him have sex.

I was shocked when I was cut off of his life, but in hindsight, I should have known. There have been people before, the second they said something he thought was mean to him (one friend for instance said he "was being emo" when he was complaining on Facebook), he vilified them and never talked to them again, despite having been friends for years. He said they "were not really friends".

When Seamus visited in Canada, Raga told him a story, with bitterness and anger in his voice, about how once the company he worked at got a bonus but he didn't get any of it because he was part time, and people were still telling him "great about the bonus!" without regard to the fact he wasn't a part of it. Then another story about how he had been refused a promotion, then asked to train the woman who did get the promotion.
Both events had happened before I met him. At the time he told Seamus about them, it must have been at least 7 years, maybe more.
I remember thinking "wow, you've got to learn to let it go".

And I think it's a big thing. He needs to learn to let it go. Honestly, I think you're right and he hasn't. I was hoping that after the break-up he would have had counseling and gotten better, and that he'd be happy, but I went to his Facebook page recently to get some pictures of Lumpy, and his wall was littered with bitter statements. Many of them about me (I don't think I mentioned him once on my wall after the breakup was final. I just don't think about him unless I'm dealing with the divorce). One in particular surprised me a lot, and I think completely supports your point: it was about how he wanted to be happy and celebrate New Year's, but it was also the anniversary of the break-up and it made him feel so horrible, and he didn't put it past me that I might have done it on purpose.
By which I think he meant "she must have broken up with me on New Year's because then I would never be able to celebrate it again and it would always remind me of her" and I guess I would rub my hands and laugh maniacally?
I was so surprised. First that the day still reminded him of the breakup after 2 years and depressed him (I read the message in February after Lumpy had died and I was searching back for pictures. My own New Year's Eve/New Year's Day was completely devoid of memories of him or of the break-up), but since he's apparently single, I can imagine celebrations in general reminding me of that.
But most importantly, the idea that I picked what date to break up with him, that I planned to make it so it would hurt him every year, that I must be now sitting at home and thinking "Haha, I bet he's hurting right now!"... Yes, he does make things all about him.

I guess I'm ranting a bit, but somehow it was a big revelation to read your message. I always though he was just too sensitive, and that's probably true, but the lack of empathy he's expressed during the breakup and afterwards shocked me, yet it makes sense now. I was hurt, he was hurt, it was messy. But he's never going to get over it this way. Even if he did meet someone, he would be starting the relationship with all this baggage instead of dealing with it...
I really hope he can get past all the issues he's struggled with, and be happy. But I need to stop feeling responsible for everything that went wrong, and to stop being guilty for his sustained unhappiness. He was unhappy before we met, and I shouldn't have expected or been expected to solve problems that existed before me.

I think the option to find a US lawyer and spend time in the US without divorcing, at least until the divorce makes actual progress, definitely has merit. I will talk to Seamus about it and we should be able to find a US lawyer to help us and figure out the best course of action.

Seamus is indeed great! I find that we work so much better together. With Raga, we had a way of stressing out each other worse when under stress, and any problem became worse and worse. With Seamus, there has been a lot of stress, and being apart so much is very hard, but even when we don't know what to do and we feel we can't take it anymore, we know we're strong enough and we'll eventually work through it.

Yesterday when I talked to him, he got very frustrated with the whole situation. I got a bit upset and he reassured me that the situation is the problem, although he does wish I would be a bit more proactive. He thinks I'm too nice, too worried about hurting Raga's friends or family, and that I should harass them more. That they hate me anyways, "because they're stupid", to quote him, and so it's not going to make their impression of me worse, and things might get done.

I've tried to be more proactive today. I stayed in touch with my lawyer, who suggested the embassy. I already contacted the Canadian Embassy, without an answer so far, and I'm waiting for it to be late enough to call the French Embassy in Canada. I also contacted my grandfather, who always said to call him if I needed anything, and I did need someone to talk... I don't know if he can help but he said he'd ask around and see if anyone he knows can help.

