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  #11  
Old 02-22-2013, 09:28 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
I cannot stand even the idea of being controlled or told what to do........................... Bf is ok w me being w other women but not men..................gf and I play w other women sometimes but she's not ok w me being w anyone alone.
Is it me or does this all seem a bit contradictory? The OP has already allowed herself to be somewhat controlled by the people in her relationship so maybe they feel they have the right to lay down the law?
I think it would help if they all sat down and re-worked all these expectations.
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:00 PM
niceinjeans niceinjeans is offline
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Originally Posted by Natja View Post
Is it me or does this all seem a bit contradictory? The OP has already allowed herself to be somewhat controlled by the people in her relationship so maybe they feel they have the right to lay down the law?
I think it would help if they all sat down and re-worked all these expectations.
Well, yes and no. You and I may see it as contradictory that she allows her bf to limit her sexual expressions to just women; however, this model may be exactly what she desires. I know other poly women that are solely committed to their male partner but still desire to be with a woman. So all of her needs may be met by a vee with a man and a woman.

I think all three parties are absolutely within their individual rights to express what they need and desire in a relationship. Weaving those needs and desires together is what forms the whole relationship model to begin with. When those needs and desires change, the relationship model may not longer satiate one or more parties. That's when new needs/desires need to be communicated, and the relationship model may need to be re-evaluated.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

NIJ

Last edited by niceinjeans; 02-22-2013 at 03:02 PM. Reason: typo
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2013, 03:20 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by niceinjeans View Post
.
.. You and I may see it as contradictory that she allows her bf to limit her sexual expressions to just women; however, this model may be exactly what she desires. I know other poly women that are solely committed to their male partner but still desire to be with a woman. So all of her needs may be met by a vee with a man and a woman.
For 19 years I was fine with my husband's preference for "no boys" (with regards to sex - he had no issues with my flirting/friending/chatting up/hanging out with all of my guy friends) - it was not an issue - my focus was mainly on girls anyway, so it never came up for re-negotiation because I never actually felt all that limited in the first place. Then Dude came along...


******

With regard to the OP:

I would be very, very upset if Dude, my boyfriend, came out with a request that I not have sex with MrS, my husband (a rare enough occurrence as it is!). I would seriously question whether we were anywhere on the same PAGE when it came to the relationship I thought we were having. The MOST I could see would be a very specific request for time for just the two of us: "I really need to feel connected with you right now - could I ask you for a whole day for just the two of us? This Saturday, perhaps?"

This:
Quote:
"I was happier when you said you and him weren't having a sexual relationship bc I felt if I was good and gave you everything you need you'd realize you don't need that from him anymore and it can be just between you and me."
- would have me scrambling to re-assess the entire situation!

When Dude and I got together, one thing that I was VERY clear about was that he was getting involved with a married woman and that my relationship with my husband was a given part of that. Early on he would occasionally make some joke about "having you all to myself" - and I let him know that even teasing about that was NOT something that I was comfortable with.

i.e. "When you say things like that it makes me seriously question whether we can be together...it makes we want to pull away and not invest in OUR relationship. So you need to think about the effect that this could have. If you really feel this way, then we need to stop now. If you DON'T really feel this way - then you need to stop teasing about it. I am going to be with MrS, too. And this relationship that we are building has to take that into account."

On the other side, when we were figuring out how this could possibly work. MrS and I had a long discussion. I don't let myself have "feelings" for someone easily and if we were going to really do this, I needed to know that I was entering into this second relationship freely and without restriction - that the rug wasn't going to be pulled out from under me when the going got tough. MrS had actually given this a LOT of thought before he approached me with his change of heart with regards to the "no boys" clause. He, I think even before Dude and I, realized that once we turned that page there was no going back. For us, at least, there was no option to ask someone to "turn off" a relationship once it was established - that each relationship at that point would be "real". There is no veto "after the fact."

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (22+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 02-28-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:00 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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"I was happier when you said you and him weren't having a sexual relationship bc I felt if I was good and gave you everything you need you'd realize you don't need that from him anymore and it can be just between you and me."
I guess I just don't feel threatened by announcements of feelings? Feelings are not logical. I am willing to accept that. Initially I didn't even pick up on that quote because it read like "weather reporting only" to me.

