In need of help :(

[lemondrops]

Thank you everyone for your posts. I must say that I maybe left a bit of a wrong impression of myself. That is, I do not yell like a madman on a daily basis without no reason. This has only happened during really big, scary and important fights and I am in no way proud of that and have done my best lately to not do it.

Firstly. Someone asked what kind of progress have I made and there are different things. I need to make it clear though that I would be willing to accept polyamory only if it would make me happy. Would it? I am not sure. I am quite sure that I would prefer monogamy, but only because that is how I have been thinking for my whole life and that's the only way I have had the opportunity to witness with my own eyes. If my boyfriend could still give me as much love and attention as now, then I would really not care if he wanted polyamory or monogamy. As long as he does not hurt me by going crazy with NRE (which I must admit is one of my biggest fears). Another big fear is that we MIGHT understand polyamory differently. In my opinion when two people decide to go from a mono relationship to a poly one, then there should be no need to start flirting with every single girl who you might see on the street or wherever. I would respect polyamory that happens because it happens for a reason. If someone would meet someone besides their already existing partner and then they would all see if this could work out because true feelings are at stake. But I do not like, I actually hate, the idea of my boyfriend losing his mind when we go out and starting flirting with a ton of girls who just seem to have a friendly and a pretty face. This just seems wrong. As general and not 100% true my statement is, I think that attraction and real feelings should come before a group of people decide to go poly, especially if it has to do with a relationship that was mono, not that polyamory comes first and acts as if a permit to show interest in and have sex with whoever is available, basically trying everyone because you can. But I am afraid that my bf does not really believe in that, as when I asked him if I said "sure, let's try this polyamory", would he flirt with 20 girls the next Friday we go out to a party? and his response was "Why not?". Umm, ok, but how should I, the already there partner should feel about that? Having to know that my bf has found someone he truly likes and who I know would be thinkable (I am not willing to accept everything that freely yet, but getting there), but seeing him act like a kid in a candy store would definitely hurt and in my eyes he would not be that intelligent nice guy anymore.

As to my progress, what I meant by it was that I am not fighting against anything anymore without giving it a chance (a chance in theory first) . I have been reading lots and when I usually flipped out when I saw someone describing their polyamorous life of antidepressants, tears, loneliness, having their significant other's t-shirt to hug at night, because he in person is out having fun with some new girl, then now I don't, because my bf assures me that this is NOT what he wants for us. However, as I must admit that he is kind of naive, I am sure that he would NEVER let something like that happen on purpose, but these situations might just arise, as we are humans and I think it is ok to be afraid of those them.

However, my main problem now is that all my bf and I do with this topic is exchange articles and forum pages to read. And I feel lost and left alone to deal with all this. And today my bf really went to the library to have some of his own time and I did my stuff at home. It went very well and there was no awkwardness about it, I mean, it is only normal. But what saddened me a tiny bit was exactly the fact that when he came home, he did not focus his attention on me, but started doing the "regular at home stuff", like being on Facebook, cooking, playing computer games. I have not said anything bad about it, but as I feel that the topic of polyamory is very fresh, we should talk about it. And to be honest, I hoped that he would start the conversation, as he knows that I have struggled with it in the past, but have been very open in the last few days, reading articles he sent and sending some to him. I am doing better, but I still want help and his support, he is the one who brought this into our relationship and I am not accusing anyone in no way, but I feel like if he wants it and I have shown signs of "okay....go on?", then he should be extra positive and assuring on the topic of our love and commitment when it comes to poly. Unfortunately, I feel alone and under a burden of information and fears that he could make go away, but he seems to be too busy with his own stuff. He has always been the science-geek kind of a guy, and I have liked it, but I wish he could come down to the emotional-person level a bit more. Days ago he promised to write me a letter based on emotions and fears, like a little help-you note that I could read every time I am confused or scared and just a nice letter of saying "I am thankful that I can write to you about polyamory and I will do it in a way that makes you feel very much wanted as opposed to what you are afraid of." But, unfortunately, he has not done it. And he has not sent me forum posts of real people living a wonderful polyamorous life, only scientific reasoning on why people should be poly. This is ok, but he nows that this is not the best way to reach me, so I have been a bit disappointed, as I definitely speak the language of emotions and experience, not the language of rationality and facts.