I also, as you rightfully suggested, contacted my therapist back from 2011 that I saw for a few months, but then stopped seeing. I do need all the support I can get, and I do have some anxiety issues, including some that get in the way of dealing with the divorce effectively. I'm just too worried about consequences sometimes and I crumble down at the idea of "bothering" some people I still care about.
I also need to see if I can learn from the mistakes I made with Raga. I hated the person I was when I was with him, I would sometimes be cruel or get angry, and while I know the stress of the relationship was at least partially to blame, I want to make sure I know what triggers me, and learn not to go down that road.
And as you mention I do have unresolved issues with my parents. Part of me wants to forgive them and get back in touch and be on good term. Another part feels like it would be "betraying" Raga to forgive them for treating him poorly and without much respect. I'm also scared to try fixing things and just end up getting hurt again.
Whether I build a good relationship with them in the future or never talk to them again, though, I need to know for myself that I'm over it, and that I have dealt with the issues in question.

Thanks again for your message. I'm really glad I kept posting, even if it wasn't too frequent, even if it sometimes seemed nobody was reading. It just wouldn't be the same if you only had the last few messages with no background.
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  #153  
Old 04-24-2013, 04:06 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I've tried to be more proactive today. I stayed in touch with my lawyer, who suggested the embassy. I already contacted the Canadian Embassy, without an answer so far, and I'm waiting for it to be late enough to call the French Embassy in Canada. I also contacted my grandfather, who always said to call him if I needed anything, and I did need someone to talk... I don't know if he can help but he said he'd ask around and see if anyone he knows can help.
Good for you! Time to take the gloves off and take care of business. Stop worrying about their feelings, they sure aren't concerned about yours. Just worry about your integrity. Yes, its messy and will probably bring forth all sorts of hurt and anger, but it's also business that needs to be dealt with. Good Luck!
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  #154  
Old 06-19-2013, 07:53 PM
Ragabash Ragabash is offline
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I thought I'd mention that Tonberry does have the birth certificate, and has for a little while now, and the court date is set for September 9th. I'm sure she was itching to tell you all about it, but just forgot.
Anyways, I'm going back to my honestly quite happy life of the last couple of years away from all the needless drama and count down to the day when I can be free of all the head games and lies. I strongly doubt I'll post on this forum again, but it was interesting to see what was being said about me when people forget that what's said in public on the internet is public. It's been rather amusing.
Bye all!
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  #155  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:50 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Yes, I received the birth certificate on the 2nd of May. I sent it to the French lawyer and a court date has indeed been set for the 9th of September.

I'm still worried something will go wrong in the meantime but hopefully things will work out.

I probably should have posted with the update, but I've been a bit busy lately. Sadly, Seamus's mom died last month and I'm still in the middle of sorting out everything. Seamus's credit score was bad (it's better now) so although he was paying all the bills, everything was in his mother's name (he has his paycheque paid on her account).

I'm still dealing with the mortgages (they were in her name, but Seamus was added to the deeds last year, which I need to prove and it's been a pain of paperwork).
We're done dealing with all the funeral arrangements (that was last month) and dealing with informing everyone, etc. We closed her bank accounts but haven't finished setting payment for the various bills, so although we have some money aside, we're having trouble actually paying it.
It's all getting into place though.

But yeah, I didn't really update you guys as a result. I haven't been very consistent at the best of times.

Raga, everything I typed, I knew there was a chance you might see it. I'm aware of how the Internet works. I wasn't going to refrain from posting in my blog just because you might see it. I don't have any secrets from you, anyways, and you already knew how I felt about things, I'm sure.

Everyone else, I'll update when the divorce is final, but I don't expect to update much until then. I'm still in contact with the US immigration lawyer who should be able to help me with my residency after the divorce is finalized.

I'm just glad this is leading up to some closure finally. I just want to keep going with my life, get a job (a paying one, that is. My translations don't pay) and so on. I'm pretty hopeful about life in general despite still being in a shitty space because of Seamus's mom's death. I lived with the woman on and off for three years and I grew close to her. On top of that, she was a single parent and Sean an only child, and she was disowned by her family, so she was his only family.

Thankfully, I caught a plane in time and arrived a couple of days before she died. So I got to see her, and I got to be with Seamus. I've been dealing with as much stuff as I can so he doesn't have to, so it's been stressful, but I'm still on my antidepressant and anxiety meds, so I'll be fine.

