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  #51  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:20 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Our pediatrician is old-fashioned and has an entirely different set of beliefs, but he's an amazing doctor. His wife is a stay at home mom of 5, so naturally his perception is biased. They have stair-stepper kids, so daycare would be costly for them. If I remember right, only one is in school. The others aren't old enough, yet. Our daughter will be in Pre-K later on this year, so some changes will be made. It won't be cost effective to have a nanny, so I might be willing to try daycare.

Listening to this lady this morning made me go, "Hmm." Since she is started working at that daycare, she has had more visits to her doctor than ever before. Various upper respiratory infections, ear infections, and a slew of other things. I know there is no way to pinpoint the exact location where she contracted the various things, but daycares do have quite a few germs. I remember from when my little brother was at one. At one point, he was visiting his pediatrician every week. Sometimes twice if he requested a follow-up appointment in the same week. That wasn't that long ago. Fevers, ear infections, bronchitis, etc. I do agree that children are able to build up their immunity, and I guess part of not wanting them in a daycare was me being a protective mother and wanting to shield them while I can. The pediatrician's opinion was just the push I needed to say, "This is exactly why we're keeping them at home."

Things got blurred for sure. Like looking through rose tinted glasses. That issue was worked out and agreed upon. We moved past it, and everything was on a good path. Within three and half weeks, the quality of things went down, which leads me to believe something transpired that I don't know about. I wasn't in their relationship. I noticed a change in his attitude towards the mid-ish to end of January. Maybe it's nothing, and he just finally cracked after keeping everything bottled up for too long. A crack in the foundation is the start of problems and the beginning of a black hole aka the abyss.

I was reminded why Matt and I click so well. We put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's the downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process, and I think that's what happened. Putting my feelings and happiness before his own lead to resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."

Last edited by FullofLove1052; 03-07-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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  #52  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:36 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post

I was reminded why Matt and I click so well. We put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's the downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process, and I think that's what happened. Putting my feelings and happiness before his own lead to resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."
I know what you're saying but... do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything TO him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craig's List three months ago.


I have to tell you, what gets me about this thread really is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist,, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship. You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. YOU are the only one who can "share" you, and you should be the one who decided who you share with. Not after 12 years and pretty much the same length of relationship one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time and the other relationship needs to stop.
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  #53  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:50 AM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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I know what you're saying but... do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything TO him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craig's List three months ago.


I have to tell you, what gets me about this thread really is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist,, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship. You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. YOU are the only one who can "share" you, and you should be the one who decided who you share with. Not after 12 years and pretty much the same length of relationship one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time and the other relationship needs to stop.
I was going to say the same things.

I'm glad, FullofLove, that you have sympathy for your husband's viewpoint and feelings here--because I sure don't.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who would let his resentment build IN TOTAL SILENCE for YEARS until it's suddenly too late. I'm pretty biased in my feelings because my ex-boyfriend/best friend did that exact thing to me. He finally decided to be honest about how unhappy he'd been--and for me it came totally out of left field, made absolutely no sense, left me feeling like four years of my life had been a lie, and came too late for anything to be worked out because he resented me so deeply he had no interest in friendship or communication with me.

Two and a half years later, I have managed to be rebuild my life and my self-esteem and my happiness...but I am still rebuilding my sense of trust and love and hope.
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  #54  
Old 03-08-2013, 05:26 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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We put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's the downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process, and I think that's what happened.
I am glad you recognize that as a potential downfall.

Quote:
Putting my feelings and happiness before his own lead to resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."
I'm not sure you get that it takes two to tango if you are leading interdependent lives in this relationship model you share.

There is also "If I am neglecting my own wants, needs and limits, I am hurting not just me but also my partner and our relationship. I'm not holding up my end of the sticks when I neglect my well being. Others count on me being healthy."

Was he broadcasting the message and you overlooked it because you put you first? That is one thing.

Did he withhold info and expect you to mind reader? That's another thing.

To me it sounds like he put his "not wanting to make waves"" ahead of his own overall well being -- to have his own wants, needs, and limits broadcast and request they be honored.

It built up resentments because things were going unmet too long and he blew. Neglected own need to articulate, steam valve along the way appropriately for his own well being, and now there is explodey all over everyone.
  • He could be responsible for knowing and stating his wants, needs, and limits.
  • If you haven't heard about them in a while, you could exercise your right to clear communication and ASK HIM to disclose.
  • Given that the right to clear communication is granted in your relationship agreements.
  • Given that the responsibility to know and state your own wants, needs and limits is indeed held as a responsibility to the overall relationship.

Not assumed. GIVEN. So you can hold each other accountable to each other and to the interdependent relationship's health and well being.

If that is the model you want to cultivate, cultivate it then. All the way across.

Not you taking on board all the elephant yourself from hinge guilt. Everyone could owns a piece of the elephant and situation making. Y'all are still recovering from the initial kablooey -- so take it hour by hour. People are human, things happen, hopefully people can learn.

But lift that up -- "if we are going to aim for an interdependent model here, then we have to really play interdependently then."

