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Old 03-30-2013, 11:30 AM
CalShep CalShep is offline
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Default Two, sometimes three minds about this

So, for the past 5 years or so husband and I worked up to poly, and in the last 6 months had started dating. I've had very little success, while currently he is in a very successfully launched relationship.

The first problem is ideal vs. reality. He would love for his GF and I to be besties (since she is straight and no romantic option). In reality, we're both very similar- but unfortunately that includes being introverted and withdrawn and slow to open up socially. In my case I also have issues with anxiety and if I'm feeling "pushed" or "encouraged" toward something- I start fighting back for no good reason. For example-

Just recently DH gave his GF my cell number so she could text me sometime. No big deal, right? Well, except 1.) I wasn't informed of this plan beforehand, and 2.) when I went to browse their texting convos he admitted they'd been 'conspiring' and asked me not to read it. Now, trust has been a bit of an issue in our relationship- he on occasion will (most often subconsciously) hide things that he thinks might set me off or hurt my feelings (e.g. convos with other women that turned explicit without my knowledge/consent) I do feel like he does have a reason- I have anxiety and depression that is being treated now but has been a problem in the past. But he also just seems to hide things other times even if we've talked about them and I told him it's OK. So I basically have a huge pet peeve about info being kept from me. On top of that, I do NOT like surprises of any sort. I have a vivid, pessismistic imagination so my mind immediately goes to worst case scenario. Plus, I don't do well caught off-guard. I need time to plan, to consider if I'm OK with a situation before I'm thrown into it. So...I freaked out. Big time. He was at GF's house at the time and I blew up his phone texting. When he admitted all it was was having given GF my number, I told him I wasn't comfortable with that, that I'd been working up the gumption to talk to her about texting sometime but I wasn't there yet. And now my "flight" reaction has kicked in and it's two more steps back for a me/GF friendship.

Another issue is my indecisiveness. I'm turned on by the thought of him being with another woman, which was what sent us into the poly discussions. But again with the reality vs. ideal, not only is GF exclusively his partner, but I don't see her being OK with me being present while they're intimate. Which I understand and respect- it's just hard. Going into poly, I imagined we'd share a partner or each have separate partners or at least I'd be friends with GF to the point of us hanging out even if DH isn't around- none of which is happening. We're solidly a Vee, which I've been trying to be OK with but now I'm seriously struggling. My brain, my logic says I'm cool with him having a relationship. That GF is a neat person, they make each other happy, it's great. But my emotions flare up and I start wondering if I can do this. Which is hard, because in no way would I want to hurt their relationship. It's maddening.

In another example, tonight was the first night he slept over at her house. I had a few reservations but muscled past them and told him OK. They hadn't hung out in a while and I didn't want to be selfish. So, I'm smacked with insomnia, waking up every hour or two and each time being disappointed he's not laying next to me. He finally comes home to get some rest before work, so I ask him about his visit (which is one of our agreements, that I want to hear every last detail about everything). He tells me about it, but speaks mostly in generalities. Like, "well, we talked, cuddled, made out a bit. There was some heavy petting, then we fell asleep." I pressed him a bit for more info, like what the "heavy petting" involved (we've talked on how I need to feel informed on how deep their relationship is going, plus again, it tends to arouse me so I thought it would dispell my emotions). He was hesitant. I wanted to hear a play-by-play, and he just gave a few extra broad details with qualifiers like "I might have..." I got frustrated and upset. Told him it felt like he didn't want to talk about it, and wound up rolling over away from him quietly till he fell asleep. I felt if he wasn't going to be forthcoming I wasn't going to press the matter, but it still had me upset.

So, coming up, tonight we're supposed to be going out on a dinner date with GF. Now I don't want to go not to stop him from going, just excluding myself). She asked a while ago if he could go out of town with her on a day trip for her birthday- I had ultimately given my consent, then suggested bringing the kids up in a seaparate vehicle so they could attend the zoo (where GF wanted DH to take her). They were both OK with it- but now my gut reaction is I don't want to go anymore. I'm pushing away emotionally and I know it, but I don't know how to stop it. I'm struggling with walking the line between being a peripheral to their realtionship and having facets of it that I'm stright up not part of.

So, now I'm full of doubts. Does he just want privacy as far as their intimate relationship? Does he have a right to it despite what we've discussed (my wanting to hear about every little detail)? Do I want to keep trying to be somewhat included in their relationship at the risk of feeling like a 3rd wheel all of the time? How do I balance my feelings and needs against GF's without getting down on myself?

The other hard part is DH is a great partner for the most part. He's one in a million. He's always very reassuring of my feelings- like before he left last night made sure to snuggle up to me to make me feel loved- though the whole time I was stuck on the thought of it being a 'consolation prize' for him getting extended time with GF, so I couldn't really enjoy it. I just wanted to disconnect emotionally so he could just go and I could just find other things to occupy my mind.

