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  #31  
Old 07-27-2009, 08:44 PM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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Mono - That is so true.
I have been in that situation before - not understanding how someone could be jealous when they were feeling so.

How do you think that gap in understanding could be bridged? Would you (not you specifically) want someone to feel jealousy in order to understand the emotion?

And - I take back that I have never felt it. That isn't true. It is more like it is an emotional response that I always manage to talk myself out of fairly quickly. So, it is more of a misunderstanding of why the jealous feelings persist, not that they come up at all.
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  #32  
Old 07-27-2009, 09:20 PM
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Would you (not you specifically) want someone to feel jealousy in order to understand the emotion?

.
Yes I would want someone to feel it. I also would want them to feel extreme love if they haven't. Emotions are human and normal; reaction is where we have a tendency to screw up.

It's like being afraid and choosing to cover your head instead of using the increased mental alertness to look for danger or a safe exit.

This is also about approaching jealousy and adversity in general as challenges vice threats. Challenges propel us forward; threats prepare us for war and close us off.

I am no expert in dealing with jealousy. I suffered from horrible jealousy in this relationship and with others. It's my reaction that enabled me to find a solution and not push away from what I loved. If Redpepper wasn't a natural selection soul mate for me I would never have survived.

If the relationship is strong and based on the connection two people have it can overcome a lot IMO. If it is based on a desire to maintain the status quo or possessions than it will fail.
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  #33  
Old 04-11-2011, 05:38 PM
curlyQhoopDidoo curlyQhoopDidoo is offline
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Default Sypathetic Joy, Non-attachment, Challenges etc.

hello friends (:

I was hoping to hear about your experiences with sympathetic joy, self identity, and your struggles as you embark on different adventures.

What do you think of sympathetic joy (the idea of feeling happy because someone you love is happy, even if they are happy because of someone else)?

To me it seems really logical, but very difficult.

Is it hard to experience sympathetic joy sometimes? What do you do when you are feeling jealously, or envy creeping up on you?

It seems like somewhere in the roots of sympathetic joy is the idea of non-attachment, or the idea that we only hurt ourselves with attachment and the false sense of security it brings.

Has your experience with polyamorous relationships seemed more realistic at all, in the sense that you are less possessive of your loves and/or more accepting of the idea that (unfortunately) we will all have to say goodbye to one another eventually?

How has your experience helped you to be more true to yourself and to find your true identity?

Lastly, given the society that we live in and its prescribed ideas of heteronormativity and monogamy as a norm, what struggles have you had as you have challenged these ideas?

Has it been worth it? What would you say to the closed minded if you could tell them or try to teach them anything you believe in?

Thanks! Can't wait to hear from you guys

(: (: curlyqhooper
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  #34  
Old 04-11-2011, 05:50 PM
curlyQhoopDidoo curlyQhoopDidoo is offline
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Default a lot

i know that was a lot of questions...but anything that comes to mind or that you feel like sharing is appreciated
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by curlyQhoopDidoo View Post
It seems like somewhere in the roots of sympathetic joy is the idea of non-attachment, or the idea that we only hurt ourselves with attachment and the false sense of security it brings.

Has your experience with polyamorous relationships seemed more realistic at all, in the sense that you are less possessive of your loves and/or more accepting of the idea that (unfortunately) we will all have to say goodbye to one another eventually?

How has your experience helped you to be more true to yourself and to find your true identity?

Lastly, given the society that we live in and its prescribed ideas of heteronormativity and monogamy as a norm, what struggles have you had as you have challenged these ideas?

Has it been worth it? What would you say to the closed minded if you could tell them or try to teach them anything you believe in?
"Compersion" or as you are referring to it, "sympathetic joy" is difficult to achieve, but for me it doesn't have to do with attachment in the sense of co-dependence. I am very attached to my partners and am very grateful that they are in my lives and attached to me. Attached does not mean unable to move, live, make a decision, have my own path, have my own thoughts, feelings, adventures, dreams of the future.... and, have my own connection to myself as primary. I am first for sure, but I can't go about life alone. I need a mirror to reflect back in other people I trust and confide in. That is healthy attachment to me.

So often I think people think that they have to abandon all attachment in order to be successful in poly, in compersion, in a successful relationship life at all. Commitment and attachment are very important... I believe in "attachment theory" in raising my child (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory, http://psychology.about.com/od/lovea...tachment01.htm) and believe in it for my own life. We are social creatures and need each other in order to be healthy. I chose who I want to be with to be healthy and work hard at keeping those relationships strong.

