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  #31  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:14 PM
Manifestiny Manifestiny is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Make the call. Not a FUN all to make, but this is not healthy for anyone like this.
Thank you GalaGirl. So much. I get it...there is a choice to be made here. It is incredibly difficult to be in a state of doubt about my intuition in general...and make a decision.

To answer your question...what i want is to have some peace. I see how we could work things out through compromise and boundary setting...but my wife refuses to participate in conversation that nurtures this. I am hearing that she doesn't want to be poly, and i am willing to respect that. I surrender to the fact that being poly, i mustn't know what it's like for someone who is mono. I am willing to try to understand...in order to honour the commitment to my marriage. It doesn't appear that my wife is willing to try and understand me...at least at this time.

So, i don't really feel that i have a choice at this time. Perhaps the 4th option that you provided has already happened. However, i don't see that as a product of personal flaw...but as a failure of the institute of marriage...because time spent trying to work things out is at the core of my commitment...at least what i thought was at the core of my commitment...to my marriage.

And this is my central pondering point at the moment. Completely reflecting on the cultural meme of marriage...and realising how deeply seeded it is in our psyche. When i asked my wife yesterday why she thought we got married...her quick response was "because i have been bred to want a perfect husband that truly loves just me"...which was preceded by "women have been bred that way for 1000s of years". I get that...i have degrees in Anthro and Sociology. I also get that men normally yell and scream and punch to get what they want or they just take it forcefully...they have been doing that for 1000s of years...however i don't believe this inheritance is worthy of our future. We can repattern our world. We can make it anything we want. We don't have to be slaves of our past. These are my core beliefs...and perhaps my wife doesn't share them. I see this as an interesting thing to talk about for the rest of our life together...she sees it as horrible conflict.

Maybe the choice has been made by something greater than all of us.
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:21 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Thank you Ry. I appreciate your reflection so much. I wish i had that sort of truth around me more! Yes, lessons. What would life be without them. I know we can be better parents...and better people...apart. I am coming to terms with that. I will be ok...and in the long run will be healthier and happier! And i only want the same for my wife. And my gf. And all the beings in the world.
And sometimes that is what it takes. I know divorce is incredibly painful, but by continuing to stay in an unhealthy situation, you are hurting yourself, your wife, your girlfriend, and even your children. Children are very perceptive, and they can sense things even when you try your best to hide it.

I would suggest trying to keep things amicable and work with your wife as best as possible. Nasty divorces and long drawn out painful situations do not benefit anybody. If anything, they help resentment to build and multiply. Custody battles hurt children more than they help them, and while they might not understand completely right now, it will have an impact on them later on in life. You want them to look back and think, "My parents loved me enough to put their issues to the side and work with each other to help me have a happy life." My friend said it best about her and her ex-husband. "We were a horrible couple when we were married, but we are damn good parents to our children." They are. Their daughters are well-adjusted, bright young ladies who are destined to go on and do great things. I attribute that to their parenting and being able to put their wants to side in favour of their needs and best interests.

Is your wife seeking support either from a forum or a poly-friendly therapist? Resistance is not all that abnormal. Especially if she has not went through the stages of grief pertaining to your marriage. I went on a quest to understand how the mono person feels in these relationships, and when I tell you it shattered my heart to listen to them, I was fighting tears. I had no idea how much pain they felt, and it hit me hard. I have a better understanding and a new level of respect when they say, I am hurting and feeling pain unlike anything else. I cannot imagine crying myself to sleep at night or feeling like I am not enough. I cannot imagine wondering if someone is going to leave me for someone they think is better. Those are some of the fears they have, and it was one major reality check. Just as you do not understand her beliefs, she does not understand yours and why you feel the need to love more than one person. There is nothing wrong with either of you. You are who you are, and that is perfectly okay.

Sending hugs your way!

-Ry

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 04-15-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:38 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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her quick response was "because i have been bred to want a perfect husband that truly loves just me"
Oy. If "exclusive" is the core of what she wanted from marriage why did she agree to Open to begin with?

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I am willing to try to understand...in order to honour the commitment to my marriage. It doesn't appear that my wife is willing to try and understand me...at least at this time.
Could accept that and honor your committment then and deal with the other part in the fullness of time when wife is not all het up and not able to take things on board. One thing at a time here.

I know it is hard to feel, but the the choices seem pretty clear cut here to me.

If that's the current goal you have? Could cut ties with the GF. Tell her you don't want to string her along -- since she's already leery of "games." But right now with problems in the marriage you can't be a solid BF to her. It's not kind to her to keep her hanging. Perhaps the most loving thing to do is to set her free.

Until you do lose the GF? Wife's not gonna talk to you about working anything out. If the bottom line is that she doesn't want to BE in polyship, there's nothing here for her TO work on if there's a GF in the picture.

Choose your goal, then align your behaviors, thoughts and feelings toward that outcome. You still might not arrive at the conclusion you hope for, but at least you are shooting for the target rather than going about aimlessly. Try to increase the odds of success and getting the outcome you seek.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-15-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:12 AM
Manifestiny Manifestiny is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Oy. If "exclusive" is the core of what she wanted from marriage why did she agree to Open to begin with?
This is the hardest thing that i am working through because it activates my resentment toward her.


