Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:08 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Default

Unfortunately, I have calmed down, mellowed all the way out to the point of just kind of blowing in the direction of the wind, and I still want nothing to do with my wife's girlfriend. If anything, my decision has become even more solid and certain than when I first said that. Initially, it was an angry reaction. The anger has worn off because I refused to wallow in anger and self-pity, and I have something resembling peace in my life. I honestly want nothing to do with her. I don't want to be friends. I don't even want to be cordial. Any and all interaction would be forced. The more time progresses, the more I accept the fact that my life is better off without her being any part of it. Once I cut people out of my life, it's a done deal. No looking back. I'm not missing anything. For years, we had nothing, so it's like those days again only there's no need to be cordial.

These days, the only focus I have is my kids well-being and attempting to save my marriage. I can't remember why I loved my wife. I can't even say I trust her anymore. I'm working on forgiving her for various things. We're starting over and going back to the basics. When I do finally return home, things will be different. I'm still sorting out some things before I present the ideas to her, but I'm no stranger to making sacrifices. All I can do is wake up every day and move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:12 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

This-reminds me so much of where Maca was. We filed divorce papers. I agreed not to fight him in court over the kids and he could keep everything just to ensure our kids didn't suffer through court bs in addition to losing their family.
We lived apart for over a year.
I didn't pressure him to come home. I just accepted that was what he needed in that moment.
I didn't let myself think about the future.

You are right-emotional pressure is difficult.
Sounds like a lot of compromising self for someone else going on. Not healthy.

But-today you see it, so its a good time to change it.

There are compromises you can make that respect other people's needs while still holding a solid line on your own.
But-it will require that you start respecting your inner voive when it says no & that you reframe the lines between you and every other individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
And you want to know what Matt really thinks of Si now? Expendable and unneeded like tonsils or the gallbladder. They serve their purpose, and then you get rid of them if needed or if the time comes. After that, you can still live without them.

This ^^^ is what I'm up against. There's no mistaking that or no amount of counseling that can even begin to fix that. Add that to two people who aren't even willing to seek counseling together, a girlfriend who isn't allowed in your home, years worth of history, a dead friendship, strained relationships, two perceptions of what family is, and it's easy to see how I'm close to blowing a fuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
No problem. It had to happen. Whether it was a month ago, now, or six months down the line. Nothing was going to stop it from happening.

I'm the type of person who addresses whatever it is and leaps into action right then. I'm not for the talking game and let's find a happy-go-lucky resolution or pretend that there's a happy medium. That's not going to happen. I owned my feelings, released them, and decided what I had to do from that moment forward. Inner peace is a hell of a drug and what I've been missing.

I know it's driving a rift between us. I'm the odd guy out, so I've already decided to seek a divorce attorney and consult with someone versed in family law. I have to be prepared to leave if I know for sure that I cannot and will not live like this. My wife knows, and all I could do was tell her to do the same. I will fight her for custody with everything in me. I don't like surprise attacks, so she can't say I didn't tell her well in advance. I'm the one who doesn't want to be part of a poly ship/family or whatever this shit is. It stands to reason that I should be the one to leave, if it comes down to it. Then, she can continue living her life and practicing her lifestyle without me around or having me to contend with. I'm doing my damndest to keep it from heading down that path, but if it has to, she has been warned.

Cold blooded? No, I'm a realist. I realize the cards are stacked against me. I'm the only one who doesn't want to be part of this, so when this lands where does that leave me? On the outside looking in. I realize this might be hurting her. I realize she's torn. I realize my feelings. I realize her girlfriend isn't part of my future or my vision of nesting. I realize she's not my equal. I realize she's not in my marriage. I realize I can and will live without her being around. I realize that this is my wife's lifestyle, and if she wants to continue it, she has every right. If this doesn't come to a head, I will remove myself from the equation. Problem solved. If necessary, I realize that my wife and I may have to separate, divorce, and enter a custody dispute.

Nothing I'm saying here is a surprise to her. It may not be an easy pill to swallow. Do I want to move out? No, but our home is half hers, and once again, I am the only one who does not want to be part of a poly family. The kids love her. My wife loves her. I'm the one who doesn't. What do you do when something is not wanted? You get rid of it. If she just has to have her around and in our home, yes, I will move out. Then, she can be free to have her around, and her girlfriend can continue to bond with our children. They can be one big happy family without me being around.

It was one hell of an argument. I have no regrets. I wish it had happened sooner. Even if we had never slept together, it was still going to happen, still be heated, and still end with this result. Years worth of supposed hidden resentment amassed to something that spiraled out of control. The nesting impulse isn't that intense. I have a clear perception of what I view is nesting. That was clouded, but the picture is clear. It's us and her on the outside.