I just feel so ridiculous. On the one hand, she's great, he's great, they're great together. He's still loving and attentive to me, and considers my feelings most of the time, and if he slips up it doesn't seem intentional. I'm in this conundrum of wanting to express my feelings but to not feel too demanding. I want to be able to say, "I really could use having you to myself this evening," but don't always want to have to say it- want him to just spontaneously want to spend time just the two of us.

Can anyone help me get myself sorted?
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:21 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I want to be able to say, "I really could use having you to myself this evening," but don't always want to have to say it- want him to just spontaneously want to spend time just the two of us.

Can anyone help me get myself sorted?
Could ask him for time with him alone so you help yourself get your connection need met.

Could stop expecting him to mind reader your wants, needs and limits from the skies. He cannot meet a need he does not know you have right now.

Could let go of an unreasonable want for your partner to be mind reading psychic.

Quote:
Just recently DH gave his GF my cell number so she could text me sometime. No big deal, right? Well, except 1.) I wasn't informed of this plan beforehand,
So inform him you want to be told before he gives out your number to people in future.

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2.) when I went to browse their texting convos he admitted they'd been 'conspiring' and asked me not to read it.
Could respect his limits when he asks you not to be going in his phone.

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I have a vivid, pessismistic imagination so my mind immediately goes to worst case scenario.
Could work on changing your thinking patterns and trust you partner.

Remember this?

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he's great, he's great, they're great together. He's still loving and attentive to me, and considers my feelings most of the time, and if he slips up it doesn't seem intentional.
Could recall that when the inner judging voice pipes up yammer and choose to believe in actions done and ACTUALITY.

Rather choose to believe in funked up inner voice yammer imaginings and feelings and PERCEIVED REALITY. Could learn to stop "tempest in a teapotting" yourself into a tizzy and get a better handle on emotional management/anxiety management.

Are you willing to let him have personal privacy as an individual?

Are you willing to let them have couple privacy on their tier of relationship?

If so? This business of you wanting to know every little detail? Doesn't give him any respect to privacy or emotional space at all.

You feel jealous/excluded in there somewhere? Maybe this helps:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im...ed_10-6-10.pdf
http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/p.../jealousy.html

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I'm in this conundrum of wanting to express my feelings but to not feel too demanding. I want to be able to say, "I really could use having you to myself this evening," but don't always want to have to say it- want him to just spontaneously want to spend time just the two of us.
But in short, if you feel the need for connection, could focus on what you want. CONNECTION feelings with him. And go about making the space to cultivate that.

Rather than focus on what you do not want -- exclusion feelings.

Don't make the mistake of creating emotional distance between you just because you want him to be psychic and he's just not.

Do not make the mistake of thinking just you having some "basic adult human needs" is you "automatically being a demanding person."

Don't want to be demanding? Don't. Just request.

Demand: "Do this now! Or else!"
Request: "Hon, I would like.... Could you be willing to do that?"

It's not the mere having of the needs. Everyone has needs. Just how you make your needs know. Learn some "volume knob" in there. It's not the radio station OFF and you never express your needs and just wish him to divine it from the skies. Or the radio station full volume BLASTING DEMANDS on the other extreme. Find the volume that serves you somewhere in the happy medium. Ask him how he'd like to be approached when you have needs and would like to make requests.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-31-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:46 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by CalShep View Post
He finally comes home to get some rest before work, so I ask him about his visit (which is one of our agreements, that I want to hear every last detail about everything).

I wanted to hear a play-by-play, and he just gave a few extra broad details with qualifiers like "I might have..."

Does he just want privacy as far as their intimate relationship? Does he have a right to it despite what we've discussed (my wanting to hear about every little detail)?
Yes he does, and yes he does. Despite what you two have discussed, it's obvious to me that he's not 100% ok with being required to tell you everything and with you pumping him for additional details. He's clearly doing it only to make you happy, which it doesn't even seem to be doing.

What about HER? Does SHE want privacy as far as their intimate relationship? Does SHE have a "right" to it (as if it's your place to decide that) despite what "we've" discussed? Was she part of this royal "we" you speak of? If so, I adjust my perspective accordingly, but I allow my statement to stand in case there are others reading this who might benefit.

Last but not least - you don't like that he gave her your phone number, but you have to know exactly how many times they each cum when they fuck? Is it ok with you if he tells her how many times you cum when he fucks you, and in what position(s)?

Surprise me. Say it ain't so.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:39 AM
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Two things...