I think that when someone is jealous it is from a place of fear of losing someone's attention because they are overly dependant on the person that is seemingly moving away from them. It's not a marker of being overly attached so much as an indication of imbalance. Of not creating and finding within what is missing and depending unhealthily on another to "give" a sense of purpose and belonging.

There are a lot of people with a huge sense that they will be "hurt" by others and therefore should stay detached and distant from them. I find more and more that on-line life creates this for people. It is a false sense of safety that occurs on-line. Real relationships becomes overwhelmingly unsafe in appearance because the person is not capable or convinced that people are unsafe (I'm talking extremes here, but I have seen and heard of extremes).

The thing is, if I am safe to be close to and attached to, then shouldn't other people be just as safe? If I feel that I am a good person to trust, then aren't others? These are the questions that I ask myself... sometimes people turn out to be not trustworthy with my heart, sure, yet I push forward and find others to trust... and have!

The world is huge, there are others out there... finding them and trusting is all I have I reckon. Vulnerability is a huge part of that. I make myself vulnerable enough to attach and commit to others. They do to me.

I am not possessive, but I find that I have never really said good bye to anyone I have loved. They are always in my heart and send that love to them always... we are all connected, as I said before. That might sound flakey, but I really believe that more than ever we need each other.

We need to commit to each others well being and we need to be attached enough to be able to experience empathy/compassion... otherwise, I think we are all fucked; wars will go on, children will be abused, animals mistreated, elderly blown off, blah, blah,blah... everyone, at some point will be in pain simply because no one has stood up for them and loved them because they were too busy looking after number one and not paying attention. To love others is to love oneself. This means evolving our empathy by involving ourselves in others I think.
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  #36  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:32 AM
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For me, I've felt at least these types of compersion;

1) I have had sex with someone who really knew how to do it. We had fun times but there is someone I heavily suspect they would be even more compatible with. I love this person, I want them to experience the fullness of joy, also of sexual joy. I know that the person I've had sex with is interested in my other love. So to me, it seems natural to try to make sure that they at least consider the possibility of getting it on (without me).

2) I see someone treating their loved ones with respect and love. They want to share their loves with me, not because they are afraid that the relationship would end otherwise or because they want to get their own jollies out of it. They are just good at sharing, like someone who has enough to get by themselves might want to share from their good fortune to others less well-to-do. They understand the philosophy behind it. So compersion tinged with gratefulness and admiration.

3) I am with someone and thoroughly enjoying my self. For some reason, there is something I can't fully give to this other person - something they can do without, an interest perhaps that I don't share. I would encourage them to the best of my ability to seek out someone who shares that interest with them. A good example, like Mono pointed out, would be me dating a bisexual and wanting them to find a male partner as well.

So for me, compersion is a combination of wanting somebody to experience the fullness of joy available to them and also feeling that someone I am with is just too good NOT to share.
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  #37  
Old 04-12-2011, 04:55 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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So for me, compersion is a combination of wanting somebody to experience the fullness of joy available to them and also feeling that someone I am with is just too good NOT to share.
I had never thought of it, but there IS a bit of that, isn't there? "My boyfriend is so awesome, please, people come and see for yourself!". It's like when you love a book so much that you want everyone else to read it.

For me, it's mostly the other way around: I want my boyfriend to be happy, and it doesn't matter to me if I'm always the one who achieves it as long as I'm making him happy some of the time at least. But you can't reasonably be the only person making someone happy. There will be friends, family and complete strangers doing it.

I haven't really experiences jealousy in my romantic relationships because I was always so sure of how much I was loved. Nothing was a threat to that. However, I have been jealous of friends. I found it much harder to "share" them, because I know it's possible to lose them if you don't get to see them often enough, and it has happened to me a lot.
I think if I could have hanged out with their other friends it would have been fine. It was the exclusion, being pushed aside and away, that hurt.
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  #38  
Old 04-12-2011, 07:48 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
What do you think of sympathetic joy (the idea of feeling happy because someone you love is happy, even if they are happy because of someone else)?
I think it's an admirable quality to foster in oneself.

Quote:
To me it seems really logical, but very difficult.
It's easiest if you A) are ensuring your own needs are met & B) you are committed to not being self-centered.
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Is it hard to experience sympathetic joy sometimes?
absolutely. If you have an unmet need, have failed to address your internal fears, if you are "under the weather" (which means you have an unmet need), if you are focused on your own gratification, if you are addicted to instant gratification.

