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  #141  
Old 03-12-2013, 03:24 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
BoringGuy, I am responding to people. That is all. I have taken my own advice. This is my last post. Wish you all well in everything you do. Bye.

OK, thank you for your answer. Good luck!
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  #142  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:09 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Our children aren't old enough for that, so it would be out of our hands and based on a number of factors or solely at the judge's discretion.
If both parents can behave like grown-ups, the courts will never swoop in and take it out of their hands, unless the parents are unfit. At the rate you're going, you are showing signs of being unfit. A parent who deserves an input in their children's lives truly wants what's best for them, and isn't willing to just throw them under the bus as a casualty of war just because talking to the other parent is too uncomfortable.

If you can't communicate like a grown-up, get a mediator. They help you create agreements with the other parent, but without lawyers and judges.

But you're on your crusade and obviously you don't care what anyone thinks but yourself. I only hope your children have the strength of spirit to not be destroyed by your selfishness.
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  #143  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:58 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Well ya know, Matt hasn't DONE any of this yet - he's just thinking about it. The more folks try to talk him out of it, though...

Quote:

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and
snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid.
Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world
serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs. Feed
it off an aux speak, grunt, no, strength, Ladder
start to clatter with fear fight down height. Wire
in a fire, representing seven games, a government
for hire and a combat site. Left of west and coming in
a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck. Team
by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped.
Look at that low playing! Fine, then. Uh oh,
overflow, population, common food, but it'll do. Save
yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs,
listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and
the revered and the right, right. You vitriolic,
patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty
psyched.
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  #144  
Old 03-12-2013, 09:52 PM
Dirtclustit Dirtclustit is offline
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Default so what are saying exactly Boring Guy?

I guess I don't see the relevance of the excerpt of the poem. Is posting lyrics telling just a passive aggressive way of asking him why he is posting here?
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  #145  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:27 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirtclustit View Post
I guess I don't see the relevance of the excerpt of the poem. Is posting lyrics telling just a passive aggressive way of asking him why he is posting here?
No.

By the way, that is an incorrect use of the term "passive aggressive". I don't care how what wiki says, the classic example of passive-aggressive is when someone agrees to one thing to get you off their case, and then does whatever they want anyway. It has nothing to do with posting lyrics to ask a person why he is posting here. That does not even make sense. Why would i even do that? I already asked him why he is still posting and he answred me, and i thanked him. Pay attention.

The lyrics are to the song "It's the end of the world as we know it" and i think they're self explanatory to why they describe this situation. If you don't get it, that's not my problem. I wasn't writing that post in response to something you said.
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  #146  
Old 03-13-2013, 08:57 AM
laughingowl laughingowl is offline
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Default Hope you do read this even if you dont reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
BoringGuy, I am responding to people. That is all. I have taken my own advice. This is my last post. Wish you all well in everything you do. Bye.
Matt:

First My condolences to all three of you, this is certainly not want ANY of you wanted.

My one piece of advise which haven't directly seen others give is... you say you aren't hurting. Your own words though call that false though, " I care about my wife's feelings ..... I don't want to hurt her...." yet you know this is hurting her, so you are doing something you dont want to do, even if it is what you feel you need to do... you ARE hurting.

This hurt can and does impair your judgement. Which is the one reason folks have suggested going slow...

Personally I have gout, and when it flairs up I have seriously considered cutting my foot off. Now for most folks out there this may sound rather extreme (and I am glad I never did); however to anyone that has gout, they will tell you during a bad attack, the thought of a home amputation COULDN't hurt any worse....

Likewise right now you hurt, now it may be the foot needs to come off and the damage done is bad enough that is the best option.

The catch is make sure WHY you are cutting the foot off. Are you cutting it off because right now the pain is so bad you can't stand it, and you think the only way you ever will be happy is if it is gone... or have you (or better yet an expert) looked at it and decided the damage is so bad the foot will never be healthy again, and they only way for YOU to be healthy is if the foot is cut off.

So if it is over, its over so be it, but separate yourself a bit, and let the passion die about and think about it. Your own words do imply you have feelings for your wife, so even if not for HER sake.... do lash out and do something that in the long run will make YOU more unhappy.

All things end in life and we can not change that; what we CAN change is how the progress through life, and HOW they end. If its over after any reasonable effort, its over, but you do owe it to yourself (and the others), to try to make as much effort to see to EVERYONES (yours as well as theirs) in finding an ending that do everyone as much good as possible.
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  #147  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:17 AM
laughingowl laughingowl is offline
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Default To all involved (and others going through similar)

The one other advise I would give to all involved here (and anyone going through anything vaguely similar).


