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  #21  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:30 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I feel silly contributing to an argument about what exactly went down, when ostensibly the point of this thread is to help Egoscout, who was there, and who knows what went down, but.......
Than why bother? At the end of the day, it is your opinion, I (and a few other people) obviously have a different definition of cheating.

Natja
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:33 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Than why bother? At the end of the day, it is your opinion, I (and a few other people) obviously have a different definition of cheating.

Natja
Egoscout did post here explicitly asking for help, whether or not the help he is seeking is genuine or not isn't something that people commenting will not (necessarily) be able to figure out. Some people ask because they seriously are looking for help but there are also those who attempt to use the forum as if it were a court that they can manipulate in their favor, as if that justifies or makes the decisions made in real life right as opposed to wrong.

And then their are some forums that are used by authors as a goldmine for creative and innovative source of insight. Not that it happens here, but other places on the web it seems perfectly clear that stories are completely fabricated and when some nobody writes in because they truly care and are trying to help, but if you read the fineprint of what you are agreeing to by clicking "post" you just contributed to some author's bank account.

But anyway, the bottom line is that even those who are genuinely looking for help (and most will take the OP at their word) they are doing themselves a great disservice if they do not try talking to the person in real life where the conflict exists.

Because your right, it is just an opinion and we only know as much as they divulge and to the extent that they are honest about what they divulge.

Even us readers/commentors with the best intentions misread the words that we take people at their word for. There is already a dispute brewing between people who are not involved as far as we know, and even those who chastise others for getting it wrong and added content and making assumptions didn't even get it right (sorry Boring Guy but he didn't say he was doing the math and kept getting the same answer, he got 5, 8 , and 43)

for the most part, people are trying to help or get help, justify their actions to prove they are right and the other is wrong, and in other forums swindle fresh intellectual ideas, at least until they get caught

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 04-16-2013 at 09:35 AM. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2013, 11:19 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
Egoscout did post here explicitly asking for help, whether or not the help he is seeking is genuine or not isn't something that people commenting will not (necessarily) be able to figure out.
I don't think anyone at all is questioning whether Egoscout is being genuine or not, I just take issue with someone going off on a tangent and reading something into his post that was not there, if you read his post it seems HIS feelings are not being validated because his wife (Pol) expects him to see his ex in the way that 'she' sees the ex. For whatever reason, I know not. Either way, accusing him of having an affair seems ridiculously over the top and adding yet another emotional burden onto him that he doesn't appear to deserve.
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But anyway, the bottom line is that even those who are genuinely looking for help (and most will take the OP at their word) they are doing themselves a great disservice if they do not try talking to the person in real life where the conflict exists.
I am not sure whether this is a problem in this case as the present conflict is not between Egoscout + GF it is with Egoscout + Pol, both of whom are members of this forum and can read each others threads. She knows how he feels, he knows how she feels, the problem is, he is grieving for a lost relationship and he feels that he is somehow hurting his wife by NOT seeing things the way she wants them to be seen. FWIW, I read her thread also and to be honest she (Pol) comes across as a bit self centred, insecure and lacking personal insight (fair enough, we all suffer from these things every once in a while, I don't mean that in a harsh way) and I personally think she should be encouraged more to stop trying to influence Ego to see things her way and instead accept that he had a genuine, loving connection that he is still grieving for.
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Because your right, it is just an opinion and we only know as much as they divulge and to the extent that they are honest about what they divulge.
I think you got the wrong end of the stick, I wasn't questioning the honesty of the OP, I take him and his wife at their word, I admit (as is sensible to do so) that there are three sides to every story (and in this case, probably four) but if they are being honest about how they see things all I can do is accept that. However, LR has put forth an opinion, she accused the OP of being a cheater and trying to push his cheating under the carpet, it is that which I feel is an opinion and I personally do not accept that as a definition of cheating. Pushing boundaries? Yes, maybe, being insensitive, yes probably, cheating? No. I think that is reading WAAAAY more into the text than is there (in either thread).
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(sorry Boring Guy but he didn't say he was doing the math and kept getting the same answer, he got 5, 8 , and 43)
Whichever way you look at it, it is quite easy to see who in the relationship is trying to see it from the others POV and who is totally obsessed with feeling victimised (with some lip service being paid towards 'personal growth' and what not). Of course it could just be the way they write but I can't help but feel that very often on this boards and boards in general, that some people find it easier and tolerable to A) Favour a woman's experience over a man's regardless of what she admits to and B) Favour a couplecentric experience over that of the Secondary. See how quickly people are willing to cast this secondary as manipulative and those who have experienced an ex that they saw as manipulative are even MORE willing to see another ex in the same light, even thought as far as we know the only thing the woman did was (i) struggle with converting her relationship from a mono to a poly one (ii) cry (iii) flirt with a man she cared about at work and (iv) be younger and more attractive than the wife (according to said wife).

