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  #421  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:00 PM
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LotusesandRoses LotusesandRoses is offline
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Originally Posted by Surriess View Post
to get back on topic...when to disclose poly?

I find it easiest to bring it up right away. why extend it and later find out that she may not be into it? because if you bring it up right away and find out shes not into it, move on to the next one! that is exactly what i do when i do my online dating at lavalife.

I have no idea why some people find it so hard to be honest.
Stephen King once put it as there's "the world," and then there's "the world beneath the world." To some people, that has an ugly connotation, the world beneath the world contain the things you can hide, the things people can miss, sometimes consciously don't want us to see, and what we really connect with or pull away from.

Making up an example, a "Man of the World," let's take Joe. Joe is a black guy, pretty easy-going, works in medical research, is nice to old people, children, animals, and the stupid. He's got abs you could grate cheese on.

A lot of folks meet Joe, and on a superficial level, are pretty impressed. Maybe they go in his house after a few dates, find out he only eats organic, doesn't touch alcohol, and is respectful of different lifestyles and cultures. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

And yet, if he comes out, and shows those things that you can't tell just by looking at him: That he's poly, that he's a man who has sex with men, that he's deeply into BDSM, that he doesn't want children... Instead of going from a pool of thousands who might meet him and find out he's wonderful to be with, he might get embarrassed in his own work and living community, as well as have a lot of lonely nights. Sometimes the right time for "the big reveal" is not a profile, a first date, or that initial chat at the farmer's market. It's when people really need to know who you are.

Then again, some folks like me prefer to burn bridges or make connections early on, but I would hardly argue my way is the right way, or the only way.
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  #422  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:20 PM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by LotusesandRoses View Post

And yet, if he comes out, and shows those things that you can't tell just by looking at him: That he's poly, that he's a man who has sex with men, that he's deeply into BDSM, that he doesn't want children...
With all due respect, anyone who would object to those things at first glance, will still object to them in three months time added to that feel betrayed by the lie of omission. Even as a person who can accept Poly, bi and kinky (obviously) as a parent, any man that does not want children is inherently unsuitable for me, I wouldn't want to waste time with someone committed to a childless future. And I would be hacked off to discover that only once I had become emotionally attached.
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  #423  
Old 03-17-2013, 05:55 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Insecurity is the "benefit of the doubt" reason. Unfortunately, far too often, people are dishonest because they want something, and they know the truth will impede them from getting it.

For example, one approach (of which I do not approve) is to tell someone you're poly only after they've started to fall for you, when you reach the point in the courtship where you start to talk about "having a relationship" instead of just "dating." By then, they know how well you get along and how they're starting to have feelings for you. So maybe poly isn't their first choice, and they wouldn't have let it get this far if they'd known ahead of time, but now they're willing to risk it, because you're "so wonderful."

Now in my opinion, this is nothing short of bait and switch. It's totally not cool. But, for some people, it gets them what they want, at least temporarily.

Some people also thrive on drama. I don't get it personally, I hate being involved in drama. But some people just aren't satisfied unless they're causing trouble for someone else.
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  #424  
Old 03-17-2013, 06:19 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Insecurity is the "benefit of the doubt" reason. Unfortunately, far too often, people are dishonest because they want something, and they know the truth will impede them from getting it.

That could be considered a form of insecurity.

I have a two-faced point of view about this. On one hand, I don't feel like I owe anybody any explanation or information until I am friends with them, on the other hand, I don't care what a stranger thinks about the way i live my life so i would be fine with telling someone about my open relationships at any time. Since I don't "look for" people to "have a relationship" with, it just comes up when it comes up, and since this topic specifically refers to "online", then it is worth mentioning that I have "Open Relationship with..." on my Facebook.
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  #425  
Old 03-17-2013, 09:32 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I completely agree with S's cat. And really, in my opinion, anyone who would have said "no" and ends up saying "yes" reluctantly because you bait and switched them will have to make a lot of effort, go through a lot of pain, and in the end might never manage to make it work.

