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  #11  
Old 04-13-2013, 12:51 AM
Nox Nox is offline
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I've almost replied to this 4 times now.

I think what I want to say is, yes I'm enabling her. Are you saying I should break up with her on principle?
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:18 AM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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Yes, and no. I mean at first I was like, why else would you break up? Then I thought maybe we don't have the same definition in our heads on principle.


Here's what people are saying, most people have their own personal rules about not dating someone that is lying or cheating. At the base of it is this. If she is willing to lie to people she claims to love, to care about, if that is how she shows she cares and respects them, then why would she treat you any differently?

I am also baffled when people ask for advice then explain they simply CAN NOT leave a not good to very bad situation because they are in love.

You can, you just don't want to. NRE is fun, it's great. That's nice. It does not mean you CAN NOT, it means you will not. Being poly means that you CAN POSSIBLY have more than one relationship, it does not mean that you can be with anyone that you happen to love. We have to take responsibility for our own situations. For knowing that as much as we love someone, we may not be good for them, or they may not be good for us. The timing may be bad, the relationship just not healthy for both people. It happens, it's sad, it's unfortunate, but it's life.

The only people that are with someone they love even though the situation is bad and unhealthy and it works out are bad teen fics.
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:45 AM
Nox Nox is offline
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I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh.

So, what you're saying is either I break up with her (and break my heart) or it's possible down the road she'll break my heart. There's really no downside to stringing this out, as far as I can tell.

Don't get me wrong. There are circumstances where I'd believe you.
Examples:
Sex. If (and it's a big if) it happens it would be protected. I might trust her, but I certainly don't trust her partner. And I have a wife to protect.
Money. Not applicable.
Kids. Not applicable.
Time. mayyybe? I've a little bit of brooding when I should be enjoying myself. But that's on me. She's not forcing me into that, and as I'm getting more secure, I'm less worried about trying to capture the most possible moments.

Other than that, we live 1500 miles away and there's zero chance of that changing. We lead completely separate lives, but enjoy spending time with each other.

And let's be clear. I'm looking for communication advice.
Should I confront her? I did. She eliminated the first half of my fear which made the back half insecurity rather than deceitful (according to our agreements.)

How do you deal with someone with depression? I still don't know. You can't just dump on them at any time. You wouldn't ask someone with pneumonia to take you to the movies. It's about timing. And she more than made up for it the rest of the day today.

I want to be clear. I'm not dismissing the advice. If I was making life decisions you would be 100% correct. I'm not and this was so accidental to begin with. Once my kids are a little older, I'll lose the majority of my motivation for an extra relationship anyway.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:08 AM
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nancyfore nancyfore is offline
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So are you saying that when the kids get older she is expendable??

How do you mean that when the kids get older you'll lose motivation for an extra relationship?

If your going to lose the motivation for an extra relationship, why bother going through all this now anyway?
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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You know she lies to her other partners. People who are supposed to be the closest to her. She is a cheater, at least one of her relationships is based entirely on a false premise. In that light, it is only sane and reasonable to assume that she is lying to you too... I mean, what makes you so special that she would lie to them but NOT to you? When she makes you feel that you have hurt her feelings by asking a simple question like "did you stay up later than you meant to last night?" that is a manipulative reaction to deflect attention from her lies by making you feel guilty. Plain and simple.

The only choices I see for you here are to 1) confront her about it, insist you won't take any more lying, and see if her behavior changes (it sounds like she's well and truly stuck in this pattern, so I doubt that will work), 2) break up, or 3) accept the lying as part of her and take everything she says with a grain of salt... don't try to play detective any longer by trying to figure out if she was really talking to someone else or not, just be zen about it and don't worry about the lying.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2013, 11:17 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evad View Post
I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh.

So, what you're saying is either I break up with her (and break my heart) or it's possible down the road she'll break my heart. There's really no downside to stringing this out, as far as I can tell.
What's the point of coming here and asking for advice and then giving a response like "I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh" when someone takes the time to respond?


Quote:
And let's be clear. I'm looking for communication advice.
Okay, so advice on communicating with a known liar--there's a book out there called When Your Lover is a Liar. There are several similar books on how to communicate with known liars. There are many websites that give similar advice. I read a whole bunch of them when I finally understood that my (now ex-) husband is a liar. I guess they have good advice on recognizing the signs that someone is lying to you. But I finally woke up one day, looked at this pile of books and web sites and all the pretzels I was twisting myself into trying to figure out when I was getting the truth, and realized it was ridiculous to live that way when I didn't have to. Hence the ex part.

If you'd like to stay in a relationship with her, however, maybe those books will have the communication advice you're seeking.

I really think you need to consider the question others have asked: what makes you so special that you believe she'll always be honest with you when she's lying to everyone else?

What's the deal with losing motivation for extra relationships when your kids get older? Is this girlfriend just a stress reliever during the hard years of parenting?
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2013, 02:03 AM
wildflowers wildflowers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
.. 3) accept the lying as part of her and take everything she says with a grain of salt... don't try to play detective any longer by trying to figure out if she was really talking to someone else or not, just be zen about it and don't worry about the lying.
I agree with Annabel - if you want to stay with her you need to try to do this. Otherwise you are likely to drive yourself crazy. (Warning - the above is not easy, even if you want to, so unless you really get a handle on your emotions some unhappiness as a result of this is likely.)

