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  #41  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:54 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Oh, dear. I was hoping that would not happen in that fashion.

It is painful to watch the people you love do this. I guess there was just too much bottled up inside -- could tend to each other better in future to steam valve along the way when it is small and doable and not risk blowing a gasket again.

Could agree to stick to a better conflict resolution method than yelling and screaming at each other help in the next round perhaps?

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Framing requests in non-violent manner so it keeps it on task toward finidng solutions rather than assigning blame?

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.c...artprocess.htm

Maybe even write out the talking points to stay on track and not derail into name calling, venom spewing, etc. Sometimes knowing your turn is coming on the agenda can help keep things cooler. So could create an agenda. You have family business here. Run the family meeting respectfully and like serious business then.

Maybe that is ALL the first session could be. Not even get into the meat of conflcit resolution just yet. But just acknowledge that the previous attempt was just not cool, digest those links together, form an agenda for the next session, and call it a day and get a pizza.

And if people emotionally flood, even in a "planning meeting only" agree to take a "time out" to gather selves back together?

Even if it got ugly, I hope letting it out was cathartic. I hope they can apologize -- all of you apologize to all of you. Many balls got dropped and all were responsible for both the original source(s) of discomfort that then led up to this latest situation. All were involved in the situation making -- ykwim?

Perhaps this older post could comfort you as the hinge person. That was a triad who had a big elephant thing to work out and though it was rough, they did in the end.

I wouldn't let it go longer than 1 hour. Could all agree to that time limit and set a timer. Could stick to those 3 goals too:
  • All apologize to all
  • digest links
  • make agenda for next time
  • Go cool off again

Then all can walk away from it feeling like "Alright. That was a lot better than last time. Alright. We're moving it forward in baby steps. I can feel better about it. We are not DONE but the elephant? It's starting to break down. We can do this."

If you need to retain a counselor to help guide you through this rough patch, do! Needing extra support is nothing shameful.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-07-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Oh, dear. I was hoping that would not happen in that fashion.

It is painful to watch the people you love do this. I guess there was just too much bottled up inside -- could tend to each other better in future to steam valve along the way when it is small and doable and not risk blowing a gasket again.

Could agree to stick to a better conflict resolution method than yelling and screaming at each other help in the next round perhaps?

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Framing requests in non-violent manner so it keeps it on task toward finidng solutions rather than assigning blame?

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.c...artprocess.htm

Maybe even write out the talking points to stay on track and not derail into name calling, venom spewing, etc. Sometimes knowing your turn is coming on the agenda can help keep things cooler. So could create an agenda. You have family business here. Run the family meeting respectfully and like serious business then.

Maybe that is ALL the first session could be. Not even get into the meat of conflcit resolution just yet. But just acknowledge that the previous attempt was just not cool, digest those links together, form an agenda for the next session, and call it a day and get a pizza.

And if people emotionally flood, even in a "planning meeting only" agree to take a "time out" to gather selves back together?

Even if it got ugly, I hope letting it out was cathartic. I hope they can apologize -- all of you apologize to all of you. Many balls got dropped and all were responsible for both the original source(s) of discomfort that then led up to this latest situation. All were involved in the situation making -- ykwim?

Perhaps this older post could comfort you as the hinge person. That was a triad who had a big elephant thing to work out and though it was rough, they did in the end.

I wouldn't let it go longer than 1 hour. Could all agree to that time limit and set a timer. Could stick to those 3 goals too:
  • All apologize to all
  • digest links
  • make agenda for next time
  • Go cool off again

Then all can walk away from it feeling like "Alright. That was a lot better than last time. Alright. We're moving it forward in baby steps. I can feel better about it. We are not DONE but the elephant? It's starting to break down. We can do this."

If you need to retain a counselor to help guide you through this rough patch, do! Needing extra support is nothing shameful.

Hang in there.

Galagirl
I had prayed that it wouldn't happen like this. It started, "As much as I care for you and cherished the time we spent together, I know for certain that staying in this relationship is presumably not the best option..." That was fine. If you know it's not working, free her, and we can transition back to a V.

