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  #21  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:18 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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You REALLY do need to work on your communication skills.
This! How is she supposed to know you need her to go home unless you tell her. You guys need a sit down with all three of you. It doesn't have to be nasty, but it does need to be firm that you need space and so much "togetherness" is stressing you out! Be VERY clear that an invitation for dinner shouldn't automatically be seen as an invitation to stay the night.

Once a week a group of us goes over to a friends house. On occasion she will offer her couch to any who want to stay, but other times, she just flat says "Sorry guys, but I need to kick you all out". Do NOT be afraid to ask people to leave your home when you feel the need for space. If you feel the need to soften the request, you could always follow it up with a dinner invitation for few days from now.

It sounds like you actually do like her company, just is much smaller doses than you've been getting.
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:43 PM
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So you're ready to go from inviting her to stay for dinner so she doesn't feel like hired help, assuming she'll politely exit stage left, to "nothing gets the message across like the cops showing up"?

You REALLY do need to work on your communication skills. Not your wife's, not the girlfriend's, but YOURS. There are more than those two extremes. That's no way to handle this.

I hope you learn and grow from this episode in your life, that is all.

No, no, no. Maybe I didn't convey that right. Let me rephrase it. My communication skills aren't lacking or unclear. If she's there, an invitation is extended. Not ever at my insistence. On my end, it's because of my wife wanting her around. She's there. We're cooking, and it's would you like to stay for dinner? Not one that has to be accepted every time. It's like when someone says, "Hey. If there's anything you need, let me know." Do people mean it every time they say it.

I don't want the cops showing up at my house. That was in a joking sense to lighten the mood. Everything doesn't have to be heavy all the time. Before it reaches that level, she will be banned from the premises. It's heading that way.

The hired help was in reference to her watching the kids until we get home. I should just say, "You did what you came here to do, and you can see your way out. We'll see you when we see you. Good bye." I'd even be a gentleman and open the door and clear the way for her to leave. That might need to be the approach. I'm too nice at times and probably roll over and accept shit when I shouldn't. That's my flaw.
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Matt Matt is offline
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Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
This! How is she supposed to know you need her to go home unless you tell her. You guys need a sit down with all three of you. It doesn't have to be nasty, but it does need to be firm that you need space and so much "togetherness" is stressing you out! Be VERY clear that an invitation for dinner shouldn't automatically be seen as an invitation to stay the night.

Once a week a group of us goes over to a friends house. On occasion she will offer her couch to any who want to stay, but other times, she just flat says "Sorry guys, but I need to kick you all out". Do NOT be afraid to ask people to leave your home when you feel the need for space. If you feel the need to soften the request, you could always follow it up with a dinner invitation for few days from now.

It sounds like you actually do like her company, just is much smaller doses than you've been getting.
I get what you're saying. I don't want an argument, but it's going to happen. It needs to happen. I'm not the argumentative type, but this is the calm before the storm that has been brewing. As of this moment, she isn't aware that I don't want to be part of a poly family and that if I had my say, she would be cut out of our family and just a friend. My wife knows, but it isn't her place to convey what I feel and think. That's my job. That's not my place or right to say who she can and can't be with or to change her lifestyle, but I'm going to tell her girlfriend. If we're going to open up the box and be honest, that has to be said.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:58 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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My communication skills aren't lacking or unclear. If she's there, an invitation is extended. Not ever at my insistence. On my end, it's because of my wife wanting her around. She's there. We're cooking, and it's would you like to stay for dinner? Not one that has to be accepted every time.
If you do not want to risk her staying? Do not invite. Simple. Or if you know she stays each time she is asked, ask less often. Could be more assertive in your communication so you are meeting your own needs first. Rather than expecting others to mind reader them from information you provide that is actually... not accurate.

Quote:
It's like when someone says, "Hey. If there's anything you need, let me know." Do people mean it every time they say it.
I do. I am also not vague. I am clear. "Hey, if there's something I could do for you let me know... I'm good for making a casserole, a chat on the phone, taking you out to lunch to air out... stuff in that arena." I do not want them to ask me something bigger like "come take my kids for a month or come clean out my garage" or something.

I do not offer unless I am prepared for the other person to take me up on the offer. Otherwise I put myself in a position of having to go "well... I offered but did not mean it really." I'm also prepared to go "Ok. I'm willing... but that's a bigger job than I can do. How about a smaller job? Maybe like... lasagna? I make great lasagna!"

If you do not want to be doing for others -- don't offer and create an expectation there. Just a whole lot easier to say something else.