Life, Happiness, 'Goodness' is too precious to waste.

Sure if something is over its over, and it can be difficult but address issues, and ultimately move on. (whether separate, or moving on past the issue).

But in the end all things do change, so even the 'perfect' relationship (or movie, or date, or .....) can change into something you are not happy with.

The point is try no to let: anger, dissappointment, saddness, hatred, or what ever darnkness overcome you. Sure you may say tis is a crappy way to break-up, or that was crappy, you very likely are hurt, and that is normal, but don't let that hurt overshadow potentially years of your life.

When this is done, hopefully the 'dark days' will be that blip you skip over... try to leave it so even when its over, you focus on / you remember not the 'break-up' but:

Rather:
The feeling when you child took their first steps.
The look in your wife's' eye when she first held you child.
The anticipation when you asked your wife to marry you, before she answered.
The first time your wife feel asleep in your arms.


I am sure you can come up with other good memories if you can over look the current pain (some of which may even surprise you).

But agan the point is... IF (and even you still say you will try everything A-Y), it is over, then its over move on figure out how tomake everyone as happy as possible... but don't lessen yourelf because something change and deny years of your life.

I personlly have memories of Star Trek, as being the coolest, most awesome thing in the universe and don't want to lessen my younger years, by diminishing those memories... even if I am not sure you could get me to sit still for an original series episode now without staples and good glue.

Likewise IF your current 'thing' is over let it go, deal fairly and honestly but let it gone, and remember NOT the breakup, but rather all the good times.

Peace and best wishes to all of you on finding your happiness where ever it lies.
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  #148  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:41 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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TGIG ....I think you're confused on a couple of things .

First let me ask if you think its possible for someone to have an awakening.? Do you understand the premise of the reverse awakening as it applies here.?
Quote:
2) There's a difference between realizing that poly exists and is a possibility after years of mono, versus realizing after years of poly that you don't really want it at all and were just going along with it to make someone else happy. Sticking with mono because you aren't aware of other options is quite different from sticking with mono OR poly because you're trying to make someone else happy by not being honest with yourself about what you want.
#2 If a person was a serial monogamist, a cheater, etc for years (history) ...finally gets married ...commits to a traditional mono marriage.. is happy for several years ...has kids ....more years pass ... not so happy for a period of time and then he or she reads a book see's a tv show has a dream or whatever and boom it clicks I"M POLY ...I"M wiring for non monogamy.
Is that person a liar? Was he or she Lying to themselves and their spouse all that time ?

Where's the line in trying to assimilate trying to make things work for your wife/ marriage, the greater dynamic AND doing things "just" to make someone else happy.

I think he knew what he wanted and I think he was trying hard to see if it he could achieve a watered down version of his ideal and giving her what she wanted. Does that make it a lie ?


Quote:
1) You ALWAYS have to consider the spouse and kids, imo. I'm never one to say, "You have to stay married because that's what you agreed to" but he DOES have a responsibility to his kids, at the very least. For those who realize they want poly after years of mono, I say the SAME THING: go SLOWLY. Be gentle with your spouse's feelings. Take BABY STEPS. Remember that other people's lives are entwined with yours and RESPECT that. How in the hell is anything different being said in this case?!?
#1 Yes people should consider the spouse and kids, but thinking with in the strict confines of the reverse awaking concept when does it happen in regular awaking ? I've never seen anyone suggest they should carefully weigh the effects of changing the marital dynamic on children when considering taking up a poly lifestyle with a reluctant spouse. Ive read a lot of threads never seen that. Please list the ones you've said that on.


Quote:
3) The full stop is the problem. That wouldn't be "celebrated" in a mono-to-poly relationship either. He's making quick, unilateral, devastating decisions. Like if I woke up today and said, "Oh, sorry MC, I've spent the last month or so thinking about it and I don't want to be married to you anymore. I'm going to take the kids and move in with TGIB." Umm, NO, that would NOT be okay, or encouraged, or fucking celebrated. I'd be out of my damned mind and extremely hurtful and disrespectful to the person I chose to have kids with.
#3 the word "celebrated" was used to describe how a new person is treated upon their personal awakening. The words of support to the new member. Following that internal wiring....not on the particulars of their executing their plans for their new lifestyle or the effects it had on others within their sphere.



