Lie by omission.

ValerieAOK

New member
So, I have had a profile up on okcupid for.. going on 3 years now.. Yes I live in a smaller town so I didn't expect much, but for 3 years I got not even one response, and maybe one visit a month to my profile. No one intiated contact and I got one response out of messaging every single gay woman on the site in my area....

After talking for a long time with my husband about this he agreed he was the most likely reason I didn't get any responses. He agreed with me in deleting the married status, and removing any and all references to my "family" or "we". So on okcupid, I look like a single female.

Has it worked? Yes so far, but it is too early to tell. I've gotten more profile views in the last 24 hours then I did in those three years. And I've gotten several responses to messages I sent out.

Of course I'm worried about lying to potential dates. Yes I would prefer it if I could attract someone despite being married, but ugh.. I just want to date girls, even casually, just to gain some confidence, experience and who knows, maybe I can charm someone to the point that being married doesn't matter to them.

So.. am I really wrong in your opinion in doing this? Is this morally wrong? My husband is fine with it. Is this really just a lie of omission? I do plan on telling anyone that either wants to go out for an actual date, or someone who happens to ask about past relationships.

Will this do more harm than good? Who knows, but right now I just want some dates! I just want to go out with a few girls. I won't bring my husband, and he doesn't really want a relationship with another woman, other then maybe becoming friends with them if I see them more then a handful of times. And I really really don't want to go the gay bar looking for someone. I'm just not a bar person, and I feel like I would be even more awkward trying to hit someone up at a bar then online.

If I knew of any other way of drumming up some interest or finding a date I would try it. Too bad I'm not closer to Minneapolis, I feel like the population there would make my chances higher for scoring a date or two.
 
That's a lot like asking this:

I lied to friend B, but friend A knows about it and doesn't care-is that wrong?

The answer is yes. It's wrong.

Lying to people is wrong.
Lying to people who you want to consider dating is also setting yourself up for a nightmare of drama.

If they aren't interested in dating you because you are married, they aren't a good match for dating you. Basic incompatibility.
 
If they aren't interested in dating you because you are married, they aren't a good match for dating you. Basic incompatibility.

Isn't that the paradox, or conundrum, or irony (one of those it must be):

A) I'm married, but I can date other people too! Yay for me! :D

B) I'm married, but nobody else wants to date me because of that. Woe is me! :(


:cool::rolleyes:

Be thankful for what you have instead of moaning about what you do not have.
 
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Since it pings your ethics you could choose to listen. I understand you feel frustrated. Could choose to stay true to your values anyway.

Could strive for accuracy and put more info IN maybe. State you are married. Exploring poly. And want nothing more at this time than some good dates with women to have that experience. A good Opening. Rather than having a full blown open relationship. A date with someone is not a full blown thing. You want some dates. Maybe there are others who want same?

Your want to polyship is à want not a need. I mean that kindly but firmly. It comes with the territory. You can Open. That is great to share with DH... that loving trust. Does not mean anyone will automatically Enter into relationship with you guys though.

Could choose to cultivate patience. Could choose to not start lying by omission in your profile. Seems a waste of energy to not put it on there, go on a date, then have a hooha because that could have been put out there before the date.

GG
 
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Okay, so I must admit. I'm learning from the internet world, that the best way to get yourself some attention is to stir up a little sh*t. So, where is my sh*t stir stick?

I know it's "wrong" to lie to someone. I guess I'm not as clear in words as I am in my own head. Even though it's wrong, it's not really hurting anyone. It's like pot smoking in my opinion. It might not be "right" in the eyes of the law, but it's not really hurting anyone is it? Well other then the people who get busted for it. I ascribe by the philosophy of anarchy. If you haven't checked out Stefan Molynuex he explains anarchy and the non-aggression axiom much better then I.

My husband lied to me when I met him. He told me he was straight, but right before we got married he confessed that he is actually bi, and had actually been with a few men in the past. It hurt, I was mad, I was confused, but I still love him in the end. I was merely reacting to a stigma that society shoved down my brain hole. I over came that, and I have faith that most humans can do the same.
 
What shit? :confused:

So.. am I really wrong in your opinion in doing this? Is this morally wrong?