First of all, I feel you with not wanting to be pushed into a friendship with the GF until ready. I have hurt my metamour's feelings in the past by not being as close to her as she thought we were (or wanted us to be) and all the pushing does is push me back, not forward. It might be best to make sure your hubby knows that the pushing will continue to backfire, and it'd be best to leave things up to you and the GF.

Second of all, my perspective as an endpoint of a "V" is that, if my metamour wanted to know every single detail of my sex life with my partner, I would have a talk with her, as soon as possible, and tell her that I am in no way comfortable with that (and if that were unacceptable, I would no longer be intimate with my partner, and would quite possibly end the relationship). I would honestly feel violated if my intimate moments with my partner, where I am at my most vulnerable, were shared outside of the two of us.

Remember that it's not just your hubby's privacy; it's hers too.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:15 AM
CalShep CalShep is offline
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So it's been a week. Read the replies, appreciate them- even the harsher advice, which was a much-needed wake-up call. I do want to clarify a couple of things-

-DH and I have trust issues from our past. Even a little slip is enough to send me into a tizzy, and I know that's something I need to work on. Me reading his phone is a habit I got into after said trust issues came about- we now have an open-book policy with our phones (mutually). It's also a way for me to be kept in the loop without him having to summarize every detail. He generally is totally OK with it, which was one of 2 reasons things blew up.

-The other being my (clinical) anxiety/depression. PMS and need for a med adjustment was magnifying everything way beyond scope.

GalaGirl- I always love your posts. You have an awesome way of breaking things down and it helped me to see things from another angle.

Quote:
Could ask him for time with him alone so you help yourself get your connection need met.

Could stop expecting him to mind reader your wants, needs and limits from the skies. He cannot meet a need he does not know you have right now.

Could let go of an unreasonable want for your partner to be mind reading psychic.
Thing is, we are typically excellent in our communication. The major stumbling blocks being my anxiety/insecurities and his occasional lapse in judgment or memory regarding things we've previously established. That's basically what kicked things down the hole.

Anyway, your links on the jealousy/exclusion were seriously helpful, as I think that's another one of my problems. My fear of rejection- to the extent of being constantly subconsciously doubtful of my worth as a person and partner. I need to work on that, for certain, completely re-train my mind.

Quote:
Last but not least - you don't like that he gave her your phone number, but you have to know exactly how many times they each cum when they fuck? Is it ok with you if he tells her how many times you cum when he fucks you, and in what position(s)?

Surprise me. Say it ain't so.
1. It was not that he gave her my number. It was that he knows how I despise being taken unawares but didn't take that into consideration. Did I overreact? Yes. But there was a modicum of justification for some manner of upset.

2. It doesn't bother me in the least her knowing about my sex life with DH. We're rather open about that sort of thing. And yes, he has cleared it with GF beforehand (they have not had full-on sex yet).

3. We do not *fuck*. We *make love*. Major distinction. I don't grill him over the nitty gritty out of some need for control- I'm, to put it bluntly, a voyeur. Ideally I'd love to be present for their intimate time, but she's not comfortable with that yet so I'm not. Instead I like to get to hear a seductively sexy tale of his evening with his GF. It enhances our love life. And if GF wasn't OK with it I would respect her wishes. I understand it came across wrong because of my mood at the time. It was less about the details and more about the overarching fear that he'd suddenly changed his mind completely on everything we'd talked about and was shutting me out.



Anyway, we had a long, soul-baring talk the other night and are still working things out. We've gotten to a neutral place, at least, where we can continue to make decisions from. Right now it's about me facing my fears and insecurities head on, and it might hurt for a bit but I need to force myself to see that everything's going to be OK. Learning that it's OK to speak up, that just saying "Hey, could we spend an evening together instead?" is not tantamount to nagging and controlling.

Tomorrow DH is (hopefully) going on an out of town trip with GF for all day. Originally I was going to take the kids up separately and meet them at the zoo, but money's tight so now it's just them. This is going to be a good proving ground for me. A chance for me to shut down the part of me that turns these emotional molehills into mountains.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:03 AM
CattivaGattina CattivaGattina is offline
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I noticed that you didn't answer if she was part of the discussion that DH has to tell you the details about their sex life. If not then DH saying he doesn't feel comfortable about that might (and probably is) because he talked to her about that and SHE isn't comfortable with her sex life being discussed with you.