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The general advice is to be patient and provide educational materials, and emotional support to the partner caught flat footed. It's their identity thats who they are except and deal. In this case it's the opposite....compromise ...His identity for her time management and being a "co" partner. He doesn't want to be a co partner . Fuck that ....that doesnt matter it's his culturally caused repressed emotions causing a knee jerk reaction.
Yeah, the general advice is to be patient and LEARN MORE. So what's the problem with applying it here?? Learn what these feelings really are, where they come from, and take TIME to figure out if they can be gotten past/dealt with. It took 12 YEARS to get here, I don't understand what's so awful about recommending 12 MONTHS to figure out where everyone wants to go from here.
Nothing wrong with the suggestion of taking his time and thinking it through. It seems he's being judged for his decision. He British so he's got cultural baggage surrounding repressed emotions. Why can't he have a mono identity? That seem to be belittled by those thing. Her identity must be honored ...and his can be compromised. the compromise is his ideal partnership and life for some time management. How would you do that with gay person ?

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Recently on 3 active threads the struggling spouse or mono partner was advised to end the relationship....if ya cant get a handle on your emotions ....if your miserable all the time end it, Chalk it up to relationship life cycle, hard limits, knowing when to say when.....incompatibility. But not in a case of reverse awakening.

It just seems you cant have it both ways ....it seems unfair.

I assume to all here thinking these thought that their transition from mono to poly was met with complete love and understanding.
It's all about how much time has been put into it, in either direction. The wife has put 12 years into her poly relationship as the hinge in a V before learning that her husband didn't want poly. I put 10 years into my relationship with my husband before I added a boyfriend, and MC knew the entire time that I was non-monogamous. If he suddenly decides one morning that he doesn't want this/me/my lifestyle then yeah, he damned well BETTER be prepared to put some time in to working through things. We may still end up split if our differences turn out to be irreconcilable, but he's not going to be able to just walk out and "decide" to remove himself from the equation. Not when he married me and decided to have kids with me knowing EXACTLY who and how I was.
This is a very valid point and agree with you. Also a flaw in my logic is the difference is the author's point of view. The strugglers that I was thinking about were the partners of the "awakened " In this case ...(reverse awaking ) that advice should be given to FOL and like you said after an appropriate amount of time of her struggling to be mono.

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Matt's wife didn't force him to be part of something he didn't want. He CHOSE to and told her he was okay with it, and funnily enough she chose to believe her spouse. So pardon me if I think slowing down before drastic actions are taken is his price to pay now.
Yeah ....i didn't force my wife either. I asked along the way ...even paid for marriage counseling for god knows how long. Funny enough I chose to believe mine too. How do you slow down on an Identity ?

A person walks up and says "sorry honey I'm gay" .....how do you slow that down. How do you compromise.
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  #149  
Old 03-13-2013, 10:03 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
TGIG ....I think you're confused on a couple of things .
Different point of view does not equal confused.

Quote:
First let me ask if you think its possible for someone to have an awakening.?
No, not in the sense that you're using the word. A sudden realization? Sure. A sudden realization that MUST be acted upon RIGHT NOW?? No.
Quote:
Do you understand the premise of the reverse awakening as it applies here.?
Understand, sure. Even sympathize with (especially now after Matt's more extensive explanation, which laid out far deeper issues than just "I don't want to be poly anymore" and a more balanced outlook on the next few steps). But agree with? No. I don't care what your realization is- gay, poly, atheist, whatever (and I've been through "awakenings" on all those topics), you don't have to rush into ANYTHING. If you suddenly realize you need to stop drinking, fine, stop drinking. But something that has the potential to drastically affect, even damage your relationships, particularly with your children? Slow down and take your time. Which the OP seems to be saying he IS doing. I think some of his more emotional posts gave the impression to some of us (me included) that he was rushing into drastic action. But if that isn't the case, good, and I wish them all the best in trying to work this whole thing out.

Quote:
#2 If a person was a serial monogamist, a cheater, etc for years (history) ...finally gets married ...commits to a traditional mono marriage.. is happy for several years ...has kids ....more years pass ... not so happy for a period of time and then he or she reads a book see's a tv show has a dream or whatever and boom it clicks I"M POLY ...I"M wiring for non monogamy.
Is that person a liar? Was he or she Lying to themselves and their spouse all that time ?
This got addressed in another thread, I believe, when Jane brought up a good example. If they really truly didn't realize because they didn't know it was an option, then I will take back any accusation of lying and they can just be mistaken about what they wanted. Being mistaken is fine, we're human. If they were avoiding introspection out of fear or because they were trying to make someone else happy/not be alone, then they were at the very least lying to themselves, and possibly lying to their partner.