[BBQGreg]

Originally Posted by lemondrops

When we got together he did not know about polyamory, but discovered it later. I was shocked and lost it everytime we talked about it. Otherwise, our relationship was very good, we are close, talk about everything, want to be together for the rest of our lives, talk about having kids and getting married and I have never doubted in those plans. However, polyamory still was and has been the topic that makes me yell, scream, cry, break stuff. And makes him be annoyed with me. I must say that I do not like the idea of having multiple partners, it actually scares me tremendously. BUT it is not so much that I yell because of polyamory, I yell because it seems that my boyfriend think only about polyamory and his polyamorous future. He has made me feel worthless, disposable, being replaced, not enough and I feel I am bound to get hurt, so how in the hell could I support it?

Hi, Lemondrops. I think you've said two things there that bother you: 1) the idea of your boyfriend with other partners, and 2) what you perceive as your boyfriend obsessing about polyamory and (I assume) by extension neglecting you. The rest of your post seems to me to deal with both things, so I've got to ask: which is it that bothers you more?

The problem is that he talks openly about what he wants, but for some reason he tends to emphasise things that are not that pleasant to me, while I would sometimes just like to hear good things about this all idea... Firstly, when my boyfriend wanted me to listen to his reasoning that polyamory is good for US, not him, that there are so many monogamous relationships that go to waste and he wants to be with me forever, so we should try something else, but only up to the point that it makes everyone happy, no forcing. This made me laugh at him. I was all "sure, we were happy before this polyamory and we would be so close without it, so no way could we benefit from it in the future". However, yesterday, for the first time I understood him. I did not necessarily agree 100%, but understood him and felt glad that he cares about our happy future.

I believe all human motivation boils down to the question "What's in it for me?". Obviously, people don't all value any particular given answer to that question the same (especially when trade-offs are involved), but that's the question that matters. Basic fact of human existence, as I see it: if someone wants you to do something, you won't do it until you're convinced it's a net gain for you. I've seen more than one post on this forum with someone asking "What was for you in accepting your partner's polyamory?" or "My partner wants a non-monogamous relationship, what can I expect to be in it for me?". If your boyfriend's been offering you unsatisfactory answers to those questions, I don't think there's a thing wrong with you having rejected his answers.

Polyamory should not be the reason to break up with the love of your life, cheating, hurting the other and so on should be. I want to support him, not 100% on this, but I do not want him to have extra problems beacuse of me.

I think GalaGirl's response to this is dead-on accurate. If what he wants/needs from a relationship with you is fundamentally incompatible with what you want/need, it can and should be a reason to break up. If his want/need for some form of poly is fundamentally incompatible with your want/need for mono, then polyamory should be the reason to break up (since if you don't, it'll become something that hurts one or the other of you - which you've acknowledged is a reason to break up).

I mean for the 2 years of our relationship we have been together almost literally 24/7 and sure, we don't have many hobbies or jobs outside our home, so maybe this has added to the tension, but I think it is mostly because of the polyamory burden we both have been carrying.

I'm very sympathetic to your feeling threatened by the idea of your boyfriend being romantically involved other people and your hostility to that idea, since it's pretty similar to my feelings. I'm even sympathetic to your desire to lash out violently in response to being confronted with it, although I don't think acting on that desire is healthy or productive. But I've got to say, spending 24/7 together? That doesn't sound like something that's going to be good for either of you individually or for your relationship with each other. Yes, it's important (especially long-term) to have lots of experiences and form lots of memories together. But it's also important to have separate experiences so the answer to "what did you do today?" isn't always "the exact same thing as you". Plus, I'd think if nothing else a sort of "cabin fever" or "water torture" reaction would set in if you were never doing things either alone or with other people.

[Emm]

Originally Posted by lemondrops

... we should talk about it. And to be honest, I hoped that he would start the conversation...

Why would he do that? You've shown that you don't want to talk about it in the past by yelling and throwing things. He's probably waiting until you've had time to think about it and feel up to bringing it up yourself.

If you want to talk about it, talk about it. If you want to yell about it, wait a bit longer until you've calmed down enough to talk about it, then talk about it.

[GalaGirl]

Let me take the liberty of reframing your last paragraph....

My main problem now is that all my bf and I do with this topic is exchange articles and forum pages to read. Yesterday he went to the library and then came home and did regular house stuff.

I feel lost and left alone to deal with all this and since I feel that the topic of polyamory is very fresh? I want us to talk about it!

I hoped that he would start the conversation. He did not.