You ask for feedback on that and people answer.

I apologize if what I write is hard to read/hear and hurt you somehow. My intent is not to hurt you. I am not judging you. You will choose what you choose. You are the boss of you. I'm not going to tell you what you should and should not do. That's up to you. My intent is to try to point out other ways to go to consider if that could serve you just as good. *shrug*

It might not be "right" in the eyes of the law, but it's not really hurting anyone is it?

That seems to imply that in your heart of hearts you know it is not ok with YOU.

YOU are someone, right? So far it's caused you this much brain space and heart space to contemplate doing. Are you experiencing peace of mind? You do not seem to be. That's a kind of hurt. Not a HUGE hurt like getting run over the bus would feel like but a ping in the heart there somewhere.

Again I see that you are frustrated you have not gotten more nibbles to your profile. It is disappointing. But it is what it is. I am sorry you feel frustrated. :(

  • If you are willing to ignore your ping as the price of admission, then go ahead. It's your profile -- take stuff out. See if it serves you better than the current profile. Deal with the price of admission -- not having full peace of mind for a time because you got a ping. Deal with the dating potentials reactions when you do disclose.
  • If you are unsure of your willingness to make changes like that by leaving stuff out... I'm just trying to point out OTHER things you could do to make changes in your profile to put more info IN to see if that will serve you better than the current profile AND let's you have peace of mind ping-free while making the changes too.

Maybe there's other suggestions for profile management that other people could think of. Who knows?

In the end, you have to determine what is best for you and your profile and balance it against your wants, needs, limits and best healths. You determine what you feel like dealing with/in.

You are in a time of discernment. Spend the time to sort yourself out -- is all I'm saying. I just do not recommend not being true to yourself. That feels gross to me if/when I go there so I try not to go there to begin with.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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On line dating is hard on people and from what I can tell its harder on people looking for women.
I have to admit, its like window shopping with the items only partially in view. That makes it hard to want whats being offered.

Is there a larger city nearby? One with a more diverse gay community with hangouts and events? Maybe instead you can take overnight visits to that city and go on the hunt. People respond better to each other when they interact in person. A picture and circumstance on a screen is easily dismissed. A person you find hot right in front of you will have you considering options you might otherwise nix. Worst case you make some new friends you can meet other people through.
 
I know it's "wrong" to lie to someone. I guess I'm not as clear in words as I am in my own head. Even though it's wrong, it's not really hurting anyone.

My husband lied to me when I met him. He told me he was straight, but right before we got married he confessed that he is actually bi, and had actually been with a few men in the past. It hurt, I was mad, I was confused, but I still love him in the end. I was merely reacting to a stigma that society shoved down my brain hole. I over came that, and I have faith that most humans can do the same.

You contradict yourself.
But anyway. If you truly believe that the hurt that your lie will cause someone else is something they will ' get over' , then I don't really see what kind of advice your looking for?

Personally, I agree with GalaGirl - why waste the energy on a date that is based on lies and will only blow up on you later? Unless you are actively looking for drama, of course, which I know some people are.

I went on a couple of dates with men who were very vague about their circumstances at home. This was in the beginning of my dating as a married woman, and I can say that I was quite desperate for the dates, for the attention. I thought I had to go on this date because who else would date me?
And I chose to ignore the fact that I felt in my gut that the guy was lying (or even, I continued to see him after I found out he was married and cheating).

The sex I had with one of those guys, in the sexless marriage, with the wife who 'did not understand him'? When I think of it now I still cringe and feel horrible about it. But I did it, I made that mistake, and the only good thing that came out of it is that I learned from it and will not do it again. Because I felt it wasn't worth it, at all.
 
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When the drama ensues, you will be back posting that you can't understand why some mono person you have fallen for is pissed off and angry that you lied to them or that someone fell for you and can't accept poly and is pissed off you used them, lied to them, took advantage etc.
At that point, I imagine you will begin to realize that yes in fact it is hurtig someone. Several someone's in fact.
 