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What do you do when you are feeling jealously, or envy creeping up on you?
Depends on what's going on. One time I sent my metamour a loving, affectionate letter. She wrote back how much it meant to her that I shared my husband with her and that reply sent me to highs of self-appreciation that killed the insecurity that was driving my bout of jealousy.

At other times I've simply asked my partner for a hug or kiss and told them I'm feeling insecure (because generally jealousy is triggered by insecurity) or missing our time together (because envy is generally triggered by a lack of having what someone else is having). That almost always solves the issue.

In an ideal (poly)world, I'd spend a few extra minutes with my significant other with them reassuring me by their willingness to give me a few extra minutes; and then I'd plan a "friendly date" (not romantic-no need to compete) with my metamour in the week ahead.
I find that creating a friendly bond with the metamour makes them a REAL person and that alleviates the sense of them being a "threat". Also, if I can be friends with them and can talk and hang out with them comfortably on my own, that increases their understanding of my quirks (like I get all emotional just before my period) and my understanding of theirs (like they need their lover more often the week before theirs).

Quote:
It seems like somewhere in the roots of sympathetic joy is the idea of non-attachment, or the idea that we only hurt ourselves with attachment and the false sense of security it brings.
I think it's critical to know what your definition of attachment is in order to address this. For me attachment is a critical part of a relationship, but being attached to someone is not the same to me as being possessive of them. In order to remain in a deep, meaningful place in a relationship, I need quality time and emotional connection with my S.O.

But, I don't need them to share quality time with ONLY me and have an emotional connection with ONLY me. In fact, that would be creepy. I think that the emotional connection that one has with a lover is related to the emotional connection one has with any other person; different depth maybe, but same concept. I would never want someone to give up their emotional connections with the rest of their loved ones for me; it follows logically for me that if I can share a deep, meaningful, emotional connection with them while they have so many emotional connections to others, then I can share an emotional connection with them while they have another deep, meaningful, emotional connection with another lover.

Quote:
Has your experience with polyamorous relationships seemed more realistic at all, in the sense that you are less possessive of your loves and/or more accepting of the idea that (unfortunately) we will all have to say goodbye to one another eventually?
No. I already was no possessive of my loves. I'm not accepting of the idea that we will all have to say goodbye to one another. Saying goodbye is a choice, we can make it, or not.

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How has your experience helped you to be more true to yourself and to find your true identity?
Yes.

Quote:
Lastly, given the society that we live in and its prescribed ideas of heteronormativity and monogamy as a norm, what struggles have you had as you have challenged these ideas?
Aside from dealing with Maca, very few. The people I surround myself with (mostly mono) are open to accepting that we're all different. That has made it very easy to be "different" because in one way or another, we all are.

On the other hand, I've encountered a number of judgmental and hostile people in the "poly community". Which I find ironic and bizarre.

Quote:
Has it been worth it?
Yes.

Quote:
What would you say to the closed minded if you could tell them or try to teach them anything you believe in?
I wouldn't waste my breath. It's impossible to teach anyone who isn't open to learning and a closed minded person isn't open. However, to a person who was open to learning but inexperienced or fearful, I would tell them of all the positive lessons I've learned.
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:18 AM
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However, I have been jealous of friends. I found it much harder to "share" them, because I know it's possible to lose them if you don't get to see them often enough, and it has happened to me a lot.
I think if I could have hanged out with their other friends it would have been fine. It was the exclusion, being pushed aside and away, that hurt.
This! I've had intense friendship jealousy. Slowly working towards increased compersion in close friendships too. I always try to ask Flattie when she is going to see her friends next to show my support (I hope) for her other friendships.
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  #40  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:47 AM
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Those rare moments when I have managed to be happy for my lover have generally been achieved by putting myself in my lover's shoes. I know that I've had sex with other people, and come back to the relationship happier and stronger than when I left. I know that, while I was in the middle of having sex with that other person, I felt no less love (and maybe even more) for my partner. If I face my fears and try, I can get excited for her, knowing that she's probably having a good time. Loving someone means wanting them to be happy.

I think compersion starts with trusting your partner's love. Which is of course inextricably tied to your self-esteem. That's the foundation. Once you kill jealousy and insecurity, then compersion becomes possible. I don't think it's necessarily that linear, though. I find that trying to be happy for my lover often also reduces feelings of jealousy. But I think compersion is possible to the degree that you are able to slay the green dragon. Of course, that's easier for some than for others.

But confidence can be gained. Jealousy can be slain. Compersion can be achieved. I know, because I've made progress on all of these fronts. You can too.
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