WANTS

• I still want help and his support digesting this material.
• I wanted to reconnect after the time apart in general
• I want reassure from him on the poly topic and how it may play out for us if we go there.
• I want reassure on our love and commitment when it comes to poly.

NEEDS:

• I feel alone. I need company. Preferably HIS company.
  
• I feel under a burden of information and fears. I need to be free of these feelings of YUCK. If we could talk to air out, then my fears could lessen.

SOLUTIONS I HAVE TRIED SO FAR TO MEET MY OWN WANTS AND NEEDS:

I have not spoken up about my wants and needs for reassure from him.
He seems to be too busy with his own stuff. So hasn't noticed and/or has not "mind reader"-ed my need.

Not satisfying to me.

POSSIBLE NEW SOLUTION

1) I change my own behavior. I could speak up and tell him "I need some feedback, and some reconnect, comfort and reassure. Could you be willing to provide this? The reassure could come in the shape of written notes. It could come in the shape of "links to forum posts where people are polyshipping happily."


2) I keep my own behavior the same. I stay silent and keep hoping he will mind reader my wants and needs for comfort and reassure from him.

If that's where we are at? I'd go for 1. Speak up. You can't control his behavior but you are in charge of your own -- so open mouth and clue partner in to your current needs. Talk.

Galagirl

[SchrodingersCat]

You have all of these ideas of what your boyfriend should be doing in your relationship. Your feelings and needs are valid. But only he can control his behaviour. If you have communicated to him what your needs are and he has failed to meet them, then what's in this relationship for you? Never mind polyamory, I'm talking about the relationship itself. Why stay with someone who does not meet your needs? Why commit to someone who doesn't support you when you're feeling troubled, who pressures you into something you're not comfortable with?

Originally Posted by lemondrops

In my opinion when two people decide to go from a mono relationship to a poly one, then there should be no need to start flirting with every single girl who you might see on the street or wherever. I do not like, I actually hate, the idea of my boyfriend losing his mind when we go out and starting flirting with a ton of girls who just seem to have a friendly and a pretty face. This just seems wrong.

My husband is an incorrigible flirt. He loves checking out girls, pointing out cute butts, and remarking how awesome it is to have a wife who totally supports his natural tendency and doesn't try to stifle him. He never would have stayed with me if I'd been the type of woman to chastise him for that. I'm secure in my awesomeness and I know he's not going to leave me for some fresh piece of ass, so what's there to worry about?

It's just flirting. I've honestly never understood why some women (it's usually women) make such a big deal out of flirting. It's not like he's running up and humping their leg or asking 20 girls to come home with him on Friday.

His desire to flirt has nothing to do with polyamory. Plenty of monogamous-minded people flirt. Actually, flirting doesn't necessarily even have to do with relationships or dating. For many, it's just harmless fun, a way for two people to interact. It's not so much a "need" as a personality trait. He's flirtatious.

There is no way you "should" feel about that, you feel what you feel. But when you discourage his flirtatious nature, it tells him that you don't accept him the way he is. That makes it another basic incompatibility.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by learninginTN

I'm guessing he already has someone in mind, based on what you told us in your initial post. Since he does not yet have your blessing, that would be cheating.

I disagree. Being interested in someone else is not the same as acting on it. We humans are accountable for our behaviour, not our thoughts and desires.

Cheating is characterized by lying, pure and simple. Many people who have been cheated on report that it's not the fact that their partner was sleeping with someone else that bothered them, it's that their partner was lying and sneaking around.

If you tell your partner that you're going to have a relationship with someone else, then whether or not they give you their "blessing," it's not cheating. Disclosure allows them an informed decision whether or not to stay with you. Staying with you when you've told them you're having a relationship with someone else is a form of consent.

lemondrops has posted nothing that leads me to believe he's cheating. By the sounds of it, their 24/7 style relationship hasn't allowed him the opportunity. Of course, anything's possible, but I think you're jumping the gun.

[lemondrops]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Let me take the liberty of reframing your last paragraph....

If that's where we are at? I'd go for 1. Speak up. You can't control his behavior but you are in charge of your own -- so open mouth and clue partner in to your current needs. Talk.

Galagirl

Thank you SO much, Galagirl. The way you took my post together will help me tremendously! It will be of much use!

