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Old 04-02-2013, 05:02 PM
raingirl31 raingirl31 is offline
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I've lurked here on and off since joining in 2009. I can't recall if I posted then as I haven't been here in a few years. I may have but a lot has changed....

DH and I are considering poly. DH is bi, I'm hetero. Recently we've been going to counselling and working out some things and I think we both agree that we love each other and want to build a life together, but there are some things that we aren't getting and can't get from each other. Which is ok, and it took me some time to understand that. For example, we can't sleep in the same bed/room at this time as he is a very heavy, loud, and mobile sleeper (think Lord of the Dance while laying down). I'm a light sleeper who wants pitch black, pure silence, no movement. It sucks but what can you do if you need sleep?

I've read a LOT about poly for years, but the stumbling block we have right now is...we are doing fertility treatments (part of why our relationship is on the rocks - infertility can kill any relationship). The rules for clinics where we live is that we have to be in a strict mono relationship and we have to sign agreements that we are, just because they are working with our bodily fluids and for infectious disease control reasons, etc. I totally understand and respect this, since it's a delicate situation dealing with embryos and such, especially since the lab works with other couples...materials, we don't want to jeopardize the safety of anything for anyone. I mean, we would be 100% safe but still...can't risk it considering we signed agreements.

Therefore, for us to consider going poly at all, it means giving up any further fertility treatments and just trying on our own. We've been trying for 6 years unsuccessfully and I'm 35 so at some point we have to decide if it's worth any more time, energy, stress, heartache, etc to continue. I want a child more than anything in the world and my heart breaks every day just thinking about it. That's why it's hard to just give up.

The reason I'm back here is...well...I've found a man that I could easily be poly with. He's poly-friendly (never done it though) and is ok with me being married. DH has had a few low level encounters with some men so far as well (just making out), but I think he's still not comfortable with the jealousy issue and I'm not sure he would be ok with me and another man, even though I'm ok with him seeing another man/woman. This man is actually an old friend (known 6 years) that I've recently become more chatty with and closer to (haven't done anything though). The one thing that really makes me fall for this guy is that he would also be willing to father a child with me if I wanted as he knows my fertility struggles. He always wanted to be a father but never got the chance.

Any suggestions on how I should bring this up? We see our fertility doctor in 2 weeks and are doing one more round of IUI/fertility (insemination) in May. That will be our 5th try after seeing 3 doctors and having two surgeries (and 4 miscarriages). If we want to go farther for IVF, we will need to save for a year or two anyway so would be taking a break.

Sorry, I know this is long. I'm just not sure how to approach it with DH. I mean, we talk about poly, but it's always been a "if we give up on having a baby" thing, which I'm not really ready to do. I don't want to leave DH and we love each other and have a great time. But I'm afraid to bring this up as I think he will take it negatively. But I'm missing something and I really think I'm falling for this other man as well.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:47 PM
Stevenjaguar Stevenjaguar is offline
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Is this a problem with sperm quality or egg quality? If you've had miscarriages, it's most likely a problem with your eggs or your ability to carry to term. If you want to try different sperm, however, I think you should start doing something about it soon as your prospects get smaller after age 35.

If you've identified sperm as the problem and you want to try different sperm, there's no choice but to bring up the subject with your partner. He can only tell you how he feels about it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:14 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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'I've read a LOT about poly for years, but the stumbling block we have right now is...we are doing fertility treatments (part of why our relationship is on the rocks - infertility can kill any relationship). The rules for clinics where we live is that we have to be in a strict mono relationship and we have to sign agreements that we are, just because they are working with our bodily fluids and for infectious disease control reasons, etc. I totally understand and respect this, since it's a delicate situation dealing with embryos and such, especially since the lab works with other couples...materials, we don't want to jeopardize the safety of anything for anyone. I mean, we would be 100% safe but still...can't risk it considering we signed agreements.'

I wish you success in your fertility treatments. I have a dear friend going through something similar. It is so hard.