Another reason I didn't post about the court date is that I'm seeing with the US lawyer if I can get divorced sooner than that, in which case the court date is irrelevant. I'll keep you posted on that as well.
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  #156  
Old 06-20-2013, 01:59 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by Ragabash View Post
I thought I'd mention that Tonberry does have the birth certificate, and has for a little while now, and the court date is set for September 9th. I'm sure she was itching to tell you all about it, but just forgot.
Anyways, I'm going back to my honestly quite happy life of the last couple of years away from all the needless drama and count down to the day when I can be free of all the head games and lies. I strongly doubt I'll post on this forum again, but it was interesting to see what was being said about me when people forget that what's said in public on the internet is public. It's been rather amusing.
Bye all!
Oh, Raga, please do pat yourself on the back! It's so good and kind of you to send the document now that it's 2013! After all, Tonberry has only been requesting it since at least December 2011 or even earlier. But oh yeah, you're right, she's the one who must really be into games and drama.



Tonberry, glad to hear you can now move forward with the divorce. My own is proceeding now, too, and feels like a chapter is coming to a close, which will free me for the next ones to follow.
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  #157  
Old 06-20-2013, 02:17 AM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Originally Posted by Ragabash View Post
Anyways, I'm going back to my honestly quite happy life of the last couple of years away from all the needless drama and count down to the day when I can be free of all the head games and lies. I strongly doubt I'll post on this forum again, but it was interesting to see what was being said about me when people forget that what's said in public on the internet is public. It's been rather amusing.
Bye all!
Yes, Raga, it's all about you...
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  #158  
Old 06-20-2013, 07:10 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Oh, Raga, please do pat yourself on the back! It's so good and kind of you to send the document now that it's 2013! After all, Tonberry has only been requesting it since at least December 2011 or even earlier. But oh yeah, you're right, she's the one who must really be into games and drama.
In fairness, it's "only" been a year: I first asked for the birth certificate in May 2012. Before that (May 2011 to end of 2011) I was trying to get Raga to file for a Canadian divorce, as I had been told I couldn't do it, not being a resident, and then (end of 2011 to February 2012) after he told he me had filed, I was calling weekly to check if they received anything (they never did. I asked again in September 2012 and nothing had been filed at all then either).

After that I decided to ask for a French divorce. My first attempt to get a lawyer (back in the end of 2011) failed as they refused me the judicial help, due to counting Raga's income as mine, and therefore deciding I could afford a lawyer on my own (which I couldn't, being on welfare).
My second attempt was more successful and so I first asked in May 2012 for the birth certificate specifically.

I wouldn't want to sound dishonest by claiming I'd been asking for it since 2011, even though at this point it's really a minor detail in the big picture what exactly I was asking for and not getting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Tonberry, glad to hear you can now move forward with the divorce. My own is proceeding now, too, and feels like a chapter is coming to a close, which will free me for the next ones to follow.
Definitely. I'm so looking forward to putting it past me and just forgetting all about it. At this point I'm not really upset or bitter about anything, I just want it to be over. I think we'll both be better off once it is.
Glad to hear that your own divorce is proceeding. I would never have imagined they would be such a pain! I mean, at this point I've spent more time trying to divorce than being married before our separation. It's insane.
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  #159  
Old 06-24-2013, 01:13 AM
Flowerchild Flowerchild is offline
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Just a quick.observation: you said your husband seems happier now that you've found other relationships. Are you sure he's monogamous? One of the concepts we've talked about in our poly group is partners who want to be "half-boyfriends," or, in your case "half-husband." When you're poly, your first relationship is with yourself....so even if you're only with one partner, you're never really monogamous. Perhaps he feels less pressures, less obligations only having to be available to you part time? I'd so, lucky fit :-)
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  #160  
Old 06-28-2013, 04:02 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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A positive update: I've started filing for divorce in Nevada, first alone, but then after I contacted Raga he joined in so that we can file together and get it over with.
As stressful as it's all been, I'm glad that it seems to finish on a happier note of us working together to get it done, even if it's because we both want it over with, and not due to us being friendly again or anything like that.

I'll keep you posted on how the divorce goes.

The reason for not pursuing the French divorce - although it's still an option if the Nevada one falls through - is that I've been told that depending on the judge, the 2 year separation period that's compulsory might start only at the court date, which is September, and which would make the divorce take 2 more year.
Sure, the best-case scenario for the French divorce is it being done on the court date right away, but the worst-case scenario is pretty bad, so I've been exploring other options for the past few months, including this one.
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