It took a turn for the worse within minutes. Unfortunately, that turn was on an icy road on the side of a mountain with a steep edge. Matt said, "I hope this doesn't offend you, and that you don't take this the wrong way. I apologize in advance if it does..." He went on to say that he isn't exactly a fan of being part of a poly family, not particularly enthused that she and I are together, and some other things. The words were carefully chosen, and it was painful to watch. Those are his feelings, and I guess they had to come out.

I can tell you now. No apologies will be issued anytime soon or ever. Two stubborn people who are set in their ways. The ones that have been issued as of this moment were were laced with gasoline with a match in hand. E.g. "I'm sorry...sorry, that you're not welcome in our home anymore." We got into a tiff because of that. So it's safe to say their issues are causing problems between us as well. What a beautiful welcome home, huh? Not.

I do like your suggestions as far as therapy agenda. It might be "family" business, but one member has made it crystal clear that she's not part of any family of his. I will be seeking an outside therapist because it's hard being the hinge and trying to be neutral.

Our session starts in about 45 minutes. I can't even say for certain that they'll both show up. I hope so. *fingers crossed*
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  #43  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:20 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Things don't always work out in real life the way they do on paper.

That's REALLY what is "wrong" with polyamory... and monogamy... and relationships... etc.

Good luck with your counseling session.
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  #44  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:33 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I hope it goes ok.

So far it sounds like he reached his limit, and stated as much. "Here's my line in the sand on these issues."

Great. We all have a limit. Doesn't sound like it came out with the most elegant of ways, but it is out. Issues identified.

So...Where's the moving it forward part? He got suggestions? Does she? Do you?

It is back into a "V" shape. But right now it is a V shape in disharmony. What's the plan for restoring harmony then? Before even chasing that shiny thought down that road...

1) Could assess who is still in it here or not. Where is your willingness? His willingness? Her willingness? What things are people willing/not willing to DO. Are they willing to work with you (all together) toward unsuffering and restoring balance to the V shape universe? Yes? Go on down that road.

2) No? People are no longer willing to participate in a harmonious V shape thing with you as the hinge? The V shape universe itself needs to change? Cannot have a triad, cannot have a V, it's going to be what...everyone single? Something else that is between a "V" and "all single" in there somehow? Accept "All parties no longer willing at all" and have THAT conversation instead. The landing of the polyship.

Whatever which way -- it has to move forward. If you don't move it forward... well, time marches on and moves it forward FOR YOU whether you like it or not. Sigh.

Could choose which path:
  • Life is something you purposefully create for yourself to meet your own wants, needs, and limits.
  • Life happens TO you as you just float along.

Before making major life changing decisions here -- could give yourselves a time out for a few weeks for self care. No contact at all. Just time out. See your counselor on your own, restore inner balance first. If it is destined to end, that break doesn't change much. If can be brought back into harmonious V, perhaps the break to cool off from high emotion would help and be of great benefit to all.

Just another thought for handling this. Take care of yourselves. It's rough right now, but it needn't keep ON being crazy town if everyone chooses not to go that route. You can get through this.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-07-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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  #45  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:49 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I hadn't read this thread until now and as I was, I began to formulate a reply. Basically I was going to say that Matt needed to talk before he let it build up to an explosion. I was going to say it is perfectly acceptable for Matt to express to her , "I have been feeling the need for privacy and to connect with my wife alone, so I would rather that you not stay for two or three days at a time and, instead, go back home after an overnight. And please, just use your keys for emergencies when we ask you to. It has felt like an intrusion or an invasion of my privacy when I come home and you're already here." All of that can be discussed calmly and rationally, without raising any voices.

But then I read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
A few shorts hours ago, everything exploded, and it wasn't pretty at all.
This is what happens when important communications get bottled up inside - eventually the cork will pop and there is a mess. It is too bad that the break-up talk and the need for privacy talk got melded together - I think it is important that she knows they are separate issues.