There is no middle ground. I have calmed down, and I feel like myself again. I have gotten everything off my chest. I'm saying everything that comes to mind and not holding back. The argument could have been handled better. I can't control how she reacted to what was being said. I said it in the nicest way possible without offending her. Don't ask me how I really feel about something if you can't handle the response. I'm still not apologizing. Any apology now would not be heartfelt and would be said in a forced way. I can't pretend to want her around when I know I don't.

It's not something from childhood. It's something that started later in life. I used to be pretty selfless and went along with quite a bit. It starts with one thing. Usually my wife's non-verbal insistence. A look or whatever it is she does to suggest things without saying them out loud. "No, I don't mind that you're poly. I guess I can live with it because I love you, and loving you means accepting or learning to live with certain things." You know what that turned into? This. I guess I really couldn't live it, and this was this moment for it to come out. "I guess I don't mind if she's part of doctor's appointments, if it's that important to you." This turned into being in the delivery room, being a co-parent, and the oldest calling her mom #2, so I can't severe that relationship. I could, but it would be traumatic for her. "I guess I don't mind if she joins us on this particular vacation, if it would make you happy." See the trend? A good old fashioned psychological ploy called emotional bulldozing. You want to say no, but due to pressure or duress, you say yes.

I'm not passive aggressive in everything. Just anything dealing with my wife and her other relationship. Trying to help keep her happy and respecting her relationship has lead to a lot of problems. I had to go back and think. Did I really want her in the delivery room? Did I really want her to be there when we saw the baby the first time? Did I really want her on family vacations? Did I really even want her to be part of "us" at all? Did I really ever want any of this and everything else I've thought about? Or did I just roll with it to keep the peace and to keep a smile on her face? Still working on those answers.

The hard line isn't really there anymore. I really don't want her around our kids, but who talked me out of that? The wife. I changed the pass code on the alarm panel. I took the key to the house back and they key card to the security panel at the start of our subdivision. I meant business. She's not welcome in our home or in my life, and it's clear now.

This thread isn't part of it. I can tune out the bullshit and form thoughts on my own. That's what I've been doing. I've had quite a bit of time to myself to think with cool head. I respect people's opinions and their thoughts. Sometimes it helps to have advice from someone who possibly feels the same way or has dealt with this. A therapist is trained to deal with issues, but how many have lived each and every situation?
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:26 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Along with that divorce involves a custody dispute.

do.
Why?
Kids, as noted by both of you will grow up and leave. In that process they will have relationships with people you don't (while still children).
Why exactly can't the two of you agree amicably to 50/50 parenting and respect one another as coparents?
Your issue isn't with your wife's parenting. So why create more pain and drama and expense?
Even if you win custody-she will have visitation rights and she will be allowed to socialize with anyone she wants WITH the kids.
Thats legal reality.

So, what is the gain of taking it to court battle? We aren't gorillas. There's no need to beat our fists against our chests to make a point.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:58 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I'm thinking entirely different now and searching for solutions that won't make everybody miserable in the end. I can't think or function while just sitting in a room brainstorming. I need to be able to think freely. Not with my heart but with my head. My heart is on an extended leave of absence. Now, that I have started the process of doing that, I can think of things that need to be addressed in therapy and find ways of communicating them the right way to my wife. I can't force her to be receptive or make any changes, but I can try to come up with ideas and solutions that aren't unilateral. That's the best that I can do from my end.
Sounding much more clear-headed and sensible in this post. Maybe people should suggest finding a place of peace instead of suggesting calm down. Because the "I am calm" posts read so very less sensibly than this one.

Fyi-my bf and my sister are coparents. They were full-time actually. However, the bottomline still gets decided between dh and I.
There is such a thing as having too many chiefs, not enough indians. Accepting input is great, from myriad sources. But-to make final decisions together, there must be complete teamwork.

I wonder if terminology differences might be catching things up regarding this stuff-between wife &husband?
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 03-17-2013, 09:30 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Matt-maybe that is unfortunate. Maybe not.
To be frank, it took over a year of having his feelings FULLY RESPECTED before Maca let go of the topic of divorce.
Two years before he could stomach the kids talking about GG.

A month-you have made awesome steps towards facing what matters to you. But I don't hear that you feel respected or understood regarding your needs.

I am glad she is admitting to some unreasonable things in counseling. So that you felt heard.

And Jane-yes, I have written ad nauseum on putting kids first. In a variety of examples. Including DIngedhearts original thread.

But I have limited my comments here in recent years. I have other higher priority obligations.