Or choose to change the model going forward... maybe a "free agent V" rather than an "interdependent V" -- maybe something else. Talk it out. One thing at a time. You will get there.

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  #55  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:56 AM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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I dont really understand howit went from no cohabitation to habitation, when this happened previously it was decided no cohabitation. It seems the signs were there and now he is getting cast the bad guy. I dont that is productive. It took all three to make this situation. Why was it okay for you to ignore something being off, why was it he didnt feel he could express himself, why was it that she never went to her place. It seems like those all need to be addressed. Even questioning his statement of being your other half when clearly that wasnt the case. I think being introspective and looking at each of your roles is important. While it may seem like all is lost. I think the very opposite. I dont think positive relationships can go forward without the posion being exposed and dealt with. While really painful now, it can be worked on and proceed. Jmop
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  #56  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:18 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
I know what you're saying but... do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything TO him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craig's List three months ago.


I have to tell you, what gets me about this thread really is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist,, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship. You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. YOU are the only one who can "share" you, and you should be the one who decided who you share with. Not after 12 years and pretty much the same length of relationship one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time and the other relationship needs to stop.
I definitely get what you're saying. I don't think it's in an ownership type of thing. D/S marriage...no, it's not that kind of tea party. I know Matt doesn't view me as his property. What I took away from the quote, unquote "sharing" thing was in relation to the heart. Sometimes you have to break it down. When he spelled it out, it was like, "Ohhh. I get what you're saying."

I'm a strong woman and a firecracker. I'm the most sane one in this whole mess. I'm adding peacemaker to my resume.

I'm not giving Matt the right to do anything. For my own peace of mind and to keep the flames of hell from surrounding the outside of my home, I'm keeping them apart. I talked to our priest, and he gave me holy water. I'm very religious. I put some all over the house. I prayed for peace and tranquility. The one place I demand peace and quiet is in my house. I will not stand for them going toe to toe and arguing around our children. Take it elsewhere.

Today, I woke up with a brand new attitude and on something new. I'm not forcing them to be friends, get along, or anything. I have to maintain my own inner peace and tune out the outside issues. I'm a naturally happy person, and you know what, I'm going to stay that way.
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  #57  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:18 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I dont really understand howit went from no cohabitation to habitation, when this happened previously it was decided no cohabitation. It seems the signs were there and now he is getting cast the bad guy. I dont that is productive. It took all three to make this situation. Why was it okay for you to ignore something being off, why was it he didnt feel he could express himself, why was it that she never went to her place. It seems like those all need to be addressed. Even questioning his statement of being your other half when clearly that wasnt the case. I think being introspective and looking at each of your roles is important. While it may seem like all is lost. I think the very opposite. I dont think positive relationships can go forward without the posion being exposed and dealt with. While really painful now, it can be worked on and proceed. Jmop
Sure, it takes three people to tango, but as far as "why she never went to her place"?

* this was someone who has been there since the beginning. it isn't some unicorn they just picked up and can't get rid of now.

* this is someone who their children consider a third parent. Their kids call Girlfriend "mom" (or whatever name they use)

* last but not least, Matt said he INVITED girlfriend to stay for dinner, but ASSUMED she would leave. That's just dumb. Don't say shit you don't mean and expect that people will know you mean the exact opposite, especially when they're in a relationship with you (which you are planning on breaking off, but they have no clue about it) and have a history where they're part of the family even though they're not related by blood or marriage.

It would be a whole other thing if Matt hadn't admitted these things about himself. But at least we have the wife's story, and that makes it pretty safe to say that girlfriend didn't bring any of this on through actions or lack thereof on her own part. I've had this happen to me before, not in the context of an intimate relationship, but it SUCKS when you take someone else's words at face-value and TRUST them, then you find out not only did they lie to "protect my feelings", but the whole time I was there, they were hating it and wishing I'd leave and never come back.

That SUCKS. That is no way to treat someone, especially when they watch your kids for free.
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  #58  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:34 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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What I took away from the quote, unquote "sharing" thing was in relation to the heart. Sometimes you have to break it down. When he spelled it out, it was like, "Ohhh. I get what you're saying."
Then could you explain it so that *I* "get what you're saying"? He doesn't want to "share your heart" with your GF? How does that supposed to work? You are supposed to not feel things in your heart for your girlfriend because someone else is "tired of sharing you"? My whole point is that it's not up to HIM, it's up to YOU who you share your heart with. Just because it isn't a physical "ownership", doesn't make it any less of an "ownership" issue. Maybe Matt "assumed" that this girlfriend was "just a phase" and that you'd "grow out of it" and now that you have kids you should be "getting serious", oh but wait - now the kids are looking upon Kensi as a THIRD PARENT. OMG, this isn't going the way I wanted it to. K should be getting LESS involved now that we're a "family", not MORE involved... No way is SHE crow-barring her way into THIS. Maybe she'll get tired of babysitting and leave... she can find other friends to hang out with... oh no. she's staying for dinner. shit. that back-fired. Maybe if I pout and shuffle my feet uncomfortably she'll get the hint. OK, she's sleeping over again. Not cool, but I'll just step up the passive-aggressive behaviours a notch NEXT time... Aaaaaand next time comes... etc.

