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  #41  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:56 PM
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StudentofLife StudentofLife is offline
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I have no doubt that there are many kind and helpful people here, willing to donate their time and expertise to help newbies. I have been lucky enough to talk with some of them. I also know the world is too full of self-entitled douchecanoes, wanting only what they want when they want it, and damn the consequences. I'm sure this is a source of frustration and irritation for those who can see the wrecks ahead, and ID the type of canoe too.

There are also newbies who truly have the best of intentions, who are willing to listen, to learn, to work, to wait for the right time to act, to admit their mistakes and make amends when they screw up. There are couples here who have less than typical reasons for wanting to be part of a loving triad, who have motivations other than hot bi babes and starry eyes. It's my impression that we newbies tend to be all lumped together in the same waiting room, even though we don't all belong there.

For those of us trying to do it right, being mocked, ridiculed, chastised, and shamed for daring to want what we want can feel off-putting. It's just my opinion, but those newbies who do want to behave in way that benefits everyone equally are probably the ones who will not respond by being "huffy and indignant". We will spend hours searching our motivations/actions for what we did wrong, what we said that was so offensive to the group, how we can correct the problem, and then, sadly, when we realize that nothing we say or do can seem to make things better, we give up and go back to lurking, trying to glean what we can without further stressful debates.

The best way I can sum it up, in my opinion, is that this site is a rich and valuable resource with so much to offer, and it makes me genuinely sad that so many new people probably back away because they simply can't deal with the feeling of being a wobbly newborn in a world of experienced racehorses. I'm not intending to place blame. Just noting that the loss of new voices who might mature into something truly valuable is just that--a loss to the group as a whole.

You can rip my words apart now, but the chances are slim that I will try to debate you endlessly. Just keep in mind that you might be proving my point, better than I ever could.
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  #42  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:02 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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Well, talk about a snotty holier than thou retort! Perhaps you've been here too long and have no been indoctrinated.

I'm open to people that want to learn. I was new here too, and believe me, I got more than an earful as did DH when we joined. However, rather than taking offense that things weren't said all super sensitive and careful like, we listened, we gave more information to explain our situation better. There are times the advice given us is to completely from another's POV that they wouldn't see anything BUT their way and their POV. Those we ignore and move on. The point is there are lots of ways to do Poly, so sure newbies ways may be incredibly valid. They may just not give enough info. That rap of 'it's personal!' often has people filling in blanks ourselves. Of course, just having more than one relationship is not poly. It's being non monogamous and if you aren't being poly but say you are, yep, there will be calling out on things that are non monogamous, cheating and etc. In HOPES that poly is what you are reaching for and might be able to achieve.

TL;DR If you don't want unvarnished truth from people, then ask your mother, not strangers on the net.
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  #43  
Old 04-16-2013, 05:57 PM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post
Well, talk about a snotty holier than thou retort! Perhaps you've been here too long and have no been indoctrinated.
I thought the reply from SoL was balanced and fair, and didn't point fingers of blame. It certainly wasn't 'snotty' or 'holier than thou'.

The reaction you're showing is ironic - you expect to be able to post up when you think people are wrong, and do it in the most direct, least compassionate way possible...and then expect them to thank you for it.

But if people try to correct you on something...they get a pissy response. Proves my point - nobody, whether newbies or experienced enjoys that sort of tone.

It all depends what your goal is. If it's truly to help people on here, then working towards finding the best way of expressing your point so that people actually pay attention is beneficial - otherwise you are wasting your efforts in typing a response at all. If it's to feel smart and superior...well carry on.

Although that said, my initial response wasn't really aimed in your direction anyway...I can't recall reading anything I thought was too offensive from you in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixtoria View Post
TL;DR If you don't want unvarnished truth from people, then ask your mother, not strangers on the net.
Again, it's not what you say, but how you say it.

Yes, we are all adults here and nobody needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and protected from the truth...but all too often 'unvarnished truth' is another way of just being plain rude and offensive.

