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  #31  
Old 06-12-2009, 02:52 AM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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I think that had a whole lot to do with it... and we didn't respect L's discomfort with the situation at all. She made a lot of sacrifices to her own comfort and boundaries so that we could be together, but we didn't even begin to respect that the way we should have, and I see that now.

And it wasn't just one of her past relationships that ended with her being left for a man, it was, to my knowledge, ALL of her past relationships ended with her partner leaving her for a man. I know that's going to be a reoccurring theme in this, but i also know that it's something i have to be much more aware of than i had been in order to keep her knowing that she's my wife and i'm not going anywhere. It would be easier if we were both strictly gay and S was an experiment, but he wasn't, and I'm not. *shrugs* It complicates things, but I don't want to close myself off from half of the population just because they have Y chromosomes; that's not what poly is about to me... and if i can have the kind of relationship i have with my wife with a man, which i did with S, (emotionally that is) and hadn't ever had before, then it can happen again, and I should be open to that. And if my next "long term potential" partner is a woman, well, that's fine too.

A friend of ours is going to speak to him tonight to see what happened, and then hopefully S and I will be able to sit down and talk early next week so that we can all start to get some closure. I have no expectations that S and I will have anything after this, though I would deeply, deeply cherish his friendship if he feels able to give it to me at any point after this. That's his call though, and I respect that.

In the meantime, I'll just start trying to deal with this in the best way I know how.

Oh... and of COURSE the copy of "the Ethical Slut" that I requested from intralibrary loan came today... *sigh*

J
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  #32  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:16 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Originally Posted by TankDiveGirl View Post

Oh... and of COURSE the copy of "the Ethical Slut" that I requested from intralibrary loan came today... *sigh*

J
The Ethical Slut....shiver..my arch nemesis LOL! This was definitely not the best book to give me when I was having initial problems with polyamory. Honestly, to my mono mind it read like a training guide for people who want to just have lots of sex with lots of people!! If that was what poly was about I would have bolted as fast as possible. I stopped reading it before it ruined my whole outlook. A book titled "Polyamory;The New Love " I think, was much more beneficial.
I go to poly meetings and funny enough, I am the only person who doesn't like that book at all...I am also the only mono person there out of about 25!
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  #33  
Old 06-12-2009, 03:30 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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Yeah, I got my wife the Ethical Slut. I don't think that went over too well. The basic idea she got from it was that polyamory people just want to have lots and lots of sex with lots of people. Not one of my better ideas...
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  #34  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:01 AM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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So glad you guys posted about the book, I was about to order a copy for my girls to look over.....that might have been disastrous.

Jamie, I hope everything works out for you, L and S. Looking at L's history, I am amazed she even ever let you talk to S! Boy, has she been burned. I am curious though about one thing....You obviously are bi and probably poly.....what made you choose to marry another woman, and want poly with a guy? I would have thought you would have married a male and incorporated another woman into your triad. Were you rescuing her from being burned by so many men? Just wondering.
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  #35  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:06 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Yeah, I got my wife the Ethical Slut. I don't think that went over too well. The basic idea she got from it was that polyamory people just want to have lots and lots of sex with lots of people. Not one of my better ideas...
There is some humour to it. As long as it works out. And really, I know some people that identify as poly who do want to have sex with lots of people. That is just not an environment I can be healthy in or will participate in. To each thier own though
Take care
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  #36  
Old 06-12-2009, 05:16 AM
alphafour alphafour is offline
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The basic idea she got from it was that polyamory people just want to have lots and lots of sex with lots of people. .

It seems to be a popular view. I met my first asexuals on this site. For some reason, I don't think it has to do with sex for them. I can't put my finger on it just yet, but give me time and I will figure out why.

I just spoke to another mono about it, and she seemed to think that it was just an excuse to cheat. For some I suppose that is what they get out of it. Many mono people are not prepared for the honesty required, so cheating is their only excuse to advocate poly, and simply another way to hide or excuse their cheating behaviors. I have heard so many cheating stories over the last few years that I just get sick of it. I will never see poly as an excuse, but I do see it as a way out of the stigma, and a way into a very honest and trusting relationship.

I only have a mono relationship at this time. I love my wife. God rest her soul. Tina passed in 2004. I am looking for a second.

Thanks for quick book review. I won't be recommending it.

Last edited by alphafour; 06-12-2009 at 05:20 AM.
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  #37  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:13 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Try Jenny Block's new book, or Tristan Taromino's book.
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  #38  
Old 06-12-2009, 04:30 PM
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Lemondrop Lemondrop is offline
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Originally Posted by Quath View Post
Yeah, I got my wife the Ethical Slut. I don't think that went over too well. The basic idea she got from it was that polyamory people just want to have lots and lots of sex with lots of people. Not one of my better ideas...
That's very interesting. I found it very sensitive and helpful. But perhaps my mindset is slightly different...I wasn't trying to open up to polyamory, I was already involved and trying to understand.
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  #39  
Old 06-12-2009, 10:39 PM
TankDiveGirl TankDiveGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark1npt View Post
So glad you guys posted about the book, I was about to order a copy for my girls to look over.....that might have been disastrous.

Jamie, I hope everything works out for you, L and S. Looking at L's history, I am amazed she even ever let you talk to S! Boy, has she been burned. I am curious though about one thing....You obviously are bi and probably poly.....what made you choose to marry another woman, and want poly with a guy? I would have thought you would have married a male and incorporated another woman into your triad. Were you rescuing her from being burned by so many men? Just wondering.
Thanks Mark, so do i. Let me give a quick update, and then i'll address the quote above.