Don't get me wrong - it's your life and if you feel that you are able to handle it this way, fine by me. I'm just thinking it will take more than holy water to fix this one.
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  #59  
Old 03-08-2013, 03:34 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Let me clear up a couple of things. Our kids consider Si a third parent. The oldest acknowledges her as such. The youngest is too young to care. As long as he's being fed, changed, and someone's playing with him, he's good to go. Si offered to watch them if it was needed. It wasn't forced or even asked of her. We offered to pay her, and it was turned down. She thinks of them as her own kids, so getting paid to watch your own kids...probably not the norm. IDK how other people do it, but personally, I don't want to be paid to watch my kids. It wasn't for some extended amount of time or always. Every so often if we were caught in rush hour traffic or if something happened and the nanny became ill. Basically filling in. Not watching them for 10-12 hours and being uncompensated. At best, an hour or so. Just until one of us could get there.

Yes, it takes three to tango. We all know we played a part of things popping off the way they did. Could've, should've, would've and didn't. The end. Move forward. Let it go. We can't live in the past or worry about what happened then. We have to live right in this moment and figure out how to exist amongst each other. I don't foresee any type of friendship between Matt and Si again. It's just not happening. Matt's been clear. From 9-5 or whatever schedule is being worked, he'll be professional and keep the issues off the job, but after that, no contact or communication. If he wants to act like she doesn't exist, I don't have mind control to prevent those thoughts. If that's what it takes to help him sleep at night, I respect that.

Years ago, we agreed to no cohabitation. That was long before the triad had formed or before the thought was even born. We did a sort of re-evaluation/checkpoint and agreed to try it with the understanding that if it didn't work, no hard feelings would be had and we could move on and learn. It didn't pan out. No hard feelings. Moved on and became water under the bridge. That's all that was.

Yes, there were probably issues that had not been vocalized at that point. That's what happens when you keep everything inside. You just explode and you make people listen. It's like a tornado. Does it stop to see what's in the path, or does it continue until the destruction is done and it breaks apart?

Where we are now: the issues are out and some of them will be worked out. Others? Not a chance. It's too much of a stretch to even expect them to be cordial or polite towards each other. It's easy to keep your feelings and emotions out of business, though. It's reminiscent of having coworkers that know nothing about your personal life. They see you every day, but they don't know about what you do after you leave. That's Matt's stance right now and possibly forever.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:53 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Then could you explain it so that *I* "get what you're saying"? He doesn't want to "share your heart" with your GF? How does that supposed to work? You are supposed to not feel things in your heart for your girlfriend because someone else is "tired of sharing you"? My whole point is that it's not up to HIM, it's up to YOU who you share your heart with. Just because it isn't a physical "ownership", doesn't make it any less of an "ownership" issue. Maybe Matt "assumed" that this girlfriend was "just a phase" and that you'd "grow out of it" and now that you have kids you should be "getting serious", oh but wait - now the kids are looking upon Kensi as a THIRD PARENT. OMG, this isn't going the way I wanted it to. K should be getting LESS involved now that we're a "family", not MORE involved... No way is SHE crow-barring her way into THIS. Maybe she'll get tired of babysitting and leave... she can find other friends to hang out with... oh no. she's staying for dinner. shit. that back-fired. Maybe if I pout and shuffle my feet uncomfortably she'll get the hint. OK, she's sleeping over again. Not cool, but I'll just step up the passive-aggressive behaviours a notch NEXT time... Aaaaaand next time comes... etc.

Don't get me wrong - it's your life and if you feel that you are able to handle it this way, fine by me. I'm just thinking it will take more than holy water to fix this one.
I have to maintain sanity some type of way. Nothing is going to fix this overnight or ever. Right now, they can't even be in the same room. Imagine how that makes me feel. I'm in the middle of two feuding parties. Counseling is going to help some, but if they're not willing to even partake in joint sessions. Who is that helping? Somebody has to be the sane and calm one.

I get what you're saying. I don't get the vibe of ownership issues. That's not how it feels. If that was the case, wouldn't it be like saying, "I own you for 99 years or x amount of time," like a leasehold property? Sharing in regards to everything. Feeling like he's only getting a fraction of me whereas I presumably have most or all of him. In Matt's mind, it's not balanced. He doesn't understand the whole argument of, "Sometimes in poly, it's not like the heart is being rationed off. It expands to accommodate." Remember his attempt at poly failed, as that accommodation and expansion didn't occur. This argument has fallen on deaf ears.

Since he tried poly and was able to reaffirm that he's mono, it stands to reason that he's had moments of clarity and he's projecting his realizations on to me. In his mind, only loving one person is normal, so guess what that means? How I live isn't normal to him and it's a foreign concept. I understand what you're saying about being P.A. I don't know how to explain that. I don't have the answers to anything. This is a discovery process.
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