However, now it is all out in the open and at least the truth of what has been seething underneath everything has been revealed. I would say that, as you all move forward, the MOST important thing to do is to forgive (you are all human and handled things the best way you knew how) and... DO NOT HOLD ONTO RESENTMENTS. Resentment is a killer. If you feel it rise within you, do everything to let it go. Look at the love you have and remind yourselves that it is this love that is at the base of the choices you are making.

Be tender with each other, and be thankful that the reality of the situation is now out in the open and no one is pretending anymore just to keep peace. The waters will be choppy for a bit, but keep coming back to loving each other, and loving yourselves. In actuality, though Matt could have expressed his feelings sooner or in a less volatile fashion, he stopped disrespecting himself by letting it out and that seems like a better path to take than just putting up with shit that makes him unhappy. You both now have an opportunity here to forge a new, more truthful way to relate. Maybe Si, the gf, will learn from this also. I would ask her to start looking at what she was getting from being so entwined in your marriage, and what she was looking for when she let herself become to entrenched in your home. I would suggest she look at how to expand her life to include more so she doesn't have to take so much from what you two have. Turn this explosion into a blessing and keep talking.
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  #46  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:51 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Yes; it doesn't sound like you are bad people at all, and you shouldn't give up on your relationship with girlfriend. Just learn to be more pro-active when it comes to communication.

Although, my theory of how a successful relationship works has something to do not with how well the people get along when things are good, but with how well they fight and get along when things are not so good.
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  #47  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:57 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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I am glad Matt let his feelings out, but sorry it was delayed and they came out in a hurtful fashion.

Poor Si! She has a lot to deal with. Very long term relationship with one, long friendship, short romantic/sexual relationship with the other, 2 households, love and investment in the children.

Your lives are so complicated. All in the medical field, working long hours in the same hospital, business trips for conferences, a preschooler and nursing teething baby, a nanny, 2 homes... You're obviously wealthy-- gated community, 4 guest rooms, but jeez, money don't buy happiness or automatic good communication skills.

In poly, the first rule is communicate, communicate, communicate. Be fearless about stating your needs. Especially now, with 2 noisy demanding children in the mix, clarity between the adults is KEY.

Sometimes dads can get resentful of the attention 2 young children need from the breastfeeding mom. Add in mom's gf and things are even more tricky.

Good luck with counseling!
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  #48  
Old 03-07-2013, 07:01 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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As far as today's session...the only thing I can say is, "Good grief." We're going to become regulars. (Si didn't show up, but it was still eventful.)

I don't know whether to laugh or cry to maintain sanity. I'll start with the positives.
  • Stronger and more efficient communication is an absolute must. The most important thing ever. Somewhere along this path, he and I lost some of it. I used to be so in tune with him and what he was feeling. I could tell what he was thinking by looking at him. We have to get it back. I'm a pretty good listener, but I don't think I was hearing Matt. Obviously, my relationship with Si has been hurting him deeply. That was news to me. Perhaps Matt tried to express that, and I guess in a selfish moment, I tuned it out or downplayed it.
  • I have to accept that he is mono, and he did have to make a sacrifice when agreeing to this. I also have to accept the fact that it was and possibly still is a struggle for him to fully embrace it. We have to do things to make each other feel loved and special. If my relationship with Si continues, I have to show him why I married him and what sets him apart from the rest and even Si.
  • In accepting the above, I also have to accept that he has changed and grown as a person. It's not criminal that he outgrew my lifestyle and desires something different. Change is inevitable and part of how we grow to be the people that we are today.
  • Needs have to be addressed and outlined. If there are any missing, we need to be proactive and getting them back on track, so that one person's needs don't overshadow the whole image. One of his is the need for her not to be around. Right now, it's ever. Work in progress.
  • We have to figure out which relationships are worth saving or ending. Obviously theirs is shot, but there's still a foundation of friendship, so there's a glimpse of hope. I can tell you right now. My marriage isn't ending. It's not to say that it's more important than my relationship with Si, but right now, we have to work on our marriage. Naturally, I have to work on my relationship with her. Matt--if he desires--has to work on their friendship and get back to a level of being civil at minimum. I'm of the belief that you have to put your marriage before children and such, so it's taking precedence for the time being. Our marriage is worth saving, so energy has to be put towards that. I'm guilty of neglect and maybe complacency. I can't change the past, but we are in control of what happens from here on out.

