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  #391  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:37 PM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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You are such a dork. It's a good thing you're pretty.

I also said "hubris", a bit of vocabulary I thought might redeem me for the poop.

Now get back on topic, we've drifted into the Land Of Wacky.
You are so shallow...I feel like a piece of meat. But at least a pretty one.

Your vocabulary was never in question, Wacky Ducky.
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  #392  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:58 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Personally I don't see the "not looking" as a form of hubris, thinking I deserve things to fall onto my lap. Kind of the opposite, I think I shouldn't try and "get" other people, and let them decide to come to me, and so instead of working on convincing someone to date me, I'd rather work on myself, through all the things you mentioned.

And when you do all these things, you do meet people, but it's a side-effect of working on becoming a better person. I like this better than the search being an action done for itself with no other purpose than getting someone to date me.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear. In the end I don't think it matters that much, it's just that one method feels too unlike me. I might very well change over time, after all the "just happen to meet someone" method is certainly not efficient as far as I can tell (you don't meet that many people accidentally if you don't go towards them as well). But while I totally get going towards people to be social and a friend (and I realise that more might come out of it), I'm uneasy with the idea of going towards someone with the idea of dating already being there.
It takes me 6 months to a year of being friends with someone before I can tell if I want to date them or not. It doesn't seem to work so well with the dating site model, in which people expect to start dating or move on before that amount of time.
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  #393  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:09 PM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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Personally I don't see the "not looking" as a form of hubris, thinking I deserve things to fall onto my lap. Kind of the opposite, I think I shouldn't try and "get" other people, and let them decide to come to me, and so instead of working on convincing someone to date me, I'd rather work on myself, through all the things you mentioned.
Fair enough if that works for you, but I am not a passive person in that way. I like to go out and and 'get' what I want. Sometimes I don't get it, and that's fine. Sometimes it turns out what I thought I wanted wasn't what I wanted, and that's also fine.

Also, if you wait for another person to come to you, is that not waiting for them to come and 'get' you, the same thing you are saying is wrong? If everyone took such a standoffish approach, people would really struggle to get together.

Plus the passive method can easily be a way of rationalising a person's fear of rejection. Not saying this is you doing this, but it's easier to wait for someone to come to you than it is to make the effort of approaching someone else.

I don't know if you're male or female but I've found as a man that most women seem to like a man who gets on and goes for what he wants, a man who is assertive, who gets things done. They don't tend to like wishy washy types that wait for good things to come to them. Obvious generalisations and of course there are many exceptions...but being this way works just fine for me.

It sounds like we are polar opposites in terms of dating. 6 months to a year of waiting just does not compute with me at all...I prefer to just throw myself right in there and figure out the other person as I go. Life's too short to wait around for everything to be 'just right'!

Last edited by ManofDiscovery; 03-04-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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  #394  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:31 PM
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StudentofLife StudentofLife is offline
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I think I shouldn't try and "get" other people, and let them decide to come to me, and so instead of working on convincing someone to date me, I'd rather work on myself, through all the things you mentioned.

And when you do all these things, you do meet people, but it's a side-effect of working on becoming a better person. I like this better than the search being an action done for itself with no other purpose than getting someone to date me.

I might very well change over time, after all the "just happen to meet someone" method is certainly not efficient as far as I can tell (you don't meet that many people accidentally if you don't go towards them as well).

It's probably reasonable to assume that different approaches work for different people, no "one size fits all" formula.

I have simply noted that in my own experience as my age increases, the number of people deciding to approach me has decreased, requiring me to put forth a greater effort to being proactive if I want to meet new people. Perhaps that is the "changing over time" you mentioned above.

Then again, since the creation of the internet, dating in general has changed so drastically from when I was young. The world is not the same place it used to be.
I do remember reading someone here commenting that for people in their 20's/30's there were a greater number of interested responses at online dating sites, as well as in-person meet and greets.
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  #395  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:37 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Fair enough if that works for you, but I am not a passive person in that way. I like to go out and and 'get' what I want. Sometimes I don't get it, and that's fine. Sometimes it turns out what I thought I wanted wasn't what I wanted, and that's also fine.

Also, if you wait for another person to come to you, is that not waiting for them to come and 'get' you, the same thing you are saying is wrong? If everyone took such a standoffish approach, people would really struggle to get together.

