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  #121  
Old 03-11-2013, 06:10 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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You kept things bottled up inside, basically lied to yourself AND your wife AND her girlfriend for TWELVE YEARS. And now you've made this drastic, 180-degree turn in the space of what, a month??

I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings. You've realized what you feel, what you want and what you don't want. Great.

But your apparent desire to change things quickly needs desperately to be tempered. It took a LONG time to get to this point. It is absolutely appropriate for it to take a long time to reach a point of equilibrium again. Yes, steps should be taken now that the problem has been realized, but BABY steps. Nothing that is set in stone or potentially damaging to the kids, who are caught in the middle of a situation they didn't create. Frankly I don't care how much you're someone who wants to leap into action. This isn't the time. We try to teach kids to think about their actions and not just go with the knee-jerk response, and it sounds like you need to do that too. In your hurt, you've made it all about YOU, justifying it in your head that you put up with so much for so long. But it doesn't sound like you're adequately acknowledging that after TWELVE YEARS OF LYING, you've turned your wife's life on it's EAR. This is NOT all about you. It is finally about all three of you, maybe, rather than just the two of them, but IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!

Hopefully the therapy helps. I find it odd that you don't like therapists when you cited your therapist's words as justification for your decisions/actions a couple of times. I'm glad you're continuing it, and I hope you're successful in keeping an open mind during it.
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  #122  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:21 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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How is this situation appreciably different than the many people who arrive at their poly identity and come her for help. Hundreds of intro threads tell the exact same story ..had this history ...found this great guy or gal settled down ...was ok for years ...now 10-12 yrs later ...POOF I know... the " awakening "

Its perfectly fine to wake up one day and want an open marriage or want a poly marriage or non monogamy ... it's excepted .... it's encouraged ....it's fucking celebrated .. ...but not the opposite. Holy shit HE's unreasonable.... he's dishonest .....he's hurtful....vindictive..... for putting a full stop to that which he no longer wants. Now you have to consider the spouse and the kids.

The general advice is to be patient and provide educational materials, and emotional support to the partner caught flat footed. It's their identity thats who they are except and deal. In this case it's the opposite....compromise ...His identity for her time management and being a "co" partner. He doesn't want to be a co partner . Fuck that ....that doesnt matter it's his culturally caused repressed emotions causing a knee jerk reaction.

Recently on 3 active threads the struggling spouse or mono partner was advised to end the relationship....if ya cant get a handle on your emotions ....if your miserable all the time end it, Chalk it up to relationship life cycle, hard limits, knowing when to say when.....incompatility. But not in a case of reverse awakening.



It just seems you cant have it both ways ....it seems unfair.

I assume to all here thinking these thought that their transition from mono to poly was met with complete love and understanding.

Last edited by dingedheart; 03-11-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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  #123  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:50 PM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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I have to agree with dinged heart. I further have to say that finding out aafter the fact a join decision regarding our child was being sank because of other partner,s sudden decision not to move and me only finding out about it durung an argument would cause me to want distance to.


Seems like matt isn't being supported because he is saying he can't do it so he will leave not force his wife to give up poly.
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  #124  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:54 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
How is this situation appreciably different than the many people who arrive at their poly identity and come her for help. Hundreds of intro threads tell the exact same story ..had this history ...found this great guy or gal settled down ...was ok for years ...now 10-12 yrs later ...POOF I know... the " awakening "

Its perfectly fine to wake up one day and want an open marriage or want a poly marriage or non monogamy ... it's excepted .... it's encouraged ....it's fucking celebrated .. ...but not the opposite. Holy shit HE's unreasonable.... he's dishonest .....he's hurtful....vindictive..... for putting a full stop to that which he no longer wants. Now you have to consider the spouse and the kids.
1) You ALWAYS have to consider the spouse and kids, imo. I'm never one to say, "You have to stay married because that's what you agreed to" but he DOES have a responsibility to his kids, at the very least. For those who realize they want poly after years of mono, I say the SAME THING: go SLOWLY. Be gentle with your spouse's feelings. Take BABY STEPS. Remember that other people's lives are entwined with yours and RESPECT that. How in the hell is anything different being said in this case?!?