My reaction to that quote when rereading it now that others resonate with it remains to ask the partner this --
"AND? What is your need, your request of me? Are you feeling insecure and in need of some reassure from me? No? No request? Just reporting the weather?

Ok. Heard ya. If you have a future need request? Please just ask up front. Otherwise... thanks. I am now aware of your internal climate."
And to myself I add

"Alright. Not my problem at this time. I'm not gonna worry about it."


Is this coming up a lot? Weather reporting at OP expecting mind readering? OP could ask for the clarify.

Everyone could hold their own emotional baggage. A partner could choose to help one unpack and sort if requested to help and willing to help... but a partner cannot do it FOR one.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-28-2013 at 04:58 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:16 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I guess I just don't feel threatened by announcements of feelings? Feelings are not logical. I am willing to accept that.
And I guess (know) that I do (feel threatened that is).

Feelings are scary to me. I don't indulge them easily. I recognize and accept them as being illogical - which doesn't sit well with me. Therefore, to me, the only reason to bring them up is if you want/expect something to change as a result of your having them - because that is the ONLY time that I am going to bring them up.

My expressions of (negative) feelings are generally tied to behaviors that trigger them and a request for a change to minimize that discomfort in the future. And I have usually analyzed them to DEATH before I am willing to have that conversation.

"In this situation the other day, you said/did this. I felt this way. I've thought about it, and I think the reason I felt this way was because I was scared that it meant thus-and-so. I realize now, after thinking about it, that x doesn't necessarily mean y - so my feeling in that case was unwarranted. In the future, if you said x in this way, it might remind me that it means z and NOT y to you - but, at any rate, I'll try not not to read so much into it in the future or ask you for clarification. Sorry I was irritable the other day, thanks for being patient with me."

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (22+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 02-28-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:21 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Therefore, to me, the only reason to bring them up is if you want/expect something to change as a result of your having them - because that is the ONLY time that I am going to bring them up.
I can see that. And I bring up my own needs as requests too when I'm on the ASKING end.

But for me? It's better for my OWN mental health on the RECEIVING end to let the other guy hold their own emotional baggage and not assume or take on THEIR baggage for myself unbidden or unwilling. If they want meet to meet a need? If they want me to serve out some expectation? Speak up! Make a bid. Ask for my willing.

So I actually ASK --

"Are you bringing this up because you want me to be willing to meet a need of yours? Cuz basically I'm gonna ignore you until you actually state you want something from me up front. And even then I may not be willing to meet your need cuz I got my own needs to meet FIRST. Tough nails!"
Of course I will package that up in nicer words actually spoken out loud to my person. Even in writing it on the forum I'm filter out my cussing because who needs to be relaxing at home online reading venom? But basically that's MY internal climate: NO. I am not put on this freakin' Earth to be at EVERYONE'S freakin' beck and call to tote baggage about. Nope. Not gonna. Refuse.

I do not have to take on board their unspoken expectation. What for? More work for me? Spread my self thin emotionally? Nope. I normally try to be aware of my filter before I open my mouth to talk but honestly? I won't deal in people who try to shoosh baggage on me. So I am just fine letting it LAY THERE on the floor. UN-fucking-picked up. Tada! THE HORROR!


Oh, lookie that. Some baggage. Thanks. I noticed it laying there. Yep. My eyes and ears are functional. I am aware. Thanks for pointing it out there on the rug. AND?
Gives them a chance to explain and I can determine if this baggage has FRESH inside it or not. I'm not going to leap to conclusions about what's in the bag. But neither am I just gonna pick it up and adopt it. What if there is skunk in there? Show me your baggage first.

I've been called all sorts of names by people who want me to carry baggage unwilling and unbidden. That's called being FRESH and entitled if this is their intent. I give them the benefit of the doubt and call them to account for themselves -- "IS this the intent? DO you want something from me? WHAT would you like to request of me?" because some people don't want to be fresh but have a sincere hard time talking about feelings and need a bit of prompting to disclose. MAybe there is no skunk in the baggage. But they are shy about showing their panties.

