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  #11  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:10 AM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default I hear you MOD

and I would agree to proceed extremely cautiously, but what other option is there but to deny it?

I think maybe I read you wrong, because it *almost* sounded like you were implying that simply talking honestly was dangerous for a relationship.

Which it certainly can be, esp if people do not know themselves or use truth as a weapon to hurt each other. But caring and compassionate truth I believe can strengthen bonds between spouses. And I don't subscribe to the theory that once the door is open that it can never be shut.

For some people, maybe, but poly is so much more of an emotional closeness, like the love of a family, that sex truly for some is not what it is about. And as far as the sex part goes, that opening of the door can in fact be shut, the truth however you are correct, but that isn't a bad door to be stuck open as it is the truth and being able to live your life truthfully that is the real giver of freedom and allows for unheard of levels of intimacy. To be able to share your life truthfully with others is incredible.

that is the point I was trying to make, sorry if I read your comment wrong

Last edited by Dirtclustit; 04-16-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:58 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Quote:
It is a request. He hasn't made an ultimatum, but he has said if we can't forge an agreement, he isn't sure what will happen. He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.
Request is good. It's not a demand.

He doesn't seem to have any idea what type of open relationship model(s) he resonates with.

At this juncture you are well within your rights to say "Need more data. This offer on the table you present me is lacking information."

Again, could thank him for talking to you FIRST.

Could read things together to gather data together and determine what kind of specific offer of open model relationship he's presenting you.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html
http://www.serolynne.com/polyamory.htm
http://www.morethantwo.com/
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
http://openingup.net/resources/free-...om-opening-up/

When you get to the place of giving your Final Word -- could still say "No, thank you. I do not wish to participate. It is not for me. But thank you for treating me well and with respect."

You do NOT have to do things you do NOT find appealing or wanting to do.

Quote:
He wants to be with me, but he wants to pursue his sexual interests.
This could use more data also. What is "pursue his sexual interests?" Where's the agreement line there? Participating in online kink communities? Going to a dungeon to voyeur and nothing else? Or does he mean have kink play partners he shares sex with?

If the details of his offer cannot be clarified?

Then the conversation may have to change from "Can we talk about Open and what that could be?" to "We cannot Open and be together. We are not compatible on this because we want different things."

Then he has to decide if he wants to give up the want to be with you, or give up the want to be Open.

Talk honestly -- and sort it out.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-16-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:26 PM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
and I would agree to proceed extremely cautiously, but what other option is there but to deny it?

I think maybe I read you wrong, because it *almost* sounded like you were implying that simply talking honestly was dangerous for a relationship.

Which it certainly can be, esp if people do not know themselves or use truth as a weapon to hurt each other. But caring and compassionate truth I believe can strengthen bonds between spouses. And I don't subscribe to the theory that once the door is open that it can never be shut.

For some people, maybe, but poly is so much more of an emotional closeness, like the love of a family, that sex truly for some is not what it is about. And as far as the sex part goes, that opening of the door can in fact be shut, the truth however you are correct, but that isn't a bad door to be stuck open as it is the truth and being able to live your life truthfully that is the real giver of freedom and allows for unheard of levels of intimacy. To be able to share your life truthfully with others is incredible.

that is the point I was trying to make, sorry if I read your comment wrong
Nah it's cool...as you say, honesty can be dangerous for a relationship if the honesty discloses something that fundamentally goes against the values/beliefs of the other person.

Of course that doesn't mean that honesty isn't still the best policy.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:54 PM
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Sekhmet Sekhmet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
Regardless of whether or not it ever progresses beyond just talking about it, the two of you have an opportunity to have your relationship strengthened by a much deeper level of intimacy, through honesty and understanding. It isn't easy, but it is so worth it, and it can be obtained without ever actually 'opening up' your relationship.
I can tell you that just talking about it did make my marriage closer and more loving than ever. Actually following through has been amazing as well.

Talk. Talk until you need a break, take it, and then talk more. You can do this. I was more prepared for my husband to bring it up than it sounds like you were, and it was still hard. But so worth it.
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:20 PM
Murphy Murphy is offline
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Arrow Thanks

Thank you for all the replies and links so far.