2) There's a difference between realizing that poly exists and is a possibility after years of mono, versus realizing after years of poly that you don't really want it at all and were just going along with it to make someone else happy. Sticking with mono because you aren't aware of other options is quite different from sticking with mono OR poly because you're trying to make someone else happy by not being honest with yourself about what you want.

3) The full stop is the problem. That wouldn't be "celebrated" in a mono-to-poly relationship either. He's making quick, unilateral, devastating decisions. Like if I woke up today and said, "Oh, sorry MC, I've spent the last month or so thinking about it and I don't want to be married to you anymore. I'm going to take the kids and move in with TGIB." Umm, NO, that would NOT be okay, or encouraged, or fucking celebrated. I'd be out of my damned mind and extremely hurtful and disrespectful to the person I chose to have kids with.

Quote:
The general advice is to be patient and provide educational materials, and emotional support to the partner caught flat footed. It's their identity thats who they are except and deal. In this case it's the opposite....compromise ...His identity for her time management and being a "co" partner. He doesn't want to be a co partner . Fuck that ....that doesnt matter it's his culturally caused repressed emotions causing a knee jerk reaction.
Yeah, the general advice is to be patient and LEARN MORE. So what's the problem with applying it here?? Learn what these feelings really are, where they come from, and take TIME to figure out if they can be gotten past/dealt with. It took 12 YEARS to get here, I don't understand what's so awful about recommending 12 MONTHS to figure out where everyone wants to go from here.

Quote:
Recently on 3 active threads the struggling spouse or mono partner was advised to end the relationship....if ya cant get a handle on your emotions ....if your miserable all the time end it, Chalk it up to relationship life cycle, hard limits, knowing when to say when.....incompatility. But not in a case of reverse awakening.

It just seems you cant have it both ways ....it seems unfair.

I assume to all here thinking these thought that their transition from mono to poly was met with complete love and understanding.
It's all about how much time has been put into it, in either direction. The wife has put 12 years into her poly relationship as the hinge in a V before learning that her husband didn't want poly. I put 10 years into my relationship with my husband before I added a boyfriend, and MC knew the entire time that I was non-monogamous. If he suddenly decides one morning that he doesn't want this/me/my lifestyle then yeah, he damned well BETTER be prepared to put some time in to working through things. We may still end up split if our differences turn out to be irreconcilable, but he's not going to be able to just walk out and "decide" to remove himself from the equation. Not when he married me and decided to have kids with me knowing EXACTLY who and how I was.

Matt's wife didn't force him to be part of something he didn't want. He CHOSE to and told her he was okay with it, and funnily enough she chose to believe her spouse. So pardon me if I think slowing down before drastic actions are taken is his price to pay now.
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  #125  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:21 AM
Matt Matt is offline
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This thread is still going I see. I have some catching up to do, so before I properly respond, I'll go read through what has recently been added.
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  #126  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:44 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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My main concern is the early talk about custody battles, basically already planning that you won't be able to work it out and come to a peaceful agreement. Well, going in with that attitude, you sure won't.

Divorce is really hard on kids, even when the parents are amicable and supportive and peaceful. When kids are being fought over, with each parent pretending to "do what's best for the kids," it becomes traumatic. Your kids are in their formative years and custody battles can take years.

Good school or not, I promise that Mom and Dad fighting over them in court is NOT what's best for the kids. Ever. Neither one of you is a bad parent, abusive, or neglectful - so there's no good reason you can't share custody and behave like civilized grown-ups.

If a poly relationships isn't for you, it isn't for you. That's fine. But you have the potential to do a great deal of harm to your children by taking such a hard line. As a parent, you have a responsibility to go through this process in a civil, mature, grown-up manner.