I only read this thread today as someone pointed it out to me and I am sitting in the hospital with my pukey, prego kiddo while she gets rehydrated and antinausea meds.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:07 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Default

Truth of the matter is I don't feel that some things are respected or understood completely. I say that because I don't get the feeling of 100% commitment or agreement with certain things I've suggested. Case and point. Our daughter's trial school term begins in July. During our last session, my wife claimed to understand and be on board moving ahead with the plans. Fast forward to a couple of days ago and she's back at it again. My wife: "I guess Si and I can handle having a long-distance relationship, but if we were to reconsider and stay, that wouldn't even have to be an option." I can't say for sure, but her girlfriend has to be buzzing in her ear. She hears me, but it's like everything talked about in therapy oozes out of her ears like green slime that acts as amnesia agent. We take one step forward and ten back. I know what she's trying to do. Make me feel bad and like I'm the cause that they'll be in a long-distance relationship. Totally forgetting that this is what she has always wanted and ultimately decided on after many discussions. She still wants me to compromise and bend, but I won't break like she's hoping. Hell, I've been doing that, and it has to change. I can't keep being so accommodating and sacrificing my happiness to please her. God forbid if they break up. That may end up being my fault, too. I can hear it now. "Matt insisted that we move, and the distance just proved to be too much of a strain, so I feel that he's indirectly the blame for the untimely demise of our relationship." If I rolled my eyes, this would be the perfect spot for it.

I'm giving it time, but there's no guarantee any of it will do any good. I know there will be setbacks. I still don't believe my wife is fully grasping everything I'm saying. I swear she's only trying now because divorce is on the table, and I think she knows I mean business and that I will leave her if nothing changes. She probably thought it was a game and figured she'd call my bluff. I flat out asked her why she was trying now and acting like she cares so much when just weeks and months ago she didn't give a damn about my concerns? Valid question. Still no answer.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:26 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

She may not know the answer.
In the big picture, this is all pretty sudden.

You are right about needing to not bend on topics that are hard limits for you.

In our situation, we both did that. We also both would avoid saying what we really needed-in an effort not to hurt each other.

The consequences were severe.

Things were so bleak and hopeless-even the psychologist advised bailing.

Ironic-when we both got brutal honest about sticking up for our needs-the problems were resolvable and we worked it out.

But no one could have predicted that.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:32 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Default

Once she figures it out, I may consider giving more than partial effort in therapy. If she can't answer why she cares, I don't agree with giving my all. The imbalance is apparent. I bet she can tell why she cares about her girlfriend without missing a breath. I can tell her why she was important to me and why I cared without having to take days to think about it or responding with, "I don't know." I have cared enough for both us lately, and I'm tired of it. I tried to tell her my fears, concerns, and she didn't listen. Well, that's cool. No one can tell me it's love when somebody becomes immune to you hurting. If it falls apart, at least I'll know I did my best to save it. I can't be the only one who cares or who is willing to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
She may not know the answer.
In the big picture, this is all pretty sudden.

You are right about needing to not bend on topics that are hard limits for you.

In our situation, we both did that. We also both would avoid saying what we really needed-in an effort not to hurt each other.

The consequences were severe.

Things were so bleak and hopeless-even the psychologist advised bailing.

Ironic-when we both got brutal honest about sticking up for our needs-the problems were resolvable and we worked it out.

But no one could have predicted that.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:50 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default for mom and dad-and feel free to print and share with gf too

It does take both of you to fix all that is wrong.

I am a "lets get this done now" person too.
But, Maca requires more time (alone usually) to think through things before he can tell me why he feels anything.
For a long time there he blew off my emotions as though they didn't exist.

When I set my foot down about having feelings and needing answers he was shocked.
It took a few months for the shock to be replaced with deeper thought and consideration on his part to figure out wtf he was thinking.

Frustrating couple of months for me-I was silent-but damn I wanted to tell him where to f-off.

However, I'm glad I kept my silence, because that forced him to actually consider the questions instead of me bursting out with "is it this?" "It looks like this" "it sounds like this" "I think you xyz". So he really had to get introspective and consider himself. Which isn't something he had ever done. He had all of these ideas of what he believed in, what was right, what was wrong etc. But no clue WHY.
When he was forced to stop and consider, he found out that a lot of those beliefs were based upon ideas he picked up as a child and simply never reconsidered again. Upon reconsideration, he realized that maybe he ought to be using more of the brain he has and looking at life TODAY RIGHT NOW and considering wtf he wants to do with it.

Anyway-only she knows if she is willing to get down and dirty with herself. Only you know if you are willing to get down and dirty with yourself.

