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  #31  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:23 PM
peabean peabean is offline
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I've read this entire thread, and I just keep thinking that this poor woman is about to be dumped by two incredibly selfish people! She has been dating fulloflove for 12 years. Stuck by you through the birth of 2 children. Takes care of your kids for free!!

All this, and now she's an outsider in your home? How is she supposed to know that "this is the calm before the storm that has been brewing"? You act like she did something so incredibly wrong, wanting to be around the two people she's dating all the time. I mean, she is actually STILL DATING BOTH OF YOU to her knowledge!

You seem to have so much hate for her, but how would she magically know you need more alone time? Especially when you call her up to watch your kids, or hang out with your wife?

Seems like she was convenient to have around, but now she's worn out her welcome, so it's okay to dump her. How incredibly cruel.
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  #32  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:13 PM
Matt Matt is offline
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Originally Posted by peabean View Post
I've read this entire thread, and I just keep thinking that this poor woman is about to be dumped by two incredibly selfish people! She has been dating fulloflove for 12 years. Stuck by you through the birth of 2 children. Takes care of your kids for free!!

All this, and now she's an outsider in your home? How is she supposed to know that "this is the calm before the storm that has been brewing"? You act like she did something so incredibly wrong, wanting to be around the two people she's dating all the time. I mean, she is actually STILL DATING BOTH OF YOU to her knowledge!

You seem to have so much hate for her, but how would she magically know you need more alone time? Especially when you call her up to watch your kids, or hang out with your wife?

Seems like she was convenient to have around, but now she's worn out her welcome, so it's okay to dump her. How incredibly cruel.
Wait a minute. You have it all wrong. My wife isn't dumping her. I tried the poly thing. It's not for me. When I realized I would never love her, I knew w I had to end it. Why should I string her along when I know it's not the lifestyle for me. I can't keep feeling guilty like I'm cheating on my wife to protect her feelings.

I don't have any hate for her. I want it to be two of us. If wanting that is wrong then I'm messed up. I'm owning up tp my feelings. I can't control that. I didn't say this is how it better be. I long for that. What are my options? Own my feelings or get a divorce.

I never expected her to do anything for our kids. She volunteered because she loves them and has been there since conception. Cruel would be telling her she.doesn't need to be in their lives. I would never severe the relationship. They're too young to know what's going on.

Last edited by Matt; 03-06-2013 at 10:35 PM.
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  #33  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:29 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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You want to break up with your GF in your tier of the relationship, which is fine... You don't want to limit her relationship with your wife, which is fine...

Take a breath and recoup. Have this talk with her - that you can't be in a relationship with her anymore, but you don't want to jeopardize what she and your wife have. Take that step first, and then talk with her and your wife about how much time at your house works for you. It's not unreasonable for you to want to be around her less after breaking up - in fact, it seems like a reasonable outcome of breaking up.

You've had the ability (or the curse?) to think about this ad nauseum, while she has no idea this is coming. Taking it one thing at a time and letting the "less shared time" be an effect of the breakup may help her feel less like she's getting hit by a truck.

Good luck to you all!
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  #34  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:30 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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The hired help was in reference to her watching the kids until we get home. I should just say, "You did what you came here to do, and you can see your way out. We'll see you when we see you. Good bye." I'd even be a gentleman and open the door and clear the way for her to leave. That might need to be the approach. I'm too nice at times and probably roll over and accept shit when I shouldn't. That's my flaw.
YOU're too nice? Are you kidding me? You're expecting her to behave like the hired help (come and do stuff for you, then leave the second it's done), while at the same time not paying her, and you think you're the one being taken advantage of?

If you want her to leave after she's taken care of the kids, pay her, and at least make it clear you're treating her like a nanny. If you expect her to do it for you because you're family, be family.

This whole story reminds me of the "lady in the store" story. Let me copy-paste it from reddit:

Quote:
There's a lady in the grocery store who only needs one more item to finish her shopping. She finds the item she needs, but there is someone in the way. "No matter," she thinks, "I'm patient; I'll just wait."
The person in her way is checking out the nutritional labels of the products near the item the lady wants. He picks one up, reads it, and puts it back, then moves on to the next. The lady quietly thinks, "He sure is taking his time, but I'll be patient."
This goes on, and on, the guy picks up one item, looks at it, returns it and sometimes he even compares two at a time completely oblivious to the person waiting on the item. "I hope he finishes soon," the lady thinks.
Eventually the lady blurts out, "Will you hurry up or get out of the way!"
Had the lady said "Excuse me" at the start the event would never have escalated to the point of yelling. The moral here is that even going in with the best of intentions good people can still end up being unreasonably rude.
You're bearing with her, getting more and more frustrated, hoping she'll change. But I see nothing that leads me to believe she has any idea about any of it. So to her, it's going to go directly from "everything is fine" to "piss off, we can't take it anymore". And the cruel part is, she's never actually given a chance to change, because she's never told about the problem.
I see zero reason to believe she wouldn't adapt her attitude if she knew what was going on. So right now, you're being frustrated with the way she acts, without giving her any reason to change the way she acts. You even keep inviting her to be polite. Guess what, when you kick her out without a warning, that won't be polite.