The thing is you know she will lie. It doesn't necessarily mean she's malicious; as you've said, some of the lies will be to avoid hurting you. But it means you can't count on her. If you can simply enjoy the times you have, and not worry about what you don't have/don't know, then it might work. But if you are someone who naturally expects honesty, you are likely to find yourself tripped up when you encounter evidence or suggestions of her lying, and you will have to find a way to deal with that and determine whether the effort is worth it. Maybe it is. Particularly in your LDR situation, you are not put at much practical risk by her behaviour; your situation is very different from most of those in When Your Lover is a Liar (which you still might find useful).

You may even find the situation somewhat useful for learning to address some of your insecurities, for thinking about what someone else's motivations may be, and for learning about dealing with someone different in an important way from you.

But it seems unlikely to be easy, or to be a problem that goes away entirely. Actually I think you're somewhat lucky that it hasn't been a problem until now.

I hope you find a solution that is acceptable to you.
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:53 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Re (from evad):
Quote:
"So, what you're saying is either I break up with her (and break my heart) or it's possible down the road she'll break my heart. There's really no downside to stringing this out, as far as I can tell."
Well, the possible downside would be if there was another potential relationship out there somewhere that you could be investing your time (and energy, and emotions) on, and maybe that other relationship would be healthier (and less owie) than this one. On the other hand, if you like the relationship you have (overall), then there's no need to go through the trouble of looking for another relationship.

As for how to communicate with someone who has depression, you've pretty much already got the right idea in that it helps to just give the depressed person some time to process their feelings. Oh and one other helpful tip: Don't try to "blow sunshine up their ass." In other words, don't tell them, "Oh honey, there's no reason for you to be depressed, just think of all the good things in your life." That just makes them feel like their feelings have been invalidated, and might even make them more depressed (and irate as well). Just acknowledge what they're feeling. "I can see you're going through an awfully rough patch right now. I'm sorry about that. I just want you to know that I'm here to help if there's any way I can." And then as we said, give them a chance to process their own feelings.

I speak from some experience as I've had my own struggles with depression (as well as other junk like bi-polar and whatnot). So this info should help, I hope.

As for communicating with a "white liar," the others have already covered those bases well. There's books you can get and that sounds like a good idea. But to a large extent, you'll just have to try to gain a zen acceptance of it, as much as you can.
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  #19  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:31 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancyfore
So are you saying that when the kids get older she is expendable??

How do you mean that when the kids get older you'll lose motivation for an extra relationship?

If your going to lose the motivation for an extra relationship, why bother going through all this now anyway?
Expendable is the wrong word, but aren't all relationships destined to change? Maybe you get closer, maybe you get farther apart, but they aren't the same. Realistically, this is a LDR, and is likely that it goes by the wayside.

Re: kids. My wife is very introverted. Currently I have to share her social time with the kids. As they grow up, the amount of time she will have to spend on me will likely increase. If I'm getting more time from the wife, that's less time I have for T. But we're talking over a decade, and I want to enjoy it while it's going on.

I have no intention of letting T out of my life. Quite the contrary. But at the same time I need to be realistic for everyone involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore
I mean, what makes you so special that she would lie to them but NOT to you?
Because I'm bbp (inside joke).

Seriously though, part of it is because I accept her for what she is. The others don't. There's no need to lie to me.

That being said, she will omit things and you're right, I am going to have to accept it, or end the relationship. It doesn't happen very often, and it's not about important stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened
What's the point of coming here and asking for advice and then giving a response like "I'm sorry, but this makes me laugh" when someone takes the time to respond?
Because that advice made me laugh. "Break up with her, or you'll have to break up with her!" That's funny.

I'm very thankful for both the time people have spent and the advice they have given. I will check out that book. I think there's a gray area on the honest. I agree with most of you that lies of ommission are still lies. However, when we are direct it is very candid and I don't belive she would outright lie. In addition, she will backfill. For example, if I revisited the night that started this whole thread, and asked her who she was talking to that night instead of sleeping, she would tell me the truth. It's only in foresight that I think there has been some ommission. In hindsight we work it out. Or maybe I'm deluding myself I'm not that naive to think that's not a possibility.

Wildflowers and kdt
Thank you for your responses. I really appreciate it.
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2013, 03:28 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I guess I am wondering how she feels that she is protecting people's feelings by hiding her poly side. To me, that is a big lie because it sounds like cheating to an extent. Correct me if I am wrong. If the boyfriends do not know that there are others, how is that fair to them? It sounds like she not only wants a slice of the cake. She wants the whole thing and be able to eat it. How is she hiding it? Is she telling him/them that you or the others are just friends?

I never want to have to wonder if someone I love is telling me the truth, so even lies of omission would not sit well with me. One lie leads to many lies because that person has to keep covering them. Then, the breakdown of trust begins. I would wonder what other lies were being told.

And while it is a long-distance relationship, I would suggest not putting a time limit on it. Like saying that once your children get older, you may not be that into it. If someone were to say that to me, I would have to tell them that I am not for lease or rent like a leasehold property/island that you only own/borrow for a given amount of time. Yes, relationships change. It sounds like you are expecting the end before you even reach that point. You may very well decide in six months or a year that you do not wish to continue having an online/long-distance relationship. She may decide that she wants to live closer to you. Who knows? You live in the moment, but you do not worry about the end when it is just the beginning. That is the wrong attitude and approach. I understand being a realist, but that thought can be a nagging presence that could cause you problems. Try to let it go and enjoy what you have.


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