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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Until you do lose the GF? Wife's not gonna talk to you about working anything out. If the bottom line is that she doesn't want to BE in polyship, there's nothing here for her TO work on if there's a GF in the picture.
I stopped seeing my gf recently at my wife's request. After some counselling she decided that it was selfish of her to ask that of me...she told me that it hurt but that she loves me anyway...and i could do as i needed. The first instance that my wife and gf communicated...my wife shut down again and stopped speaking to either of us. For months and months my wife was telling me that my gf is lovely and caring...and now suddenly all she says is that she is manipulative...but wont explain why. If she genuinely wanted to be with me...would it be too assumptive to think that she would want to help me understand that i was being taken for a ride by my gf? There's so many possibility...but i can only go with what i get given to work with.

I'm not sure if there's much to hang onto anymore.
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  #35  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:09 AM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by Manifestiny View Post
This is the hardest thing that i am working through because it activates my resentment toward her.




I stopped seeing my gf recently at my wife's request. After some counselling she decided that it was selfish of her to ask that of me...she told me that it hurt but that she loves me anyway...and i could do as i needed. The first instance that my wife and gf communicated...my wife shut down again and stopped speaking to either of us. For months and months my wife was telling me that my gf is lovely and caring...and now suddenly all she says is that she is manipulative...but wont explain why. If she genuinely wanted to be with me...would it be too assumptive to think that she would want to help me understand that i was being taken for a ride by my gf? There's so many possibility...but i can only go with what i get given to work with.

I'm not sure if there's much to hang onto anymore.
Your wife only did that because she thought that was what YOU wanted. She knows that your girlfriend makes you happy, and that is a threat to her because she is doing something that she cannot. How did you act when your relationship with your girlfriend ended? Were you sulking, sad, or just like going through the motions of life while dealing with your heartbreak? How did your wife act then? Was she the same as she is now?

Is it possible that your wife is seeing something in your girlfriend that you cannot see because you are caught up in NRE? Sometimes you cannot explain why you feel the way you do. I know I cannot from time to time. Like I just figured out why being poly makes me feel selfish. It took the longest for me to get to that point of discovery.

Is it possible that she said something that your wife may have taken the wrong way or taken out of context? I find it interesting that your wife went from saying she was caring and all this to she is manipulative. What happened? Did you leave your wife to go tend to your girlfriend because she was having an emotional meltdown? Have your wife and your girlfriend talked alone recently? If so, what came of the conversation? Where did this whole playing games thing come into place? I do wonder what your girlfriend meant by that.

-Ry
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  #36  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:55 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I stopped seeing my gf recently at my wife's request. After some counselling she decided that it was selfish of her to ask that of me...she told me that it hurt but that she loves me anyway...and i could do as i needed.
To meet what need? The need for her to think of herself as "being the nice one, I'm not "the bad guy" here?" Or the "Short term solution so I don't have to deal with it til later?" habits? Then later comes and it is even bigger?

Quote:
The first instance that my wife and gf communicated...my wife shut down again and stopped speaking to either of us.
Hard to demonize someone you get to know?

Quote:
For months and months my wife was telling me that my gf is lovely and caring...and now suddenly all she says is that she is manipulative...but wont explain why.
Cuz if she doesn't want to be the bad guy and doesn't want you to be the bad guy, the default has to be the GF?

Maybe don't bother asking WHY anything at this juncture? Could maybe accept there's things to cover later and go with "first aid" first? Maybe at this time focus more on WHAT and HOW to get to the goal, if the goal is marriage repair. WHAT needs to be done to repair, and HOW do we set about achieving these things?


Quote:
If she genuinely wanted to be with me...would it be too assumptive to think that she would want to help me understand that i was being taken for a ride by my gf?
That assumes a healthy, fit person on the other end.

She sounds broken to me. You expect broken person to tend to you in a logical way? You are broken and upset too... but of the two, sound healthier.

Maybe you weren't taken for a ride at all. Then it is just chasing shadows putting energy there. Focus the energy on the goal at hand -- is it still marriage repair?

Quote:
There's so many possibility...but i can only go with what i get given to work with.
Yep. Very true.

Quote:
I'm not sure if there's much to hang onto anymore.
Your call to make.

If you choose to be with broken wife, be with broken wife KNOWING that she's broken and not much is gonna make sense out of her for a while. On some things she's just NOT the guy to aid you in YOUR process because it's triggering and keeps her in the hamster wheel rather than moving it forward.

You may need to sort out your feelings/grief over breaking up with someone ELSE.

You sound like you are still trying to assess what's the best path. That's ok. Keep sorting... take a time out to get your own emotional upset to a cooler head place. Maybe your willingness to be with wife is changed? You have to look within to determine where your willingness lies. Only you can know.

But don't take forever and once you are ready to make the call from that level headed place? Make it and align yourself to it.
Hang in there. You can get through this.... one thing at a time.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-16-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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  #37  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:40 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default in relationships, all theories can be tossed out the window

if there isn't full disclosure levels of honesty, if people do not know themselves, or even something as simple as not returning to your spouse or girl friend and promptly admitting mistakes after the fact as soon as you realize what actions you have taken that were wrong or not as understanding as is to be expected from people who care about one another.