Now for the not so lovely side. Matt's true feelings were revealed, and boy, I tell you. They are something serious. The good news is he was calmer during the session but adamant and clear.

In a brief synopsis. He's hurting big time. He feels guilty about nearly hating my relationship with Si. It's not jealousy. It just reached a point where he couldn't contain those feelings any longer. They were showing in other ways. Excluding her? A way to make her feel a fraction of the pain he's been dealing with. Everything reached a point where it was bothering him so bad that he just exploded. When asked how he really feels about me being poly? It was an eye opener. In short, he doesn't feel like he's enough for me. He knows and gets this is what I believe in, but it doesn't ease the pain of the realization that when he looks at Si, she's getting half of him, which is me. He calls me his other half. He admitted to having a lot of resentment.

Yes, our lives are crazy. Money doesn't buy happiness. Actually, I'm cheap as hell. Our lives are just this crazy now because where we live, you have to have 50 CME credits per year, to keep the licenses active. Other than that, we travel leisurely, but right now, these conferences are needed. They had been scheduled long before the triad had formed and before the issues arose. We wanted to knock them out within the first part of the year. Matt and I are working to rearrange some things, so that we can continue with our sessions.

We decided not to put the kids in daycare because as their pediatrician said, "Daycare facilities are cesspools of germs." Granted, when they left, they'd be like little troopers with strong immune systems. I know what dwells within daycares, and we had no desire to be visiting a pediatrician once or twice a week behind upper respiratory issues and other illnesses. That's how a nanny came into the picture. Not the original plan, but after hearing that, it was like, "Umm OK. We'll keep them at home for awhile."

Si, didn't show up, which I get. Matt telling her that she wasn't part of our family probably cut deep. If you had been there all these years and then for someone to tell you that...it's probably too soon to be around them. I'm not even mad. A little disappointed, but we're human. Sometimes you have to step back and collect your thoughts. I respect her need for space. We're having dinner tonight and scheduled to attend a session without Matt on Friday. I'm not pushing the joint sessions. That's a fire hazard right now.

We're not taking it week by week or even day by day. It's more like hour by hour. We're going to get there some kind of way. I have faith, and I'm being positive. We can do this.
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  #49  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:54 PM
Livingmybestlife Livingmybestlife is offline
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My pediatrician had a different view. I can say to working in daycare for college I get it. There is a point the kids are going to need to build there immune system. For most modern children it is in daycare. Yes, they get sick. But it they don't they get sick in prek or kindergarten. I was a stay at home mom. But I put my little one day care mornings 3 days a week so she would get the immunity up.

There is also a first time teacher immunity build up. Frequently new teachers have to rebuild there immunity. Just a thought.

It seems like things got very blurred and Matt is feeling like he was the last priority of anything. I understand your a homebody, but in working this through you might consider, taking yourself to Kensi's for dates.

It seems Matt hasn't felt or heard about his needs. It is so weird to me that in dec you were writing about them having a child togather when in fact he was struggling. That is a huge difference in views.

I agree he needs to communicate, is it possible, that he didn't feel safe or feel he had to right to make his needs heard.

I can tell you that I have a major disconnect with my husband and we are currently separated, he had a lack of honesty going on. He is working with therapy towards resolvoing the family of origin issues that brought this about. My boyfriend and I just broke up because of issues in our relationship nothing to do with husband, more about not feeling respected. So I have great empathy for you.
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  #50  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:55 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Hour by hour will do. Do what it takes to put your own oxygen mask on and then... deal with the problems one at a time.

GG
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