If you want her to show up, watch the kids and then leave you alone, when you ask her to watch the kids you should say so. "Hey, we need someone to watch the kids, but then we want to be alone so would you mind coming and watching them, but then going back home after we get back?"
If it sounds unreasonable to you to ask her that (and it should. I can't imagine why anyone would agree to it. Maybe once or twice, as a favour, if you guys do favours for her as well, but certainly not on a regular basis) then you should realise it's even more unreasonable when you say "please stay for dinner" that she'll think "oh, they only wanted me to watch their kids. They didn't ask me here because I'm the girlfriend and they love me. They want me to piss off because I'm done being their servant for the night."
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  #35  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:50 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I think it's also important to realize that, because this has been a poly-fi relationship, this is all she has. Of course she's hanging around all the time, of course she doesn't know when to leave, when for all intents and purposes this IS her family, she hadn't had the option to build another one. After the break-up, maybe she can think about finding a primary partner of her own, someone whose bed she's actually allowed to sleep in, and building a home where she's more than a (often unwelcome) guest.

Matt, your feelings are not inherently wrong. There's nothing wrong with wanting to break up with someone or wanting space. You did the right thing by being honest with your wife, and I commend you for planning to break up with Si in person.

Maybe it will be a smooth adjustment to a less time-intensive vee, or maybe there'll be a big fight, and then again maybe this really is untenable, maybe in the end Si won't stay in your wife's life, as would clearly be your preference. It's just awfully sad to watch (albeit secondhand and from a distance) someone who's devoted her time, energy, and fidelity to the two of you and your children be met with resentment (I certainly wouldn't say that you come off like you hate her, but you've been very clear that you resent her presence) in return.
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Me, 30ish bi female, been doing solo poly for roughly 5 years. Gia, Clay, and Pike, my partners. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler.
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  #36  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:17 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I agree with AnnabelMore. I don't think your feelings are inherently wrong, people can grow apart, it happens. I do think though that it's been handled badly.

And I think regardless of what happens with this particular relationship, you need to work on communication. You seem to have issues with confrontation, and the problem with that is that other people aren't mind readers. It's good you told your wife how you felt. But you should have told the GF, as well, as soon as there was an issue, and worked through it together.
I don't know if anything is salvageable now, but I'm pretty sure things could have been worked out at the time. Maybe you would have drifted apart, but she would have been made aware of it, so instead of holding tighter, she would have looked for other things to hang on to. It would have been easier for her, and for you guys.

So I'm not saying you're not allowed to break up with her, but please be aware that you are partially responsible for the amount of frustration you've been experiencing. You allowed it to build up until it wasn't sustainable, instead of talking about it from the start and through the whole thing.
I'm well aware that even little things can become frustrating and anger you when things have been going on for a while and haven't been getting better. But while it makes sense to be upset if you have been asking her to go every time and she had insisted to stay every time, the anger you have for her not leaving when she doesn't know you would prefer her to is in my opinion, mistargeted, and you should take responsibility for letting it happen and hoping other people would change (why would they, for no reason?) rather than asking them to.

I realise that right now you're angry, resentful, and probably likely to lash out a bit at her, but I would suggest you be as diplomatic as you can. And diplomatic doesn't mean you can't be firm. It doesn't mean saying things you don't mean, like offering something and hoping she'll decline. It means saying "I want more time alone with my wife" instead of "get out!"
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:57 AM
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FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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At one point, we did live together, but it was short lived. That's how we got back to the point of saying, "No cohabitation." It was one of those things where we had to try it to fully rule it out. Saying something 10 years ago may not fit in the moment or with new dynamics. The triad had formed, and we wanted to try living together. That's what it was. Since then, we have all agreed that it was for the best that we not continue for the time being. Trial and error.

I have always viewed her as part of our family and an equal. Somewhere between mid-January and the end of February, there was a disconnect and a breakdown of massive proportions between them. He doesn't view her like that anymore. I wasn't in their relationship, so I can't pinpoint what could have triggered or it or started the downfall.

In my heart of hearts, I believe it's resentment that's been eating away at him for an extended amount of time. Resenting the fact that Si's part of me. Resenting the fact that I'm poly. Resenting the fact that he has to "share" me. Resenting the fact that she's part of our children's lives. Resenting the fact that it's 3 and not the societal norm of 2. Resenting the fact that he's part of a poly family. Resenting the fact that he has to include her. Resenting the fact that he has to open up our home to her. As we all know, resentment can breed feelings of hate, disdain, and utter dislike. That's where I tend to believe it's stemming from. When you contemplate telling someone that you wish they weren't part around and that you intentionally leave them out, it screams resentment. Like I told him, I don't think it's about her being around too much. That's likely a cover for the real issue. I think it's about her being around and in my heart.