Then when people complain, the protagonists all scream 'you can't handle the truth! We here are all truth tellers and if you don't like it...leave!!'

Many times, the newbie will leave...but that doesn't actually contribute to making the forum a better place to be. It just means that the same old ideas get recirculated, and no fresh air is allowed into the musty room.
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  #44  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:56 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Wearing my mod hat:

Please remember that infractions occur when name calling occurs. Some of the posts here are skirting on the edge of that. We have added a new guideline that if continual posts by a person skirting on the edge of name calling continue, that is also infractionable (is that a word ).

Discussing what is frustrsting in general is great, but please remember not to personalize your posts. If you feel the need to personalize something then PMing that person is how to do it unless you are able to keep your tone and words civil. Taking a break to think about how to say something is sometimes a good option also.

Thank you all.
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Last edited by redpepper; 04-17-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:33 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Re (from Vixtoria):
Quote:
"If you don't want unvarnished truth from people, then ask your mother, not strangers on the net."
Well that's ironic; one's mother is often the last person in the world who would give one gentle advice about polyamory. The point is, some people don't have people they can talk to about polyamory IRL, so it looks like their choices are strangers on the net or nothing.
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  #46  
Old 04-17-2013, 02:36 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
Nycindie, thanks for proving my point. Someone says something you don't like and your response is 'WTF are you talking about?' This is exactly what I was talking about - it's possible to have a discussion with someone where you both disagree and both state your position without it turning into an aggressive slanging match.
What point? When I wrote WTF are you talking about, I was truly puzzled and the way I heard myself saying it (in my head) was in a very quizzical and calm tone, with no aggression. Y'know, like "What the fuck...?" Well, it's probably impossible to write it again and not be misconstrued again. Suffice it to say that I was not engaging in an "aggressive slanging match," especially since I don't even know what a slanging match is. What does "slang" even mean in context of a "match?" Who would I have been in a match against? The whole idea of a "slanging match" makes no sense whatsoever to me. Is it a contest in using slang words?

I had responded to Castle's comment about unicorns with a clarification of what the term means and you got all defensive and hypercritical for some reason, and I said, "Huh? WTF?" I think that the only point you are proving is that you like to start arguments with people for no reason. But, whatever floats your boat.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #47  
Old 04-17-2013, 07:47 AM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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Sorry, but that argument doesn't wash.

You can't say 'but the tonality in my head was nice as pie' when all I have to go on is your words on a screen.

If someone says 'what the fuck are you talking about?', that is not a calm, relaxed friendly tone. But don't worry about looking if you can improve how you speak to people - much easier to blame me and carry on as you are.
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  #48  
Old 04-17-2013, 10:11 AM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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It's hard to see this particular thread going any place good from where it is now.

In any case, the OP's own story has moved in quite a different direction. I think it fair to say the discussion on her more recent thread shows a different side of the community on this forum.
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  #49  
Old 04-17-2013, 01:36 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
Sorry, but that argument doesn't wash.
I'm not arguing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
You can't say 'but the tonality in my head was nice as pie' when all I have to go on is your words on a screen.
But I did. So you are incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
If someone says 'what the fuck are you talking about?', that is not a calm, relaxed friendly tone.
You are incorrect again. Imagine finding something strange and you don't know what it is. You pick it up, look at it with a surprised expression, and say, in a relaxed and friendly tone, "What the fuck is this thing?" If your imagination is not capable of envisioning that kind of scenario, then there is nothing more I can explain to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
But don't worry about looking if you can improve how you speak to people - much easier to blame me and carry on as you are.
Not worried, not blaming. Why would I do either of those? This is just an online message board, silly. Why get your knickers in such a twist? Good luck!
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 04-17-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-17-2013, 02:04 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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NYCindie is from NY City. New Yorkers cuss. It can seem aggressive to people from other areas.

"Slanging match" might be a common idiom in a different geographical area.

We are all here to ask for help, or to attempt to help. Assume positive intent.
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