I suggest it.
Not for your marriage (it may make or break that).
But for yourself individually.
Just taking time to start looking at your life and figuring out all of the creative adaptations you can make to get to where you want; really helps with ensuring that you can get there more easily. That way if you get road blocked in one avenue, you already have dozen's of other possibilities ahead of you.
Also-having a clear understanding of why you feel how you feel tends to make it easier to say "these are my hard limits-I won't compromise in. These are my soft limits, I MIGHT compromise them IF the return is valuable enough to me."
That makes it much easier to find people who are good matches for you (this is true of romance and coworkers etc).

Finally, I worked for over 10 years writing, filing and handling the custody battles of people going through divorce.
It quite definitely CAN happen without a huge battle and it's always better for the kids when it does.
I HIGHLY advise making the topic of the kids and that priority a BIG topic in counseling. Regardless of how the rest of the topics go down-the kids care is always going to be an issue.
I see no sound reason for changing the agreement you previously made regarding your daughter. If this school was agreed upon as what was best for her-and the only thing holding it up is the girlfriend not wanting to move-the answer is simple:
It's not about adult want. It's about child best interest. Mom needs to sit down and consider,

if child has a best interest (that is need or important want) and girlfriend has a want (or dad or mom or any other adult for that matter); the child's NEEDS and IMPORTANT wants need to come first, before adult personal preference.
That's part of life.
IF child and girlfriend were in a car accident, both are injured and bleeding out on the ground-only one emergency worker shows up at first... who do they go to?

....

....

...
....

the child. As a parent we want them to go to our child, even if we are the adult dying beside the child.

I realize-school isn't life or death. BUT education can have a negative impact on a child for the rest of their adult life. So it is a VERY VERY important topic.

My kids aren't as young as yours. But, I recall those days well. My oldest is 21. My youngest is 5.
The other day, my oldest was talking to me about what the most important thing in her life as a child was (in her opinion). She told me it was knowing that even though her dad and I separated when she was only a couple months-we ALWAYS put her needs above personal preference. We worked together to ensure that her needs were met.
She got the best education we could manage. She got peaceful communication between myself, my husband, her father and her stepmother.
She got the security that comes with knowing, no one was ever going to usurp her place of importance as our child.
We both remarried-but our spouses also put the NEEDS of the child before personal preference and that has meant working jobs we didn't want, living where we would have preferred to move, moving when we preferred not to move etc.

There are concessions that come with being a parent.
AND there are concessions that come with dating a parent.
Period.

So-make that topic key in counseling-and put your whole heart into it. The rest-you can't make progress in without both of you on board anyway-but you can show that your first priority is ensuring the best interests of your children. (this isn't to say that a good relationship doesn't come first-it's to say that at the heart of rebuilding that relationship-IF it can be rebuilt in ANY form-is ensuring that as a team you make sure the kids aren't just "safe" but have their BEST interests in mind-not just the bare minimum requirements)
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:48 PM
Matt Matt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 89
Default

I can definitely understand that. My kids always come first, and at the end of the day, I only want what's best for them and what will be in their best interest. I know that divorce is challenging and lengthy custody disputes aren't what's best for them. They're why I'm even trying to save this shipwreck of a marriage and considering trying to put the pieces together. If we didn't have kids, I'd be leaning towards cutting my losses and walking away.

I have put my time away from her to good use. I've limited contact with her. I'm beginning to understand why my beliefs are the way that they are. I'm learning what I can live with and what I can't. I've had a lot of time to myself. I'm working out how I want things to be. Some things can be compromised. Other things may require further discussion. The biggest thing I need is for my limits to be respected. I haven't suggested anything unreasonable like end the relationship and give up polyamory. Nothing even close. Even if she does stick to moving, at no point have I suggested that she give up her relationship. By them being separated, in her mind, it might as well be the same thing.

My wife has not only put her girlfriend and their relationship ahead of me and our marriage, but I see where it's happening with our kids now. She's a good mother, but I see some of those same behaviours emerging. Like I told her, if she's that concerned with her girlfriend, she can stay there, and we will move. She didn't like that suggestion. She agreed to proceed with the plans, but after talking to her girlfriend, she's right back to where we started. Her girlfriend knows we're in therapy and trying to work out issues, so it almost seems intentional that she's trying to screw up any progress. This is another reason why I don't consider her a co-parent. A real parent would put their child's best interests first and their wants second. With my wife, her girlfriends wants are seemingly the only thing that matters. Our daughter is looking forward to attending school, and she has her heart set on it. I won't let my wife, her relationship, or her girlfriend get in the way of her happiness. That's a hard limit that I won't compromise on.

The kids need to be a topic from this point on. Everything and anything we do will ultimately affect them. I think our therapist was trying to get to root of our problems, and slowly but surely, they're emerging. I can see how that's important because our marriage or any future relationship should ideally be healthy and set an example for them. I'm trying to be open minded and protect my heart at the same time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:38 AM.