Counseling is needed. Resentment is unhealthy. Indirect or direct. It's heartbreaking.
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  #38  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:17 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullofLove1052 View Post
That's likely a cover for the real issue. I think it's about her being around and in my heart.
Having faced similar resentments (not exactly poly related), if I had to guess, it's more about he is feeling neglected by the person he loves the most.

Like I said, I've faced similar resentments in my marriage. I hated his friends, I hated the organizations he was OVERLY involved with, I hated the church, etc. It was taking ALL of his time and attention and there was nothing left for me, except the crap. His friends knew about things in his life before I did. People were always at my house when I got home, etc. It hurt and I nearly divorced over it. In the mist of the hurt, I did want all the outside influences to go away, but also knew that would make him unhappy. We did go to counceling and we addressed some of the areas that had been sorely neglected and things improved. I no longer hate or resent any of the things I did before. Truth is it had nothing to do the those other things or people it was that he was neglecting me and in turn we were neglecting each other. I can now happily tell him to "go away, go play with your friends for a few days".

Quote:
Counseling is needed. Resentment is unhealthy. Indirect or direct. It's heartbreaking.
MOST DEFINITELY! Sooner the better, don't let this stuff fester any longer.

I also recommend the book "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman and "the Seven Principals of Making a Marriage Work" by John Gottman
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  #39  
Old 03-07-2013, 02:20 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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So it sounds like both want to have the conversation with the GF in a constructive way. Could do it with a counselor. However you feel it is most useful.

The goals to achieve seem to be --
  • he breaks up with GF so (she is his metamour only) and NOT (his GF AND meta.)
  • He remains married to wife.
  • He learns to speak up and meet his wants, needs and limits himself. (No mind reader expectations)
  • His polyship partners respect his wants, needs, and limits once shared if reasonable (And wanting time to himself in his home with his spouse is reasonable.)
  • He lets go of resentments.
  • Wife learns to speak up when she notices things are "off" with her partner rather than ignoring.
  • Wife learns to ASK for wants, needs, and limits updates if they are not disclosed.
  • GF learns of limits/boundaries and respects them

There could be more things -- y'all list them out.

To me it sounds like you could write out your personal standard in this polyship and get the expectations, responsibilities and rights laid out. Address behavior done/not done and hold each other accountable better. It is ok to make mistakes -- people are not perfect. But HOW do you want to move it forward? With a spirit of what?

Compassion and forgiveness?
Resentment and grr?
Something else?

Yes, you will all feel things. But feelings are not always logical and in the heat of the moment one can be tempted to do all sorts of stuff in behavior that is led by illogical feelings. Keep it on the stuff done/not done. The actions, the behaviors.

Can't be all "head" all the time logic.
Can't be all "heart" all the time emotion.
Best decisions are made head and heart together.

So figure out how to move this forward. Could apologize to her for not being more clear in the past on wants, needs, and limits. Ask her how she would like to be treated from now on in a "V shape" thing now that the "triad shape" thing is not a runner if a "V" shape thing is the new plan.

DH can wish it was a two person thing but it is just NOT that any more. Could digest that and then focus on what you have rather than what you do not have.

Could focus on how you want to be together NOW as you break down the elephant sized problem into smaller more manageable bits.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-07-2013 at 02:26 AM.
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  #40  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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Default Welcome home from hell. Counseling session #1 is today.

Thank you, GalaGirl and well, everyone.

A few shorts hours ago, everything exploded, and it wasn't pretty at all. Matt ended the relationship. Si was understanding and respected that. When she asked was there anything else? It went from cloudy skies to an ominous sky with dark clouds and lightning strike something. Let's just say Matt bared his soul and every feeling. It went from open honesty to venom being spewed. Matt didn't say anything in a rude way, but he made his feelings clear and known. What was said attributed to her reaction. From that second on, it was no holds barred.

I wanted to stop it, but I don't think it could have been prevented. To see the two people I love going at it like that, I can't even put that into words. In all the years of knowing them, I have never seen those sides come out. I know that when you're upset and when your heart is involved, you may say things out of hurt. That's not what that was. It wasn't an ex-lovers quarrel.

Quite a few things came from their argument. I hope those things are a result of anger and a hot-head. I can't talk to either of them right now. They have to calm down first. I don't do the yelling and screaming. Right now, keeping them apart is important. She's at her place right now. My husband is with our kids right now. Session #1 is in a couple of hours. They can't talk this one out by themselves. I have no desire to be the referee. With as heated as things were left, it would be the beginning of another argument. Praying for the best and clarity.
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