But I have to comment that your clinic's policy of making you sign a mono only relationship agreement to 'protect' their staff, that strikes me as bullshit. Basically they are saying that only mono, possibly just straight, couples get a shot at babies. Do they refuse to assist single women or men? LBGT folks? Is legal marriage also required?

I agree that disclosure and testing for STIs of their patients is a wise precaution both for their patients and staff. STIs can affect fertility and some can be transmitted by blood or other fluids. Increasing number of partners can increase risk but that is true regardless of relationship style. A monogamous person serially dating can rack up some serious numbers. Unless there is some rational reason I have overlooked, this is particularly insidious slut shaming. I bet they will serve cheating couples who lie but an honest polyamorous or other ethical non-monogamous folks are right out.

Please understand I do not condemn in any way your decision to sign and start treatments. One must do what one must do sometimes. You have to do what is right for you. But wow, this makes me angry.

And to attempt to answer your actual question, you could frame it as 'I'm not ready to give up on fertility treatments yet, but I've met someone who makes me wonder what if we decided to open up our relationship? It's not serious, I have not made any moves - we are just friends. But I wonder and wanted to start talking about it with you.'
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:10 PM
raingirl31 raingirl31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
Is this a problem with sperm quality or egg quality? If you've had miscarriages, it's most likely a problem with your eggs or your ability to carry to term. If you want to try different sperm, however, I think you should start doing something about it soon as your prospects get smaller after age 35.

If you've identified sperm as the problem and you want to try different sperm, there's no choice but to bring up the subject with your partner. He can only tell you how he feels about it.
We've been lumped in the "unexplained infertility" category unfortunately. It's probably more me than him though. His counts are 10X the avg amount and all tests point them to be awesome sperm (above avg mobility, motility, etc). I had a uterine septum removed last October which my latest doctor believes may have been the cause of the issues all along. Being that we have, since that time, conceived once on our own 2 months ago, we are really hopeful that I am fixed. But, I also have immune issues and that could be the cause. There is a possibility that I'm "allergic" to my husband's sperm, hence why I'm somewhat tempted to try with another man.

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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
'I've read a LOT about poly for years, but the stumbling block we have right now is...we are doing fertility treatments (part of why our relationship is on the rocks - infertility can kill any relationship). The rules for clinics where we live is that we have to be in a strict mono relationship and we have to sign agreements that we are, just because they are working with our bodily fluids and for infectious disease control reasons, etc. I totally understand and respect this, since it's a delicate situation dealing with embryos and such, especially since the lab works with other couples...materials, we don't want to jeopardize the safety of anything for anyone. I mean, we would be 100% safe but still...can't risk it considering we signed agreements.'

I wish you success in your fertility treatments. I have a dear friend going through something similar. It is so hard.

But I have to comment that your clinic's policy of making you sign a mono only relationship agreement to 'protect' their staff, that strikes me as bullshit. Basically they are saying that only mono, possibly just straight, couples get a shot at babies. Do they refuse to assist single women or men? LBGT folks? Is legal marriage also required?

I agree that disclosure and testing for STIs of their patients is a wise precaution both for their patients and staff. STIs can affect fertility and some can be transmitted by blood or other fluids. Increasing number of partners can increase risk but that is true regardless of relationship style. A monogamous person serially dating can rack up some serious numbers. Unless there is some rational reason I have overlooked, this is particularly insidious slut shaming. I bet they will serve cheating couples who lie but an honest polyamorous or other ethical non-monogamous folks are right out.

Please understand I do not condemn in any way your decision to sign and start treatments. One must do what one must do sometimes. You have to do what is right for you. But wow, this makes me angry.

And to attempt to answer your actual question, you could frame it as 'I'm not ready to give up on fertility treatments yet, but I've met someone who makes me wonder what if we decided to open up our relationship? It's not serious, I have not made any moves - we are just friends. But I wonder and wanted to start talking about it with you.'
About the rule - it's a government rule by the ministry of health here. Basically, we sign forms saying we are the only people in the relationship during the duration of the treatment. They don't discriminate against poly, LGBT, etc, it's just that if I entered into any relationship outside of DH, I would have to bring the additional person into the fold of the fertility treatments as well (they would have to get tested at the clinic and be clean, etc) as per government rules. That's all. For instance, if a single woman comes in for insemination, from the time she is tested for STIs, etc, until she is done with any treatment regimens, she technically has to remain single (no having sex, even protected, to put the clinic at risk). Sorry that I didn't clarify.