I'm not too worried about your wife and her girlfriend; they chose this life, they're grown-ups, and they'll get over it. But having the family violently ripped apart will scar your children for life. It will make it difficult for them to ever have a trusting, loving relationship. Do you want them to be in your situation 40 years from now, just because you can't take the time now to slow down and move carefully?
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 03-12-2013 at 05:21 AM.
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  #127  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:52 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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manor.
manner! (ouch<---mine)
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  #128  
Old 03-12-2013, 02:48 AM
Matt Matt is offline
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I briefly skimmed. Not full on read and clung to each every word, so if I miss something, excuse me in advance.

My wife didn't force me to do anything. Damn right about that. I have the right to do what it takes to make myself happy, and if that means divorcing my wife, then I'm going to do it. If I'm not happy, why should I stay? Everybody knows you don't stay in a marriage because of the kids. That's a bad reason.

Yes, custody disputes can get ugly. Divorces can drag on. They're a part of life. The talks of divorce are necessary. If I know that I can't live in this situation, I am going to divorce my wife and free her. I'm not going to hold her in this marriage and let both of us be miserable. We both deserve to be happy and free to be who we are. I think that's fair. Is that the first resort? No, but it's the last one and a possible reality. You can't ignore it. I hate when people act like they didn't see a divorce barreling down the tunnel. I'm forewarning my wife that if we can't find a solution that works for everybody, then I'm not going to sit around and wait for her to ask me for a divorce. I'm going to initiate it, since I'm the one who doesn't want to be a polyamorous relationship, which is what this is despite the fact that I am monogamous. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try every resort from A-Y, but Z is divorce. Accept it for what it is and move on.

I had to get away from her and this situation. The moment where our daughter sensed the space and asked what was going on was the final nail in the coffin. We can't just exist around them and share space. Time apart never hurt anybody.

When I did finally talk to my wife, it just pissed me off. At no point did she bother to ask how I was. It was all about how she's feeling and how hard of a time she's having. I know this is hard on her, but would it have killed her to take 30 seconds to ask how I was doing and to listen to what I said? I've never told a woman to shut up, but I was close. I have to limit contact with her.

It's now Tuesday afternoon. I have had a lot of time to think. No pressure from her. No arguing with her. Just me and my thoughts. In that time, I discovered a couple of my issues. Everyone seems to think that I haven't expressed myself and communicated to my wife. Wrong. When I first mentioned her girlfriend being too damn involved in our marriage, she didn't hear me out. Nothing I said was absorbed into her brain. My stance on that? If you're going to ignore me and dismiss it, I'm just not going to talk to you about it. That was the start of it going down. There's only so many times you can beat a dead horse. She has acknowledged that she didn't really hear me out because it wasn't what she wanted to hear. Baby steps, right?

I know what my issue with her girlfriend is and some of my real issues with my wife. The problem is my wife isn't willing to change anything. Here's what it is. I have new name for her: Snowflake. Snowflake's involvement in our marriage and every decision has made me feel undermined in my marriage and as a parent. She doesn't want to move? Oh, well, we have to reconsider, possibly find a new school, go through another series of applying and interviews, and stop whatever was planned because my wife thinks of her as being part of our family. The problem with this? I don't. Snowflake isn't a child or a minor, and we're not her guardians, so she has the right to do what she needs or wants to do. We're adults, and as parents, my wife and I should be the one making decisions that best suit our children. We shouldn't have to run everything by her for approval. Long-distance relationships can survive. Optimism is still there. My wife would still get to keep her relationship and marriage.

Here's the issue with my wife. She refuses to separate our marriage and her relationship. Like I've been trying to tell her, Snowflake and I aren't the same person. The relationships are different and grow at different rates. Two different relationship styles that are like mixing water and oil. Planting a flag here because this is an issue.