I for one know that in any of my relationships, during the biggest arguments or any most emotional points of contention, I made mistakes or thought of ways that things could have been handled better on my part. Whether it is two hours later or two days later, it makes a big difference to put on your grown-up underwear and admit it to your loved ones. It usually takes some honest reflection on everything that went down though.

but when you honestly care about another person, and whatever the argument was over is not resolved, or at least a plan of action that will be taken to resolve it, the only way to resolve it is to spend time giving it honest thoughts. When you are working towards resolution, it takes all parties involved practicing honest reflection of their words and actions. It only takes one person to not do so and all effort is for not.

When all parties involved are honestly taking that self inventory, you all owe it to each other to promptly admit it when you were wrong as not doing so can and does in fact literally drive a person crazy. Psychology is light years behind other sciences and medicines and a lot of it has to do with not recognizing how much environmental situations and dynamics does play a part.

without the practice of honesty and all involved parties honestly reflecting AND returning to admit when they were out of line, it creates a abusive dynamic were one bad seed can and does blow the whole thing up.

it's good to know the difference between jealousy and envy and what it means to you, it may be more important to recognize whether or not your words and actions may be harming the relationship because if it left unspoken it's like a self destruct mechanism

On the other hand, the very people who are being envied actually can and do have a variable effect of that envious persons ability to deal with the situation. Yes it's limited and yes the only person you can control is yourself, but when all of you aren't working together you can bet your ass that can manipulate the entire situation. It can make a person who felt compersion change to envy and jealousy. It can also go from jealousy to compersion without the jealous or compersion feeling person doing anything different, but based solely on the actions of the other lovers.

It can be pulled either way and done in such sly, subtle, or passive ways that nobody can pick up on it and certainly cannot prove or convince themselves or anybody for that matter.

For all these reasons and more, it really does matter who the people are that you are interacting with. Anybody who is not on the same page with you in regards to what honesty is, and it's practice (by reflection) and what and where to draw the line between what is passive aggressive destruction of a relationship and what constitutes subtle ways to build up a relationship, you are only making yourselves miserable. The best advice in the world may in fact only serve to make you more miserable unless all three of you sincerely want it, and want it to happen amongst the three of you.



treat each other with respect or else all advice attempted to be followed could doom you,

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 04-16-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:21 PM
Manifestiny Manifestiny is offline
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
How did you act when your relationship with your girlfriend ended? Were you sulking, sad, or just like going through the motions of life while dealing with your heartbreak? How did your wife act then? Was she the same as she is now?
It hurt...and i reacted poorly at first, being sulky and angry. After a day or 2 i was able to balance myself and not project the hurt...and we also did some counselling together. Very soon, i was having clear conversations with my wife and discussing things. She wasn't really the same as she is now...she had a sense of delight about her, like she had won a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Is it possible that your wife is seeing something in your girlfriend that you cannot see because you are caught up in NRE?
It could certainly be possible. I ask my wife to tell me...but she just won't. I guess that is one of the main reasons i am on this forum...i don't want to be clouded...i want to see things for what they are. So far, no one in my life but my wife has said that my gf is manipulative...and if i am missing something...i want to know what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
Is it possible that she said something that your wife may have taken the wrong way or taken out of context? I find it interesting that your wife went from saying she was caring and all this to she is manipulative. What happened? Did you leave your wife to go tend to your girlfriend because she was having an emotional meltdown? Have your wife and your girlfriend talked alone recently? If so, what came of the conversation?
I really wish i knew. Anything could be possible. The real issue going on is that my wife refuses to tell me. When i go to great lengths to make her feel comfortable enough to have a discussion...she begins with a few words and then just makes comments like "oh, it's not worth explaining anyway"...or "it doesn't matter because you like her anyway". I understand this is a product of feeling like she is not good enough...like she has to compete (she actually tells me this). But she IS good enough...and i don't want her to compete...there is no competition.
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  #39  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:31 PM
Manifestiny Manifestiny is offline
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You may need to sort out your feelings/grief over breaking up with someone ELSE.
I am seeking that support as best i can. It is why i am here on this forum.

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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
But don't take forever and once you are ready to make the call from that level headed place? Make it and align yourself to it.
Hang in there. You can get through this.... one thing at a time.
Thank you. I appreciate what you are saying...however i find this to be paradoxical. Taking things one step at a time might take forever.
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  #40  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:41 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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"oh, it's not worth explaining anyway"...or "it doesn't matter because you like her anyway".
Passive aggressive comments like this piss me off! Dealing with passive aggressive personalities takes re-arranging your brain to get a straight answer and figure out where the real problem lies. My husband is extremely passive aggressive and it was a real eye opener once I started reading up on how to deal with this type of personality. I recognize the signs and am now able to call him on his bs and then adjust my reactions accordingly. I wish I had been clued into some of this stuff 20 years ago, would have saved a great deal of grief.

Here's a good article on jealousy http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html
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