I have nothing against bringing someone into the fold of our treatments and theoretically if I did get involved with this man, he already consented to whatever would be required if I still wanted to work towards having a baby.

Thanks for the last bit as well, that's a good way to approach it. I'm still really scared (DH knows this man, which adds a layer of fear, and I know he doesn't like him at all...)
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:14 AM
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Why doesn't your DH like this man? I have to ask.

If I understand right, you can continue fertility treatment even if you form a poly circle, you just have to have the new person tested for STI's and have him officially recognized on the paperwork.

Correct me on my info so far, and indulge me on my questions. I may then be able to give some helpful input.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:56 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raingirl31 View Post
I've read a LOT about poly for years, but the stumbling block we have right now is...we are doing fertility treatments (part of why our relationship is on the rocks - infertility can kill any relationship). The rules for clinics where we live is that we have to be in a strict mono relationship and we have to sign agreements that we are, just because they are working with our bodily fluids and for infectious disease control reasons, etc. I totally understand and respect this, since it's a delicate situation dealing with embryos and such, especially since the lab works with other couples...materials, we don't want to jeopardize the safety of anything for anyone. I mean, we would be 100% safe but still...can't risk it considering we signed agreements.
What, do they cross-contaminate samples and smear your fluids all over their bare hands? That's a ridiculous policy from a biohazard perspective. If their fluid handling techniques are so lax that they might get your HIV on someone else's embryo, what's to stop your eggs from being fertilized by someone else's sperm? To me, that just sounds like them having a thing against non-monogamy, and using their position to try and control patients. Gross.

The fact that it's a government policy is even worse. Legislated bigotry... Lovely!
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:12 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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I am so sorry about your fertility woes. That is heartbreaking. Only you know how strong your marriage is. How do you think your husband would react to this man and his offer to father a child? What is it about this man that he does not like? Is it something that would cloud his judgment and make him say no without a second thought?

If I were you, I would thank him for the offer and talk to your DH. Considering he has been there for all through ups and downs, he may not be alright with this guy's offer. On the other hand he might because a baby is the one thing you want but cannot seem to have. Then again, it might make him feel inadequate. Only waybto find outfit to talk to him or get a feel for it by presenting a hypothetical scenario. Have you and your husband considered a surrogate to give your body a break? I know it is not the same as carrying a child, but fertility treatments are already emotionally taxing and hard. Your marriage seems strained, and I am sure the stress is not helping your treatments.

There is also nothing wrong with seeking more opinions. Someone may have the answer as to why it has failed. Sending hugs your way.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:39 PM
raingirl31 raingirl31 is offline
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(Sorry, I have tendency to make long posts!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Why doesn't your DH like this man? I have to ask.

If I understand right, you can continue fertility treatment even if you form a poly circle, you just have to have the new person tested for STI's and have him officially recognized on the paperwork.

Correct me on my info so far, and indulge me on my questions. I may then be able to give some helpful input.
So...this man (P) is a co-worker of mine. DH and I used to work together as well, so we all worked together at one point. P has always had a crush on me, since I started working in his department in 2008. He would often flirt with me at work and via text. It never bothered me, it was more just in fun (like teasing) and I never really took it seriously. DH hated it though.

Now that DH doesn't work here anymore, P has been a little more mature. Before we would avoid each other and only chat casually as it bothered my DH. But now we chat more at work. The flirting stopped and we now have some really intellectual conversations. But P now only works nights so I rarely see him at work, and never socially. Most of our conversations are over the phone or text.