A mutual friend of the three of us spoke with S last night after I had spoken with him (friend) several times in the course of the day. He is really upset that S and I broke up, but is also in a (new, inspired by me, S, and L) poly relationship and wants to see this work out for all of us. He's also extremely non-threatening and probably the best person IMO to work as a go between at the beginning of this. The friend told S that he and i spoke, and S the told my friend that they needed to talk if he had talked to me. My friend told me this and then said he'd let me know what S said when he got back.

S said that he really misses both L and I and that he loves both of us. He also said that if we were to get back together, he would have to know that it was something L wanted, and not something that just I wanted. He told my friend that he doesn't want to be with me if i would walk out on my wife, and that if we were to work this out, lots of things need to change.

So i felt like my hands were completely tied, because L had said that she wanted nothing more to do with him, and I respect that.

But L read the transcript of the chat with my friend, and she saw how important S is to me (which she knew, but it was reiterated) as well as seeing some of the things that I had not told her yet (but was going to this weekend when we had our discussion about where to go from here, etc.). She was deeply, deeply hurt, but she says she forgives me and that she loves me and that we can move forward from this. She also said that she doesn't know how to re-establish a relationship with someone who has such little regard for her boundaries...

So that brings us to this afternoon. S called. He said that my friend had said that I wanted to speak to him, which was indeed the case, but I was going to wait until after the weekend so that i could have written some things down and gotten my head into a little bit better place about it. However, I told him that yes, i did indeed want to speak to him, but I wanted to do it face to face if possible. he was a little taken aback by this, asked how L and I were. I told him, honestly, better. Not a full 180 degree turnaround, but better. So he said that now would be a good time for him (his dog had minor surgery yesterday) and that he was at home. I asked him to give me a few minutes to think and I'd come over when I had done that.

I spoke with L, and I asked her what it would take for her to give this another chance, if she could. I told her that if she didn't have an answer yet, that i completely respected that and that was totally okay. She gave me a list of things, which i wrote down and took over there.

It was really weird to go to his place and act like we had never had a relationship. He didn't touch me. We sat across from each other on the couch with a full cushion between us, facing each other cross legged. I told him the things that L had said first... the only thing he asked me was "what are you doing to save your marriage?" and i told him, honestly, the things that I am doing. I said "i'm being completely, totally, 100% honest about everything. She knows everything that happened now, everything. i'm communicating and trying to meet her needs in this. I'm talking about what went wrong." Those are the things we've been doing -- it's only been 4 days afterall. I also told him that i was fully committed to making any changes that i need to make so that both of these relationships can work, and if saving my marriage means not seeing him, well, i don't like that, but I'll do it. He seemed surprised by that; it's not been my typical attitude throughout this, but I wanted him to see how serious i was about making things right, not just with L, but with him if he wanted it. I told him the changes we needed to make. I told him where we went wrong, and where L's boundaries had been overlooked and why that was important given the context of her history. He seemed to listen to all of this... And then he said "I can't see you until you fix your marriage, and I have to know that L is okay." He doesn't want to hear that L is okay from me, he HAS to hear it from her, and I think that's fine. If she can get to a point with me where she feels safe enough and comfortable enough to speak to him, then I have done my job.

I'm still very sad, because I don't know how long it will take for him to see that I'm committed to doing this, and I'm not sure that it will work, regardless. But I'm also EXTREMELY Cautiously optimistic, because I know that if i do the right thing and i prove to him that my marriage is the most important thing, and my wife is the most important person in my life, then he will come back to me. And if he doesn't come back to me, for whatever reason, then at least I've done my work and my share and tried as hard as i could to make this work.

Now, Mark, to address what you said WAY up there. *scrolls back up*

Yes, L has been burned many many times, and i should have respected that ENTIRELY instead of continually pushing for what S and I wanted rather than what she wanted. We've talked about that quite a bit over the last few days, and I think we're both in a place where we're willing to address those hurts and move forward.

Why did i marry her? Was I trying to save her? Actually..no. Long story short: i met her, 5 years ago last month, while i was in an extremely verbally and sexually abusive relationship with a man. He agreed to let me see her "as a toy," and I, of course, fell in love with her. She got me out of his life and gave me the opportunity to grow and explore all the sides of me that he broke. I'm completely comfortable and confident with her. And the reason that I married her is because i knew if i didn't, i would regret it for the rest of my life. I have never had a love with anyone like i have with her, and certainly never with a man. With one notable exception: S. I feel the same depth and warmth of emotion with S that i do with L. So...yes...it would have been perhaps "easier" and "more societally acceptable" to have married a man and been poly with a woman, but it didn't quite work out that way. And both L and S are completely unique for their respective genders, because although i've had relationships with women which were deep and fulfilling, they weren't as sexually charged as my relationship with L is, and although i've had wonderful sexual relationships with men, NONE has had the emotional impact as my relationship with S.

*whew*

Okay, those of you who read all of this get cookies!

*hugs*
Jamie
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  #40  
Old 06-13-2009, 10:08 AM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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Jamie, what a fantastic update and even more fantastic story. It sounds as though you are taking all the right steps now. You and S are correct, you must preserve your marriage first. Keep working on that. If everything else is meant to be, meaning you and S (and L)...it'll fall into place eventually. When everyone is ready, not just you..... or S. Good job so far, now keep going! It sounds like you and L (and S) might have a decent chance at a very good poly life. Keeping my fingers crossed for you all.
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