Plus the passive method can easily be a way of rationalising a person's fear of rejection. Not saying this is you doing this, but it's easier to wait for someone to come to you than it is to make the effort of approaching someone else.

... 6 months to a year of waiting just does not compute with me at all...I prefer to just throw myself right in there and figure out the other person as I go. Life's too short to wait around for everything to be 'just right'!
I'm in the "not looking" camp. (Figured I'd get that out there right off the bat.)

But, perhaps, my perspective is slightly different, so I will talk about it (no hubris here!).

When I "fell" into a relationship with my (now)husband(MrS) I was specifically NOT looking for "a relationship". I eschewed all relationships, relationships were for the weak and brain-washed...in my opinion, the concept of "love" was some BS that people made up so that they had an excuse to sleep with each other. I HATED the very CONCEPT of dating (still do, nothing has changed there).

I just wanted to get laid once in a while...so I propositioned some nice cute guys... then one stuck. I never intended to "date" MrS - I just never stopped going over to his apartment. Because, why? This cute boy was actually an interesting person. I wanted to spend time with him, we had great conversations, we became friends.

Six months later it was pointed out to me (by an outside observer) that we were "in a relationship" that I was his "girlfriend" - GET THE FUCK OUT?! THAT'S what you idiots are making such a fuss about? Interesting, adorable, fun, smart people that you want to talk to and have sex with? Like...forever?

I don't think of this as being "passive" at all. I was actively trying to avoid relationships...until I couldn't avoid the obvious fact that I was in one. The stupid NRE (which I hate), the awkward "dating" (which I hate), let's just skip THAT whole bit (to the extent possible...it was still there, I was just trying to ignore it, rationalize it away...)

Ditto for Dude...NOT looking, just happened. BUT it wasn't like I was sitting around saying "Oh, I wish I was in another relationship...but I am afraid of rejection." Nope, I would have been happy if I had never met him (since I was happy already)...but then I DID meet him and stuff happened and here we are.

Yes, I can see if you WANT something then you might feel driven to go out and FIND it. But I never WANTED either of these two relationships...until I had them. I wasn't MISSING anything. I never felt like I was ever WAITING for anything. I wasn't WISHING someone would approach me...I would have been happy if no one had approached me at all. (Seeing as I can't stand most people...)

Jane("Introvert-With-a-Capital-I")Q
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (23+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (4+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi married female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 03-05-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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  #396  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:14 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Also, if you wait for another person to come to you, is that not waiting for them to come and 'get' you, the same thing you are saying is wrong? If everyone took such a standoffish approach, people would really struggle to get together.
I probably phrased that wrong. Actually I've always asked out the guys I was interested in, and I probably would reject people who asked me out unless I was already considering to ask them out at that point.
What I meant was that I'm more concerned about doing things, and the meeting people happens as a side-effect but not the main goal, rather than looking for people and doing the thing as an excuse to meet them.

So for instance, I'll join a board game club because I want to play board games. I'll go towards people and ask to play with them. And after a few months or years of playing once a week, I might grow to like someone I met that way. THEN, I'll ask them out to a date.
I would not, however, think "mmh, how could I meet people. Oh, I know, board game club", and then show up, and look at everyone while thinking "would I want to date him?".
I think it would just ruin the whole experience, I wouldn't have fun, I wouldn't meet friends because I'd be so busy looking for lovers, and I could miss out on someone who is perfect for me because you'd only really know about that after being together enough to know how each other works.
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  #397  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:59 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Waiting around for the universe to deliver the goods without being willing to take responsibility smacks of a complacent "I deserve, so I must receive" viewpoint, and is one that, for me, leads to the universe taking a big poop on my head to show me the price of hubris.
That misses the point entirely. The viewpoint BG and I are speaking of is not remotely "I deserve, so I must receive." It's "I'm responsible for making changes to my life and not relying on another person to make me happy."

When I've found love, it's never been because I was sitting around waiting for the universe to drop love in my lap. It's happened only when I've realized that I have to make my own happiness, and that I can't rely on another person to fill the voids in my life - I need to fill them myself.

As a matter of consequence, filling the voids in my life made me into a person who is more emotionally whole and complete -- exactly the kinds of attributes you would want in a partner.
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  #398  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:21 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
Fair enough if that works for you, but I am not a passive person in that way. I like to go out and and 'get' what I want. Sometimes I don't get it, and that's fine. Sometimes it turns out what I thought I wanted wasn't what I wanted, and that's also fine.