I lied to get a date once. It turned out, in my small city, that several people I know know her and for years I have felt ashamed every time I see her or hear about her. She likely would never of dated me if she had known and I feel disrespectful now as she is a lovely person looking for something real with someone else. I feel like I fucked with her trust of the world and of me. I knew as soon as we started talking on our date that because of her questions one lie would lead to others and I would eventually have to make a fool of myself and let her know my circumstance. It felt horrible and I regret the whole thing to this day. Now I have a profile that spells it a out for anyone who reads it. I would rather not know who I missed and know who really thinks I will fit their life.
 
Actually, I think your issue is just an OK Cupid issue, not a big moral issue.

When you list your status as "Married" on OKC, you don't come up in people's searches unless they have expressly selected "Married" as one of the options for what/who they are looking for. You have the choice of being "Married," "Available," "Single," etc.

Choosing "Available," rather than "Single," might widen your options without causing outright lies.

Or, you could choose "Single" as your status to increase your "searchability" on the site, while also writing in your profile that you are married to a man but are looking to date women.

In general, I think it's okay to omit information on an Internet profile (for privacy reasons at the very least), but there are many opportunities to be truthful early on, when messaging someone, on a first date, on a second, etc.

As a less-morally-charged example, when I was using OKC last year, I listed myself as living in a big city an hour away from where I actually live. I did that so I could meet men in said city, because there were much fewer options in my home area. But I always came clean about my actual area of residence when chatting with someone, so they would know about the logistical difficulties.

And now I've got a great man who lives an hour and a half away from me :)
 
When I read the OP my initial response was - "Wow, SO not worth the drama/hurt feelings that are going to ensue." I was thinking along the lines that if I ever actually met up with someone from OKC and they had misrepresented a significant fact that would have been a deal-breaker for me, I would be beyond pissed off. If I found out right away upon messaging with them - I wouldn't be as pissed off but I would definitely rule them out as someone who was flagrantly untrustworthy. (but that is me)

As an example and, speaking for myself, the thing that would bother me that I could see happening is that I would meet up with a "married/poly" woman that had advertised that SHE was looking for a woman to see for HERSELF only and then finding out that she is actually looking for a woman for HER+HER HUSBAND (I don't have an objection to leaving that possibility open but am feeling boy-saturated girl-deficient and don't want to have that expectation hanging over our interactions.)

So, I could see someone who had a "looking for a female for me+him" profile that wasn't getting any action, make the decision that it was the "couple dating" thing that was the issue and change their profile to make it look like it was just wife/girlfriend who was looking for a new partner...thinking that, of course, when the "new third" actually MET said husband (who is a, of course, handsome/awesome/wonderful guy and any woman would, of course, want to be with him TOO) then the scales would miraculously fall from their eyes and the three of them would live happily ever after in "poly-fi Unicorn-having" bliss. (At some point, I will remove my tongue from cheek...this is not that point :D.)

(The other fear would be cheaters that are advertising as poly - NOT going to facilitate THAT.)

...

Then I read MeeraReed's post and thought about it a little more.

Actually, I think your issue is just an OK Cupid issue, not a big moral issue.

Possibly a mix - depending on how it is presented. Your OKC profile can only ever show a little tiny slice of who you are as a person - it's meant to be the "hook" to draw people into a conversation, and most people will recognize that it is, by no means, the whole picture. But outright misrepresentation?

When you list your status as "Married" on OKC, you don't come up in people's searches unless they have expressly selected "Married" as one of the options for what/who they are looking for. You have the choice of being "Married," "Available," "Single," etc.

Choosing "Available," rather than "Single," might widen your options without causing outright lies.

Or, you could choose "Single" as your status to increase your "searchability" on the site, while also writing in your profile that you are married to a man but are looking to date women.

I may be wrong, but I actually don't think that you can choose "available" as an option. I think "available" shows up only when you choose "married/seeing someone" AND choose "dating" under the "What I'm looking for" option.

I think that choosing "Single" so that more people have the change to see your profile and then explaining immediately in your profile WHY you have it set that way would be the most honest way to game the software. (It would also let you know if someone had actually READ your profile depending on whether they were shocked when you brought it up in messaging.)

In general, I think it's okay to omit information on an Internet profile (for privacy reasons at the very least), but there are many opportunities to be truthful early on, when messaging someone, on a first date, on a second, etc.