I suspect the reason that DH doesn't like him is just basic jealousy. He hasn't done anything (other than the flirting with me) to make DH not like him. There was this one incident though where we accidentally bumped into each other walking into a door way. He accidentally touched a boob in the process. It was funny and we joked about it, but once DH found a text about him joking about it, he freaked out (not understanding the context). Ever since then, we don't mention the name P in our house at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
I am so sorry about your fertility woes. That is heartbreaking. Only you know how strong your marriage is. How do you think your husband would react to this man and his offer to father a child? What is it about this man that he does not like? Is it something that would cloud his judgment and make him say no without a second thought?

If I were you, I would thank him for the offer and talk to your DH. Considering he has been there for all through ups and downs, he may not be alright with this guy's offer. On the other hand he might because a baby is the one thing you want but cannot seem to have. Then again, it might make him feel inadequate. Only way to find outfit to talk to him or get a feel for it by presenting a hypothetical scenario. Have you and your husband considered a surrogate to give your body a break? I know it is not the same as carrying a child, but fertility treatments are already emotionally taxing and hard. Your marriage seems strained, and I am sure the stress is not helping your treatments.

There is also nothing wrong with seeking more opinions. Someone may have the answer as to why it has failed. Sending hugs your way.
Thanks. Surrogates are very hard to come by here. In the US you can pay people to be one, but not here so it's very rare to find one. We can't even afford IVF now for ourselves, and it would be the same in costs for egg retrieval, etc.

I do agree that DH would probably NOT like it if I took the offer from P to try and father a baby with him either. I really think that the fertility problems clouds a lot of my judgement lately - probably out of desperation. I'm getting very antsy and depressed over it all and I'm constantly trying to think of other "solutions". I know finding another man isn't a solution, but in a romantic sense I've always wanted to have an "unexpected" or "pregnant on the first try" pregnancy, so the idea of being with another man, recklessly for that purpose does have a little appeal to me. Then again, P is older (late 40's) so pregnancy chances would be slim anyway with my own problems.

I guess...after 6 years at this (6 years exactly on April 29 when we first ditched any birth control) I'm probably starting to give up on the baby thing. So many things in my life I've put on hold because of the "just in case I get pregnant" thing. Tattoos, vacations, exercise (I'm paranoid about exercising too much because it can cause anovulation, and the "what if I'm pregnant and it's too early to know and I'm too physically active and it doesn't implant" paranoia). Maybe it's an early mid-life crisis? Which is known to happen with infertility... I'm getting a new tattoo this weekend which to me is huge.

I suspect the reason I'm allowing myself to go down the poly road is also because of this realization that l can no longer live the life I wanted. If I can't have kids, then I'm going to have to find other ways to make me happy.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:24 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by raingirl31 View Post
Therefore, for us to consider going poly at all, it means giving up any further fertility treatments and just trying on our own. We've been trying for 6 years unsuccessfully and I'm 35 so at some point we have to decide if it's worth any more time, energy, stress, heartache, etc to continue. I want a child more than anything in the world and my heart breaks every day just thinking about it. That's why it's hard to just give up.
Just wanted to say that I really empathize with what you are feeling. I wrote about my own experiences with poly and infertility here. TL,DR version - I'm 38. I have endometriosis (which limits fertility). 9 years ago I had a miscarriage with MrS, 2 years ago I had a miscarriage with (probably) Dude (pregnancy possibility negotiated/discussed/agreed upon beforehand). I gave up - it was a hard, hard decision. You have my sympathy.

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:00 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I do feel compassion for what you're going through, but I'm going to be frank. My gut response says you should wait until after your next treatment and see how things go before bringing up anything about poly. Stay focused. I have a sense that it is out of frustration that your mind is going to (possibly fixated on?) this other guy. I would think the more sensible strategy would be to discuss surrogacy or adoption rather than bringing in another guy's sperm. In the midst of all you're managing right now, to talk to hubby about a guy you already know he doesn't like "at all," I think would add unnecessary stress to you both. You've been so patient so far, just stay with it a little longer and set aside poly as an option for now. Besides, if you do become pregnant, having an additional totally new relationship could just be another headache, when you will need to focus on staying well for the pregnancy, childbirth, etc. That's my take on it.
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