The best thing I've read yet is this. "Imagine asking your best mate about everything in your marriage and with rearing your children. How would your wife feel if someone she viewed as just an acquaintance or even a mutual friend had so much input and say over the life you two share?" I used the example of consulting with my best mate about our finances and whether I should buy a car without running it by my wife. Finances are something that affect the entire household, right? Well, let's say I tap into our savings and go buy a new Mercedes because my best mate gave me the go ahead. I view my best mate as a brother, so he's family to me. It's the same thing but in reverse. By her girlfriend having so much involvement and input and everything, it has caused problems. It's two people in this marriage, and like I told her, I said those vows to you. If I had wanted to include her in things that directly affect every member of our household, I would go back and amend estate papers, wills, offer to give her alimony if it didn't work out, etc. My wife would be ready to put my head on a platter if I did something like this, but it's cool for her to do. I think she needs a dose of her own medicine. Sometimes telling somebody something doesn't sink in until they see how it feels.

Another issue that has come forth from the recesses of darkness. Snowflake is a part-time co-parent and does it at her leisure. Just because she was part of doctor's appointments and there during L&D, she shouldn't have rights. Our parents were there, and they don't have rights. The kids are their grandchildren, so why should she have them again? Also, if you can't commit to doing it full time, you don't need equal parental rights or the right to interfere. You can be an "aunt" with zero input. What I'm trying to get my wife to understand is, while we value the opinions of friends, family, and loved ones, ultimately the final decisions should be made by the two of us. My wife and I are parents 24/7. It doesn't stop because we want to go get wasted with our friends. We have social lives and lives outside of the kids, but if anything happens with the kids, we're dropping whatever it is and getting there immediately. We are the ones attending recitals, various lessons, classes, taking off from work for doctor's appointments, staying up all night to monitor fevers, holding them after nightmares or scary dreams, potty training, and everything being a parent entails. We never limited her to what she could or couldn't do or how much access she had, so that's no excuse for her being a part-time "co-parent." I coin that term loosely. You have a say in everything that goes on, but you only do this like a gig with a band. I don't get to choose which days I want to be a daddy, and my wife doesn't get to choose which days she wants to be a mother. It's always going to be part of who are. Our kids are not pets and deserve more than a fleeting encounter with a supposed co-parent. Her not living with us is no excuse either. She wants all the rights with responsibilities when it suits her. That's not a parent, so yes, those rights need to be revoked. She has had years to step up and prove to be something different, and she has yet to do it. Planting another flag here because this is an issue. I don't want our kids to ever be let down because her priorities are questionable.

I'm thinking entirely different now and searching for solutions that won't make everybody miserable in the end. I can't think or function while just sitting in a room brainstorming. I need to be able to think freely. Not with my heart but with my head. My heart is on an extended leave of absence. Now, that I have started the process of doing that, I can think of things that need to be addressed in therapy and find ways of communicating them the right way to my wife. I can't force her to be receptive or make any changes, but I can try to come up with ideas and solutions that aren't unilateral. That's the best that I can do from my end.

Last edited by Matt; 03-12-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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  #129  
Old 03-12-2013, 05:21 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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manner! (ouch<---mine)
I thought it looked funny.
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  #130  
Old 03-12-2013, 07:27 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Yes, custody disputes can get ugly. Divorces can drag on. They're a part of life.
Ugly custody disputes with divorces that drag on are NOT a normal part of life.

My parents got divorced when I was a teenager. It was amicable and relatively painless. They both agreed that the marriage was unhealthy, they both truly wanted what was best for me, and they both made sure to upset my life as little as possible. That's what loving parents do.

Parents who treat their children as pawns in their "I'm going to get you before you get me" bullshit don't deserve to be parents.

You signed up for a poly relationship. Take some fucking responsibility for that and don't drag your kids into your tornado of misery. They didn't sign up for any of this. So you fucked up and made a mistake? That's fine, you're human. But now that you know better, start acting like a grown-up and drop the selfish "I'll do what I want, no matter who gets hurt" crap.
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