It,s not worth hurting people like that just people you're too afraid to give yourself the chance to meet someone you,re actually compatible with.
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  #426  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:39 AM
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With all due respect, anyone who would object to those things at first glance, will still object to them in three months time added to that feel betrayed by the lie of omission.
Yes, but by then, he'll know that they won't gang rape and beat him, leaving him bleeding in a gutter.
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  #427  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:47 AM
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I did not know women were in the habit of doing that....learn something new every day!
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  #428  
Old 03-20-2013, 04:28 AM
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I did not know women were in the habit of doing that....learn something new every day!
No so much women, usually... but men can bait you online if you put it right in your profile or admit it before meeting in person.

Similarly, Joe could be dating a guy who knows he's gay, but doesn't know about all that kinky stuff. Finding out, the guy could get really creeped out and react in all kinds of ways.
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  #429  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
No so much women, usually... but men can bait you online if you put it right in your profile or admit it before meeting in person.
But if he is looking to date men, he would be advertising for men, so the disclosure that he has sex with men is a bit obvious and moot isn't it?
As far as I can see, the example was about withholding information that might be seen as prejudicial, we are all aware that some straight (and sadly probably some bi women too) would have a problem with a bi male partner, therefore I can understand why a man might want to keep that to himself if he wants to attract women, however, if he wants to attract men, why would he not disclose that on his profile? It would defeat the purpose.

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Similarly, Joe could be dating a guy who knows he's gay, but doesn't know about all that kinky stuff. Finding out, the guy could get really creeped out and react in all kinds of ways.
If a bloke is wont to be 'creeped' out,isn't it better that he knows beforehand (not that I have ever met this near mythical completely vanilla scared of kink gay man but let's just say he exists for arguments sake). Than it being thrown at him (especially if Joe is pretty extreme) later on in the middle of intimacy?

I can't see any point in Joe keeping these things secret, I know plenty of gay men in the kink scene, I even know very secure in their sexuality straight males that will play with men in the scene. I think if Joe is looking for men there is no problem and if he is looking for women though, this 'may' be a problem but as I wrote before, if she will have a problem in the profile, she will probably have a bigger problem if she hears about it once she gets her emotions involved, cue drama.....

Natja
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  #430  
Old 03-20-2013, 04:09 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
If a bloke is wont to be 'creeped' out,isn't it better that he knows beforehand (not that I have ever met this near mythical completely vanilla scared of kink gay man but let's just say he exists for arguments sake).
Oh, you must not live in the middle of Saskatchewan, Alberta, or Texas. I assure you, these people certainly do exist. You've not heard of gay bashing? You think it stops there??

Quote:
Than it being thrown at him (especially if Joe is pretty extreme) later on in the middle of intimacy?
There's a pretty big gap between "first date" and "middle of intimacy": the whole "getting to know someone" stage. You can disclose this kind of information anywhere in that period without expecting someone to feel betrayed or lied to.

If someone seriously feels betrayed that a potential partner didn't disclose their deepest and darkest secrets on the second date, then they need to pull their self-entitled head out of their ass. Some people are open books, but most people need a bit of time to build trust. Many have been burned before and are hesitant to risk that again.

No, it's not usually the risk of beatings and rape. I was obviously exaggerating for dramatic effect. But that doesn't mean Mr. First Date won't post about "this freak I met last night" all over Facebook, putting Joe's professional life at risk.

Quote:
I can't see any point in Joe keeping these things secret, I know plenty of gay men in the kink scene, I even know very secure in their sexuality straight males that will play with men in the scene.
Just because some people are out and open doesn't mean everyone can afford that privilege. The fact that you know about their sexuality just means they aren't in Joe's position.

Maybe instead of medical research, Joe is a school teacher, and even the suggestion that he might be into something kinky is enough to cost him his job. Teachers still get fired just for being gay. Sure, the administration makes up excuses to get around anti-discrimination laws... But do you really think it doesn't still happen? Do you honestly think that a Fundamentalist from the Bible Belt is going to let their child be educated by a gay-poly-kinky-freak?

You're in the scene, you go to fetish parties. You're out, your friends are out. That's awesome. But you need to realize that's a privilege, one that many people don't share. You know "plenty of gay men in the kink scene" because they're out; this whole conversation doesn't apply to them. But just because there's a handful of people who have a lifestyle that allows them to be out and proud doesn't mean there aren't 10x as many people scared for their jobs, if not lives, and forced to keep their secret safe.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 03-20-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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