OK, I can see that and agree. But the bigger, more controversial, more of a deal-breaker the info could be the more of a problem it will be when the info is revealed. For me, the married/poly info is right up at the top of the list (messaging, not physically meeting type material, at the very least). If someone is looking for their "one-and-only-exclusive-mate-for-life" then it is a No-Go from the start...why cause someone (even a stranger on the internet) pain and disappointment?

As a less-morally-charged example, when I was using OKC last year, I listed myself as living in a big city an hour away from where I actually live. I did that so I could meet men in said city, because there were much fewer options in my home area. But I always came clean about my actual area of residence when chatting with someone, so they would know about the logistical difficulties.

Ha-Ha. Point taken. You caught me out. For privacy reasons I have myself living in a different small town than the small town that I actual live in (actually "outside of"). It is a similar distance from our "big city" and in a similar direction - and is actually closer to where I work. Because I live in the middle of nowhere, I assumed that I would be the one driving/ dealing with the logistical difficulties - so I probably wouldn't disclose this until I had actually determined that they weren't crazy stalker-type people.

So we may all have our own limit when it comes to the degree of "truthiness" we are willing to disclose...

JaneQ
 
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What shit? :confused:

I apologize if what I write is hard to read/hear and hurt you somehow. My intent is not to hurt you. I am not judging you. You will choose what you choose. You are the boss of you. I'm not going to tell you what you should and should not do. That's up to you. My intent is to try to point out other ways to go to consider if that could serve you just as good. *shrug*

I don't know how to do the quote thing right so I hope this works. I wanted to address this first. I'm not hurt by any of the responses. I'm actually very happy to get a conversation going. The shit stirring is the original post. I know it's boarder line controversial and would get more hits. So, your giving me exactly what I want, and thank you!


Now I also want to address the contradicting myself. Yes I know it seems like a contradiction, I was hurt by a lie about my husband, but more because he waited to tell me for years, and I wasn't hurt until he told me. I know this tactic of being "single" online will inflict some hurt if someone actually meets me, and I reveal the truth. But the profile its self is not hurting anyone right?

Also as an update, my profile is getting tons of traffic now. Lots of responses, even rejection responses which I never got before either, just dead silence. But still no dates, but it's only been days.

Again thank you to anyone leaving an opinion on this. Does anyone have a better site then okcupid? Or other meet ups for potential mates? I'm 3 hours from Minneapolis, I know there is a MN poly group but I don't want to pay the $15 every year for forum access. Although advertising that I'm closer to there might get me more hits, but it is a stretch for me to get to Minneapolis for dates.
 
. Even though it's wrong, it's not really hurting anyone. It's like pot smoking in my opinion. It might not be "right" in the eyes of the law, but it's not really hurting anyone is it?

Lying hurts the person being lied to.

I know this tactic of being "single" online will inflict some hurt if someone actually meets me, and I reveal the truth. But the profile its self is not hurting anyone right?

Well of course the profile's mere existence isn't causing any actual harm. If it just sat there and nobody reacted to it, ever, no harm done. But isn't the whole point of the profile for someone to actually meet you? Then they meet you and find out you're not single, and now there's a problem.


I was merely reacting to a stigma that society shoved down my brain hole. I over came that, and I have faith that most humans can do the same.

But putting this quote together with other things you've said, are you saying that if people don't want to date you because you're married it's just because of society 'shoving' ideas into their brain? And a smarter, better person will overcome that?

Please give people credit that maybe they really are capable of thinking for themselves and making intelligent decisions. There are perfectly valid and even good reasons for not wanting to date a married person. It's not merely a 'stigma.' There are people willing to date a married person for various reasons. Why not be patient while you look for such a person, and refrain from finding fault with those who want a different sort of relationship than you do? This is their right, and a valid desire, to want to date someone who's single and available for marriage someday.

You also used the words "I got over it" elsewhere. I wouldn't want to date anyone who took the attitude that they can lie to me because I'll 'get over it.' That they can lie to me to get what they want. I would feel that they'd really reduced me to a new toy that they felt they had every right to possess, by any means, simply because they wanted it/me, with no regard to the fact that I have wants and needs of my own. :(
 
I really like challenging peoples perspectives with my own, because I feel like their own perspectives be little my own. I can also appreciate others challenging my perspective, it's been one of the best ways of changing my view on the world. So thank you for keeping me thinking about this. While my choices still might not make you happy, I'm glad we have the chance to speak our minds.