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

My husband is an incorrigible flirt. He loves checking out girls, pointing out cute butts, and remarking how awesome it is to have a wife who totally supports his natural tendency and doesn't try to stifle him. He never would have stayed with me if I'd been the type of woman to chastise him for that. I'm secure in my awesomeness and I know he's not going to leave me for some fresh piece of ass, so what's there to worry about?

It's just flirting. I've honestly never understood why some women (it's usually women) make such a big deal out of flirting. It's not like he's running up and humping their leg or asking 20 girls to come home with him on Friday.

His desire to flirt has nothing to do with polyamory. Plenty of monogamous-minded people flirt. Actually, flirting doesn't necessarily even have to do with relationships or dating. For many, it's just harmless fun, a way for two people to interact. It's not so much a "need" as a personality trait. He's flirtatious.

There is no way you "should" feel about that, you feel what you feel. But when you discourage his flirtatious nature, it tells him that you don't accept him the way he is. That makes it another basic incompatibility.

Well, first of all, my boyfriend definitely is not a flirt. It is just a fear of mine that maybe polyamory will change him into one. And yes, I would mind that, at least if he were to do it with me standing right next to him. And I know that polyamory is not a "thing" that can turn people into something, but I just have a hard time understanding it as a mono. I just fear that if I give the permission (a bit exaggerated wording), then why not try to get away with everything? I mean if I said I was ok with polyamory, why not flirt with every girl in sight in the hopes of hooking up, because how would a man let loose in he "fun and flirt world" distinguish between serious deep relationship prospects from hot sexy girls who would maybe be ready for some action, although it possibly would hurt the existing relationship. We have talked that relationships with other who I know and like would be negotiable, but random sex with strangers never. This is my viewpoint and he has definitely agreed, although I keep being afraid that maybe when reality strikes he might forget that. I know I am not doing my bf any justice here, because he has never hurt me like that and neither have I, but I just wanna believe that it will stay that way.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

lemondrops has posted nothing that leads me to believe he's cheating. By the sounds of it, their 24/7 style relationship hasn't allowed him the opportunity. Of course, anything's possible, but I think you're jumping the gun.

Yes, you are right. No cheating has ever happened. When it comes to him already knowing who he would like to be polyamorous with is a bit different. He keeps on claiming that those people would be someone we know. This makes me question of course "Someone who we already know?? Who then??". Because to be honest, we have a group of friends and they are all common friends, but erm...none of them would ever be interested in my boyfriend. I am 100% sure of it. And the reason is because they see him ONLY as a friend. Just as I see all of our guy friends as just friends. So I don't exactly understand him when he says that, it is almost as if he believes that right now we are friends but polyamory would make us fall in love with each other. This is totally out of the question. There is no secret flirting or whatever among our group of friends, so my boyfriend's idea seems a bit unreal and even a bit weird to me.

[BBQGreg]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

I disagree. Being interested in someone else is not the same as acting on it. We humans are accountable for our behaviour, not our thoughts and desires.

Unfortunately, there's some widely practiced religions that teach we are accountable for our thoughts and desires. For example, I remember when I was a kid getting dragged to church every Sunday and having to recite the same prayer: "And I confess to the Lord our God and to you my brothers and sisters in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do." I've only been back to that church once in over a decade, for my sister's wedding, and I can still recite that from memory.

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by BBQGreg

Unfortunately, there's some religions that teach we are accountable for our thoughts and desires.

There are some religions that pass out deadly kool-aid too, it doesn't necessarily make them sane. Even if you did subscribe to this, being "interested" is NOT the same thing as actually taking action to make those thoughts a reality.

[BBQGreg]

Originally Posted by SNeacail

There are some religions that pass out deadly kool-aid too, it doesn't necessarily make them sane. Even if you did subscribe to this, being "interested" is NOT the same thing as actually taking action to make those thoughts a reality.

I didn't intend to endorse any religions or to say that "being interested" and "taking action" are the same thing, merely to point out that there are more than zero proponents for the idea that being interested is morally/ethically the same thing as actually taking action to make those thoughts a reality. There are large, widespread institutions that spread the idea "you're a bad person for wanting to do something bad whether you actually do it or not", and there's a decent chance that somebody's been exposed to them often enough for that teaching to have an effect on their sense of guilt. And I will say that my personal experience with it was that once you've learned to pass judgment on yourself on that basis - that you're just as guilty for desiring something (or "being interested") as for actually taking action - it can be difficult to unlearn regardless of what else you do or don't believe of that religion's teachings.