Why does your want of hearing about it override her need of having that privacy?
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:19 AM
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I think you like being in control, but you call it insecurity and anxiety. It actually seems that any situation where someone else has a say about what's going on throws you off and you don't like it. You sound on the verge of a tantrum. This can't be good for you. You are stressing needlessly. I think you would benefit from not being in control. Let life be a little unpredictable and uncertain. Let go of the reins, let your husband manage his relationship and you manage yours (meaning yours with him, NOT his with her), try not to get so bent out of shape when things don't go your way, and stop being so nosy. Be a voyeur with someone else's sex life. Believe me, I say this in all seriousness and to be helpful - I think it would be good for you.
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-07-2013 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:11 AM
CalShep CalShep is offline
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Originally Posted by CattivaGattina View Post
I noticed that you didn't answer if she was part of the discussion that DH has to tell you the details about their sex life. If not then DH saying he doesn't feel comfortable about that might (and probably is) because he talked to her about that and SHE isn't comfortable with her sex life being discussed with you.

Why does your want of hearing about it override her need of having that privacy?
I did answer. I said that DH asked GF if it was OK and that she said she didn't mind. He and I had discussed and set up that guideline way before he ever met her, as well as many others. So when it came to her, he simply let her know all of our expectations and ideals and hopes, and she told him which ones she was OK with and which ones she wasn't. She's said she realized I'm a big part of his life and is extremely understanding. Like I said, I genuinely like her- I've realized this is generally a me problem at this point.

Quote:
I think you like being in control, but you call it insecurity and anxiety. It actually seems that any situation where someone else has a say about what's going on throws you off and you don't like it. You sound on the verge of a tantrum. This can't be good for you. You are stressing needlessly. I think you would benefit from not being in control. Let life be a little unpredictable and uncertain. Let go of the reins, let your husband manage his relationship and you manage yours (meaning yours with him, NOT his with her), try not to get so bent out of shape when things don't go your way, and stop being so nosy. Be a voyeur with someone else's sex life. Believe me, I say this in all seriousness and to be helpful - I think it would be good for you.
I call it anxiety because of my history of panic attacks and the medication I'm on and the psychiatrist who diagnosed me. I call them insecurities because they've been with me my whole life. If I like to feel like I'm in control, it's because of an irrational fear of being hurt, rejected, and abandoned. If I'm on the verge of anything it's another panic attack. It sucks, I hate it that I have such difficulty managing my emotions, and I hate that DH has to deal with it.

I also realize I ramble and tend to not communicate super well in this particular media. I spill out a bunch of words and then don't often slow down to proofread. Sorry.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CalShep View Post
Instead I like to get to hear a seductively sexy tale of his evening with his GF. It enhances our love life. And if GF wasn't OK with it I would respect her wishes. I understand it came across wrong because of my mood at the time. It was less about the details and more about the overarching fear that he'd suddenly changed his mind completely on everything we'd talked about and was shutting me out.
I'm glad you recognize that her feelings about what is shared are important. It's good to have respect for our partners, metamours, friends, acquaintances, etc.

Keep in mind that these rules you two have set up and are trying to abide by are entirely figments of your continued agreement. In your quote you were panicking a bit because you thought he'd changed his mind on something you'd talked about... it is unlikely that this won't happen at some point in the future. Peoples opinions change on topics, viewpoints get altered as we go along, what we once thought was our worldview suddenly seems to be something different altogether.

What I'm saying is, while the topic seems to be on your mind anyway you might as well start coming to grips with the fact that he may very well walk up to you one day and say "You know what, that thing we talked about, I don't think that's right anymore..."

An agreement which can't be modified when circumstances change stinks more of a law.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:03 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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After a certain point, i would grow weary of having to watch every move i make and wonder if something i do will suddenly send my Spouse into the Seventh Ring of Fire. I would not want to date someone whose spouse's kinks and mental illnesses followed our quality time around like a grey cloud ready to turn into a storm. I understand that this anxiety rules your life and you cling to that because it's familiar, but i do not understand why you must hold other people hostage to your brain chemistry.

Have you tried xanax? Wonderful substance. It has street value for recreational use but if you really suffer from anxiety or panic it's like getting relief from a migraine - you stop getting high off it after one or two days. If you tried it already and it made you sleepy, try a smaller dose. You can break the 0.25 mg ones in half.

Other than that, i don't see a solution to your problem from the outside. There comes a time when you will have to deal with your own shit at the root of the problem and not make some artificial link between your mental illness and someone else's behaviour. Even if he does exactly as you insist, that isn't going to make your panic attacks stop, it's just going to cause another person to suffer from your panic attacks too. That's not a very nice thing to do to your partner. Is that what you want? If you had MS or Parkinson's, would you want your partner to suffer vicariously from that?

Being supportive does not mean allowing the person with mental illness to use you as a tool to enable their pathological behaviour patterns.

As for your "voyeurism", you don't need to do that in order to survive. You won't vanish in a puff of greasy black smoke never to rise again just because you didn't get to hear a "play by play" of other people's sexy-time. The sooner you accept that you can't always have what you want when you want it, the better.
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