Quote:
Where's the line in trying to assimilate trying to make things work for your wife/ marriage, the greater dynamic AND doing things "just" to make someone else happy.
Good question. I would say that, like the compromise that gets discussed here so often, it has to do with finding a solution that BOTH/ALL parties are content with. If you aren't reasonably content with the result, then it's not the right/appropriate solution yet. And obviously, Matt was not content if resentment has been building up for this long (along with other issues, apparently, regarding how his wife manages her relationships).

Quote:
#1 Yes people should consider the spouse and kids, but thinking with in the strict confines of the reverse awaking concept when does it happen in regular awaking ? I've never seen anyone suggest they should carefully weigh the effects of changing the marital dynamic on children when considering taking up a poly lifestyle with a reluctant spouse. Ive read a lot of threads never seen that. Please list the ones you've said that on.
First of all, to me that's a faulty premise and therefore not answerable since I don't agree with your concept of "awakening". Second of all, seriously?!? I'm not going to do your homework for you. You want to know where I've said it, or GalaGirl, or anyone who deals with poly and kids, you can go look it up. If you search for pregnancy that would probably be fastest. There have been several threads where people have recommended slowing down and not opening yet when you're already dealing with adding a baby. From everything I've read (here and elsewhere) the general consensus is that poly is not detrimental to children as long as people are respectful, considerate, and responsible in their move to/practice of poly. That includes slowing down/waiting if someone isn't ready yet. In this reverse case I would apply that as staying respectful and considerate of his wife, even though he no longer wants to be part of a poly relationship, and responsibly working towards either a new agreement or a separation, whichever way it ends up going.

Quote:
#3 the word "celebrated" was used to describe how a new person is treated upon their personal awakening. The words of support to the new member. Following that internal wiring....not on the particulars of their executing their plans for their new lifestyle or the effects it had on others within their sphere.
There tends to be greater support given for those going against the norm rather than those going back to the norm. That's human nature. And this is a POLYAMORY board. Yeah, there's going to be more support for those trying to work towards poly rather than away from it. So I guess I'm not sure of your point. If you're complaining because a poly board supports people trying to be poly more than people trying to not be poly, besides "No kidding" I don't know what else to tell you.

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Nothing wrong with the suggestion of taking his time and thinking it through. It seems he's being judged for his decision. He British so he's got cultural baggage surrounding repressed emotions. Why can't he have a mono identity? That seem to be belittled by those thing. Her identity must be honored ...and his can be compromised. the compromise is his ideal partnership and life for some time management. How would you do that with gay person ?
No, his identity as such was not belittled. Just the way he seemed to rush in the complete opposite direction after so many years. If there's no rush, no drastic actions taken in the heat of anger and cold of hurt/revenge, then fine. It may still be a difficult, painful process for them to work out what they each actually want and whether or not they are compatible in a relationship, but that's life.

Quote:
How do you slow down on an Identity ?

A person walks up and says "sorry honey I'm gay" .....how do you slow that down. How do you compromise.
You don't slow down an identity. That's ludicrous (yes, I know that's your point). But you absolutely have a choice in how quickly you ACT on that identity. I went through the first 6 years of my dating life not realizing I was bi. Once I figured it out it was still another couple of years before I dated a girl. And it didn't kill me. I wasn't even particularly miserable. Same with poly. MC and I have taken baby steps for YEARS to get to this point. We've gone from "Flirting, dancing with and making out with someone else at a party is okay as long as the other isn't there" to me having a second committed sexual relationship that we're trying to turn into cohabitation. But that was over the course of 15 YEARS. No one is going to DIE if they keep their status quo for a little longer while they communicate and work out what the issues really are (unless, of course, it's an abusive situation. Then they absolutely need to Get Out Now).
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  #150  
Old 03-13-2013, 10:36 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I'll have to do my homework before addressing all your points TGIG but before I read some 520 odd post do you remember telling a newbie who had experienced "a sudden realization " that he or she should consider the impact of such a decison on the children .

Could you give me a hint as two how many there might be ....rough guess. Just a range

Thanks d
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