Also, if you wait for another person to come to you, is that not waiting for them to come and 'get' you, the same thing you are saying is wrong? If everyone took such a standoffish approach, people would really struggle to get together.
But what is it that you really "want?" Is finding a girlfriend an end in itself, or a means to and end?

If it's an end in itself, then you're not looking at people as people, you're looking at them as roles. "I don't care about you as a person, I care about my status of not being single."

Or, like most people, is it really that you just want to be happy, and you've been duped by Hollywood into thinking that finding love will solve all your problems?

Oh, how it will not. Real relationships are a shit ton of work. They create far more problems than they solve.

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So for instance, I'll join a board game club because I want to play board games. I'll go towards people and ask to play with them. And after a few months or years of playing once a week, I might grow to like someone I met that way. THEN, I'll ask them out to a date.
I would not, however, think "mmh, how could I meet people. Oh, I know, board game club", and then show up, and look at everyone while thinking "would I want to date him?".
I think it would just ruin the whole experience, I wouldn't have fun, I wouldn't meet friends because I'd be so busy looking for lovers, and I could miss out on someone who is perfect for me because you'd only really know about that after being together enough to know how each other works.
Exactly! You have to do the activities that, in and of themselves, make you happy. Be it stamp collecting or trainspotting, the activity has to be the end in itself. That's what I meant by "You can't trick the universe." You can't pretend that you're going to a stamp collecting convention to discuss stamps, and then secretly be hoping you'll find your true love there. You have to genuinely be interested in stamps.

The other thing I've noticed is that the people I've had the best relationships have never been the people I would ever have thought I'd find myself with. When you go out looking for relationships, you tend to be too picky. But many people have met their mates through mutual friends, doing something completely unrelated to dating. If you go out looking for friends, your criteria are a lot more reasonable.

But, I have to accept that I'll never convince anyone of this, and I don't know why I try. People tried to convince me of it when I was stuck at that stage, and I figured they were full of crap. It's really a skill you only gain with maturity, when you reach the stage in life that you stop expecting other people to solve your problems. And that includes the "problem" of "I don't have a partner." The best way to solve that "problem" is realize that it isn't a problem at all.
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  #399  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:50 AM
ManofDiscovery ManofDiscovery is offline
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That misses the point entirely. The viewpoint BG and I are speaking of is not remotely "I deserve, so I must receive." It's "I'm responsible for making changes to my life and not relying on another person to make me happy."

When I've found love, it's never been because I was sitting around waiting for the universe to drop love in my lap. It's happened only when I've realized that I have to make my own happiness, and that I can't rely on another person to fill the voids in my life - I need to fill them myself.
Strangely, despite the fact that your intention is to disagree, your first paragraph actually agrees with everything I said. I'm responsible for getting what I want in life, so I go and get it.

However if we could stick to the facts and not make a ton of assumptions, that would be nice (or before making assumptions, at least ask questions). At no point did I say any of the following:

- I am not happy and I am wanting someone else to make me happy
- There is a 'void' in my life
- Online dating sites are the only way I meet women
- I have no other interests beyond meeting people online
- In the interests I do have, the only reason I do them is to meet women, rather than because I enjoy the interest itself

The online dating is just a side addition to normal life, guys. Another tool for meeting people. That's all it is.

Now if we could all get back to the actual point of the thread, that would be tickety-boo.
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  #400  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:55 AM
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or before making assumptions, at least ask questions
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
But what is it that you really "want?" Is finding a girlfriend an end in itself, or a means to and end?

Or, like most people, is it really that you just want to be happy, and you've been duped by Hollywood into thinking that finding love will solve all your problems?
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Originally Posted by ManofDiscovery View Post
At no point did I say any of the following:
At no point did I say that you did. I'll let you in on a big secret: when someone quotes a post and then types some stuff immediately below it, that response is actually to the person quoted immediately above it.

I truly do not understand people who respond to general posts directed at no one in particular, and act all sensitive like they're being personally attacked. I can think of only two explanations. The first is that the post hits a little too close to home and they feel the need to defend themselves against the imaginary attack. The second is that they're self-centred and just think everything that anybody ever says is about them.
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