This has to be one of the most difficult things I've faced. It is such an effort to find that position where I can just "let go" and "have faith", as someone (not here) told me to do.

I am a planner and detail-oriented. I have more than a Plan B, I have a whole alphabet. I consider all angles of things and prepare for all the possibilities, the what-ifs, and pre-arrange how to handle the consequences.

From that description, you can, I hope, get a feel for what a nightmare this looks like for me. I went on a roadtrip from hell with someone once when I was in college. They had no hotel reserved, no tools in the car, no AAA, no snacks, no idea where gas stations were, no emergency kit (in the Midwest this involves a first aid kit, blankets, candles, etc.), and finally...no printed map (just handwritten and drawn instructions).

Had I known any of this, I would have seen to it, but I was young and made the assumption that everyone planned like my family taught me. Boy, was I wrong. I won't tell the whole tale, but the result was that I never traveled with them again and that I saw to it that I did the travel planning or double-checked whoever did.

So leaps of faith are really not my style. And unfortunately, shifting our marriage to any flavor of this lifestyle involves just that. And worse, a lot of it involves that abstract category of emotions. There is no way to know beforehand all the triggers that could cause issues and no concrete way to plan for how to address them when they do.

I sat down and tried to write out some scenarios and situations and guidelines, but my husband was irritated. Aside from safe sex precautions, providing information on who/where/what/when, vetoing the use of our bedroom/house, and making sure the family schedule/time needs comes first (Dr's appts, holidays, birthdays, illness, etc.), he doesn't seem to want to agree to anything I propose, even if I tell him that the plan is a Stage One agreement that we will adjust as we go.

For example, I told him that I was not okay with "travel hook-ups", meaning no one-nighters while traveling alone, or any random stranger hook-ups for that matter, and he immediately took advantage of a noise from the other room (not anything that really needed investigation) to disengage and leave the room.

It is making me feel like I can have any compromise I want as long as it is his way.

If I have to give up some of what I want so he can be happy, shouldn't he give up some of what he wants so I can feel secure? Shouldn't he - if he wants to be with me as he says - be willing to accept not getting the "whole thing" if the result is keeping our marriage?

He doesn't want "a bunch of rules" and said "absolutely not" to any form of veto. He wants us to both be trusting in the fact that the other person wouldn't do anything to hurt the other, but if we don't lay those things out, how will we know? How will any of the SOs involved know what is okay and not okay if we don't?

I worry about the effects of NRE too, and being taken for granted. I already feel that way sometimes when it comes to his job, I don't need another person adding to it.

//sigh//
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:07 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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People around here usually have a strong opinion about rules versus not rules. Either is ok. I guess you could say i have a "N" or "z" which is two people who are married who each have another partner (except my other partner also has other relationships which i do not always know about nor do i need to know). We play by the "not rules" system. This is working really well. Actually i don't use "poly" i use "open" because i like it better.

The problem is not the rules themselves, it's that one of you wants lots of rules and the other doesn't. What if you told him you decided "no" to non-monogamy? Then he gets to have his "no rules". No poly, no rules needed, right? Everybody wins. You tell him i said so. He's a big boy, he can handle it with his big-boy pants on!
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:28 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Well... if yours is a need to feel secure traveling with no map. His is a need to be trusted to make good judgements.

You have suggested some things for the initial "how to work toward that place" stage 1 plan.

What's his suggestion for the "how to get there" plan?

If it really is "you can have any plan you want so long as it is MY WAY."

Then that's not really compromise or taking your wants, needs, and limits into consideration. And you are within your rights to say "Nope. Not polyshipping when I have no voice at the table. Not willing."

Then he can make his next move. And then you make yours after that based on new information received.

You don't have to do things against your own willingness.

Hang in there.
Galagirl
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2013, 05:39 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Coming from the perspective of someone that wants to open up, I fully support your approach.

I understand what a big decision it is and how much it is asking of my monogamous spouse. If you're taking an active role in trying to set what is acceptable and what it seems more than fair that he should reciprocate.

IIs there a chance he's already crossed some boundaries, and is feeling really guilty?
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