In your case rather than "want to stay to dinner? But after that we kinda need alone time" is clearer. Or even don't bother with dinner -- "Thanks for the visit! We'll see you again next time!" is much clearer and still polite if you are done and want the guests to shoo.

Quote:
As of this moment, she isn't aware that I don't want to be part of a poly family and that if I had my say, she would be cut out of our family and just a friend. My wife knows, but it isn't her place to convey what I feel and think. That's my job. That's not my place or right to say who she can and can't be with or to change her lifestyle, but I'm going to tell her girlfriend. If we're going to open up the box and be honest, that has to be said.
You did have your say didn't you? When you entered into polyshipping with wife? You have your say now. In your choosing to stay-ness.

Does it need to be said at this time?

You are going to break up with her yourself. You are cutting her out of YOUR romance life. Making her "just a friend" already to you.

You do not want a divorce and you seem to accept it is not your place or right to say who wife can and can't be with or to change her lifestyle. That's the price of admission right now to be with the wife. Be willing to pay it. If not, why be here?

Since the GF will be still around as your metamour, how does it make life easier for YOU in metamourship if you share the bold above at this time? Is that more for "getting even" than anything else right now? Aren't you already achieving your needs with breaking up with her and re-establishing home boundaries?

Tread with caution when upset/in a temper.

What you do to the GF you do to your wife. You wife is now a package deal. I know you are not crazy about the unbalanced dynamic here, but could take steps to correct that first, could take time to see if the solution is working or not first. Could not spend time looking at the past -- it is PAST. You may wish it were back the old way but it is NOT that way today. Deal with what IS here rather than spend too much energy what iffing and creating upset in yourself.

Could check out pitfall #8. Could choose to be generous to your wife because you accept the price of admission here is this -- being in a polyship. Perhaps reviewing that all three together would help highlight to GF her responsibilities in this too -- she too could be generous of wife's time WITH YOU ALONE.

WHAT you say is only part of communication. HOW and WHEN you say it plays into it too -- how well your message will be received.

Hope the talk is productive. Hang in there!

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-06-2013 at 08:31 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:05 PM
Matt Matt is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
If you do not want to risk her staying? Do not invite. Simple.

Or if you know she stays each time she is asked, ask less often.

Could be more assertive in your communication.



I do. I do not offer unless I am prepared for the other person to take me up on the offer. Otherwise I put myself in a position of having to go "well... I offered but did not mean it really."

Just a whole lot easier to say something else.

"Thanks for the visit! We'll see you again next time!" is much clearer and still polite.

Galagirl
Right, right. I take the blame for assuming that she would turn it down. This has went on, and I played my part and I take responsibility. I should have nipped it in the bud when I realized it was becoming a problem. I'm human, and my judgment is sometimes off the mark.
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:16 PM
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FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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From my POV, I know I was an enabler of sorts. I allowed it to continue even when I felt the tension between them. It's his home as much as mine, and he should have a say as to who can be there and when. It was selfish of me, and I put his comfort second, when it should have been massively important. Within the confines of our home, Si is virtually an outsider. Our home is like my sanctuary and my comfort zone, and I know I'd be peeved if I had to deal with this. He shouldn't have ever had to feel like he wasn't at ease in his own residence. I have apologized for that.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:20 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I don't want an argument, but it's going to happen. It needs to happen. I'm not the argumentative type, but this is the calm before the storm that has been brewing.
Just curious. What is your definition of an argument? I only ask, because my husband and I don't always agree on basic terminology (on more than one word I discovered) and he says he avoids telling me things because he doesn't want an argument. What he really means is he doesn't want me upset. While upset can also include and argument, it doesn't always, sometimes it's just crying, sad, hurt, disappointed, etc. In his mind, it all gets lumped into one and labeled "argument".

Obviously, this will be a difficult conversation. There will be hurt feelings and more than likely misunderstandings. Don't be surprised when she comes out with "Why the fuck didn't you say something sooner?" You might want to do a google search on ways to effectively communicate - believe me it can help.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:42 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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"Examples of what I can live with. If I'm working overnight, which isn't unusual, it's cool if she's there with my wife. I know they havetheir Lifetime movie nights. Saves me from crazy movie central. No issue. She comes over on Sunday's to watch that show Downton Abbey, maybe? Cool, but here's the problem. She doesn't leave that night or the following morning or even ask if we mind if she stays longer than expected. It's assumed that it's wanted by both of us. (If asked, the answer would be no from me every time.) She'll leave to go to work or visit her apartment to get clothes, and then she returns like it's her house. We get home around 6 or 7, and when we get there, she's already there. I didn't want to treat her like the hired help and tell her that her services were no longer needed for the evening. Maybe I should have, and this would be under control. As a goodwill gesture, we've asked if she wanted to stay for dinner. I thought it would be understood that after dinner, she could politely exit the stage on the left and enjoy her night-at her own apartment. Never panned out that way."