As a single woman I perhaps see things from a less couple-centric position?

Natja
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:37 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default It was nothing you said Natja

I am foul mood and really shouldn't be commenting, if it isn't obvious, there were other thoughts on my mind when I commented, which isn't helping anything
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:47 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Oh yeah yeah dirtclustit, i didn't repeat the silly math analogy word-for-word because i'm writing on the ipod, so i got it all wrong. You sure got me there. Shot down my whole argument. Obviously, nothing gets past you. It's a good thing you are here to point these things out, otherwise i'd be getting away with crap left and right. Keep up the good work. We can't allow me to keep doing this.

You just scored one point and i just lost two points. Whatever. It doesn't make me any less right than i was before you came along and posted.
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:03 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
As a single woman I perhaps see things from a less couple-centric position?
Perhaps, but i am not a single woman and i'm on the same page with you, pretty much. I don't think it has to do with being single, or being one gender or another. I think it has to do with reading a person's entire post before forming an opinion, and reading what they actually say (notwithstanding repeating analogies in quotes, as if that has anything to do with what actual events took place in real time - do we really think Egoscout actually sat there adding 2+2 and coming up with different answers? Puhleeez peepull...) instead of projecting things we may regret doing ourselves onto someone else's stuff. "i cheated so you must have cheated too, but at least i am honest with myself and serving the consequences. You're NOT. Badbadbadbadbad."

Pfeh.
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:22 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Than why bother? At the end of the day, it is your opinion, I (and a few other people) obviously have a different definition of cheating.

Natja
Why bother? Because I thought it might be helpful, in case people hadn't looked at the original thread in a while, and because I thought that, even if people already have opinions, those opinions might always be capable of being changed by a new voice (isn't that the purpose of discussion?). Or that, if nothing else, Pol (or even Egoscout) might appreciate a more even-handed take on things. I wasn't trying to define cheating, just who screwed up and how, and it seems clear to me that they both did.

*shrug*
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  #28  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:57 PM
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Well, thank you all for contributing to this conversation. It is interesting, helpful, irritating, and hurtful all at the same time. I’m not sure if my husband plans to respond, but I will state where things are at now, which will hopefully not provide fodder for my fighting, but closure for those curious:

I spoke with the gf yesterday, after our therapy appointment when my husband asked me to please let him be with her because she makes him a better person. She reported that her husband did know everything as it happened with Egoscout, but that their agreement was that she could not tell him that. So, she instead told him things like this: “Yes, he knows… He knows some, but doesn’t want to know the details… Don’t worry about what he knows, I’ll handle him. I can be persuasive…” She reported that her husband is not really OK with opening their marriage, but doesn’t want to see her cry all the time, so he said it would be OK. He said that he did not want my husband to know that he agreed to that, however, because he didn’t want him to believe that he was giving “another man permission to have my wife.”

The sorts of answers she provided led me to believe that she not being truthful. BTW at the time, my husband often thought she wasn't being truthful, but was willing to go forward anyway. However, after yesterday, I believe that she and her husband were figuring it out. Unfortunately, the way they did so made the relationship move with roller coaster motions for all of us. Egoscout, too, experienced those roller coaster emotions; he just enjoyed it more than I did.

I gave approval yesterday for their relationship to move forward, and today it has.

Thank you for pointing out my selfishness, my manipulation, my dishonesty. These are things that I will grapple with, but do not plan to do so publicly.
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  #29  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:03 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
I am foul mood and really shouldn't be commenting, if it isn't obvious, there were other thoughts on my mind when I commented, which isn't helping anything
Oh ok, it was just that you quoted me in your response so I thought it was in response to me.

I am sorry you are in a foul mood though.
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  #30  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:28 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by Pol View Post

Thank you for pointing out my selfishness, my manipulation, my dishonesty. These are things that I will grapple with, but do not plan to do so publicly.
I don't blame you, it is hard sometimes to take criticism from people who only know one facet of your personality. When we have problems and are emotional about something, we don't always put our best foot forward, I made many mistakes in my past poly relationships and I have no doubt I behaved badly, I hope I have also learnt from those experiences and will therefore be a better partner in the future.

I am glad you are getting counselling and wish you all the best in the future.

Natja
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