I truly believe a lot of societal life based on lies of omission to make things comfortable for people to get through the day. My self included.

And Like I said, I want things to be casual. This to me means fun, perhaps toy like, you are correct in calling it that. But I still have my favorite toy from when I was a child, I've never tried to change it, and I appreciate it for what it is, care for it and in the case of a human "toy" if they chose not to participate then they are free to do so.

When I met my husband I told him flat out, I didn't think we would get serious. I wanted something, casual, fun, maybe sexual. I knew I would be moving soon after meeting him and I didn't think we would have time really to get attached. And I wouldn't want my life's ambitions to take him away from his life's ambitions. It turned out our ambitions lined up and he traveled with me across the country to live where we currently live. More then 3,000 miles.

So.. I know the direction my life is heading. Out of the most respect I can have for someone else (in my opinion) I don't want to just assume people will want to travel with me (metaphorically). I truly just want to date some girls, learn how to wine and dine them, romance them, have fun new experiences. As if I'm a single female.

Let me ask this in a different way.. what does it really mean to be single? How am I really any different? I feel like my husband is just like a best friend. Best friends don't get in the way of dating do they? My best friend in high school did not. Sure I'm committed to staying with him, but does that mean I have to devote all my time to him? Is that maybe how being single status is so different? I won't have time for the new person?
 
Because if you are willing to lie to any potential partner about your current relationship status what else are you willing to lie about in regards to current or potential partners?
 
I really like challenging peoples perspectives with my own,
So what perspective are you challenging in this thread? The perspective that being honest with other people is good, wise, kind, and/or respectful? The perspective that truthfulness from the start is a better foundation for relationships than lies? If so, go ahead and back that up.


I truly believe a lot of societal life based on lies of omission to make things comfortable for people to get through the day. My self included.
If 'lies by omission' include 'omitting' to tell someone you think they're fat or ugly...yes, we all do that. It's called common courtesy. It's called kindness. We are not obligated to voice every thought that flits through our minds. But there is a moral obligation to be upfront about important facts that affect other people. Such as that we're married, when we want to date.

This to me means fun, perhaps toy like, you are correct in calling it that. But I still have my favorite toy from when I was a child, I've never tried to change it, and I appreciate it for what it is, care for it and in the case of a human "toy" if they chose not to participate then they are free to do so.
Most people don't want to be someone else's toy to be cared for. And how are they free to make an educated choice when you withhold pertinent facts?

I truly just want to date some girls, learn how to wine and dine them, romance them, have fun new experiences.
Please make sure in your dating profile that you're upfront you want to use them as a learning tool, like a chalkboard or an old junker car, while you hone your skills. :confused:


As if I'm a single female.
But you're not.

I'd sometimes like to behave as if I'm child-free. But I'm not. I'd like to live in a penthouse in NYC as if I'm a billionaire. But I'm not.

Let me ask this in a different way.. what does it really mean to be single? How am I really any different? I feel like my husband is just like a best friend. Best friends don't get in the way of dating do they? My best friend in high school did not. Sure I'm committed to staying with him, but does that mean I have to devote all my time to him? Is that maybe how being single status is so different? I won't have time for the new person?

You may not see it as any different. You may even argue circles around someone by continually saying, but why? but why? but why? That doesn't change the fact that another person may see it as different, and may not want to date a married woman, and ought to be given the full information necessary to make that choice. None of your arguments are going to change the very real fact that many people, probably most, are not going to appreciate getting involved with someone and only later finding out she's married.

You know, you started this thread by saying you can't get what you want by being honest on your profile. So you want to be a little less honest so you can have what you want. Getting what we want is not really the hallmark of a mature life, well-lived. It's a child's mode of thinking. Living with integrity and honesty, respecting others, accepting that we don't get everything we want in this life...these are the signs of maturity and adulthood.

As someone else said, nobody here can make you do or say anything on your profile. It's yours. Do as you will. Just don't be surprised when people are not terribly happy with you on finding out the full truth.
 
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