This is something I struggle with as a secondary partner to a woman with a primary partner in almost EXACTLY the ways you're describing here. I babysit a lot, I have a key, we hang out for one reason or another, such as doing a craft thing together or working out together and then I end up staying for dinner and then continuing to chill with them afterwards. Exactly the same. And it's often subtly awkward for me because I don't know where the lines are... am I a welcome guest whose company is valued, or am I intruding? If I excuse myself after dinner on a given night, would they say "oh, it's a shame she didn't want to hang more, I guess she's tired of our company" or "phew, glad she knew better than to overstay her welcome."? I can't know, I'm not a mind reader, and it often feels like to ask would be to sound insecure.

I think I need to get better at asking rather than just staying. I usually stay as the default because I like their company so much. It's not like there aren't other things I could be doing -- there are loads of things! -- but I just enjoy being with them. However, that's no excuse to potentially be impinging on their family time beyond what might be wanted. However, as I mentioned, it can be hard to ask! And sometimes I might just not think of it.

Still while I'm willing to take more responsibility for that, it sounds like Si probably has no idea that she needs to, may even think quite the opposite if you're always welcoming in words (if not in your heart). Like I said, people aren't mind readers. I'd hope that my gf and her husband would trust my level-headedness enough to know that if they said "Hey, you're the bee's knees, but we've noticed a pattern in our interactions where we all hang out all night long even though the two of us could use more just-us time... would you be offended if we made a habit of one or both of us checking in with you on whether we're in group hangout mode or couple mode on a more regular basis? Full disclosure, this will almost certainly result in less group hangout time. We know that's a change, but we think it'll result in better quality hangouts when we do hangout."

Clear, direct, honest, no blaming, no guilt. I'd totally respect that, and I'd be grateful to them for saving me from the awkward position of having to guess as to whether or not they wanted me around. Do you think Si wouldn't? Is she not someone whose level headedness you can trust? Why does it necessarily have to be an argument?
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Last edited by AnnabelMore; 03-06-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:11 PM
kkxvlv kkxvlv is offline
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Fulloflove

I can't help but worry your girlfriend is at home right now thinking her two partners were having a nice vacation and she can't wait for you to come home so she can spend time with you both and the children who she probably also has feelings for since she's been in their lives since birth. Meanwhile you're both here talking about how she's no longer welcome.

Does she have any idea this is going on?

Out of curiosity I looked up your introduction post from only 3 months ago. You mentioned in another post that you ARE all living together though she is maintains a residence of her own. It was not clear that co-habitation was a no no and you said "Our children have three parents who love them, and they know that."

Now you're saying she is virtually an outsider? What happened? Where does she stand in your life? If she comes over to watch your kids, and she isn't getting paid, she probably didn't come over to serve you and then be shown out. She probably did it because she cares for all of you. She's not the nanny and she isn't a house guest, she's your girlfriend of 12 years and as far as she knows at the moment, she's in a relationship with your husband as well. If you invite her to stay for dinner you can't blame her for accepting. Obviously the relationship between the two of them didn't work out and he is irritated by the amount of time she is at the house but it sounds like he wants her out of the picture all together and you aren't ruling that out either. You've said you understand the need to respect his space, but also that you prefer to be at home. What options does that leave your girlfriend?

Imagine the reality check this girlfriend is in for when he tells her. "I don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore, I can't stand having you around, and your girlfriend of 12 years isn't ruling out dumping you for monogamy as well. Thanks for watching my kids for free though, please leave now."
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  #30  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:21 PM
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Kkxvlv --

Thank you for laying that all out. I wanted to say it but didn't have the mental/emotional energy. As someone who is in a position that mirrors Si's, this thread is pretty hard for me to read. Still, I imagine that, like I would, she'd rather have the difficult truth than a pretty lie. I just hope she gets that truth in a way that's kind and that values her commitment, investment, feelings, and contributions, not a way that treats her as disposable because she's not "primary", not a biological parent, unexpectedly not wanted by one member, and perhaps has been a little obtuse in not knowing when a polite "please stay" was in fact disingenuous.
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