I like to assume positive intent. Not so much for them, though they benefit. FOR ME and my spiritual health. I am responsible for my own healths (mental, emotional, physical, spiritual healths.) I rather cultivate a spirit of generosity than cultivate a spirit of suspicion for myself.

I once asked my mother if she realllly thought my loopy dad was the first man ever to call me a "bitch" because nope. I didn't feel like meeting needs for a FRESH behaving person. And nope. I did not feel like doing his articulation work for him either. He has to exercise his brain. And did she think I reallllly cared or have a prob wearing the bitch label?

Life is long. Unclaimed baggage can say at the train station. I ain't pickin' it up. Not for my loopy dad, and not for anyone else either.

Mom tells me that Dad says I'm "bossy and mean" behind my back to her. To ME? He does what I want -- behaves himself appropriately around me if he wants something from me and ASKS me nicely (as best he can). If an Alzheimer dude can manage to do it when called to account for himself, so can mentally unimpaired people.

So my take is gonna be -- "Oh? You have a need? Please request it nicely. Then I will consider meeting your need. Otherwise, thanks for sharing." Lather, rinse, repeat. I do that to my kid too. Nope. Not moving a muscle til I hear it packaged up properly and not all FRESH. And I STILL might not agree to sign up for that job.

It serves me well. I lead a very peaceful inner life even amid eldercare wacko and kiddie capers. I'm certainly not up for poly shenanigans. No shenanigans of any flavor!

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-28-2013 at 05:30 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:44 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
But for me? It's better for my OWN mental health to let the other guy hold their own emotional baggage and not assume or take on THEIR baggage for myself unbidden or unwilling.

... but honestly? I won't deal in people who try to shoosh baggage on me. So... I just am fine letting it ... LAY THERE on the floor. Oh, lookie that. Some baggage. Thanks. I noticed it laying there.

Yep. My eyes and ears are functional. I am aware. Thanks for pointing it out there on the rug.
Ah, so actually not so different...(I love these conversations with you, by the way). In my "not-personal-relationship" life (work/friends/bio-family) - I can actually see that this what I do. I don't feel responsible for other people's emotional baggage - even though they vomit it up on me all day long. I glance over it, see what it consists of and then say - "OK, I hope you feel better now that you puked all that up out of your system. Now, is there anything I can do to help you, specifically, today?" I can help them evaluate their baggage, help them sort through the vomitous mass - but at the end of the day it is still their baggage, NOT mine.

In my "personal/romantic" life, however - I really prefer for my partners to pre-sort their baggage, because at least some of that baggage may relate to me personally (things I said or did, expectations they have, needs/wants they need to express) - my default setting seems to be that if a partner is coming to me with something it is because it DOES involve me (otherwise they would have turned to each other/other friends - because they know I am tired of looking at baggage all day long), and if that is the case then I want a clear request as to what is expected of me - and if I don't hear that, then I am likely to feel agitated and insecure.

(This, I think, also relates to the concept of teaching people how to be in relationships with us.)

JaneQ
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (22+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2013, 05:10 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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In my "personal/romantic" life, however - I really prefer for my partners to pre-sort their baggage, because at least some of that baggage may relate to me personally
I prefer that too.

But sometimes my partner needs aid to do that very sorting. I don't always GET my preference in the covenent of romantic relationship. Who else does partner turn to first if not me? Did I not enter this relationship under the agreement of helping to tend their healths? Do I not care about my partner's inner life? I do. So I have to tend and not shirk my duty there to my partner or the relationship. But I still want to hear the request up front.

"I have a problem. I need help sorting myself out. Would you be willing to listen and help me sort even if the problem concerns my relationship to you? Can we Discern Together in a healthy way at this time?"


Then I can assess my willing, the timing, balance against their need, etc. I have to be emotionally available to a reasonable degree. And suck it up (when in the land of reasonable) and not alienate my own partner with emotional distancing or failing to do my partner job. It's a balancing act.

I cannot let my own feelings WHOOSH! up and blind me to my partner's need forever just because *I* feel crazy and do not like feeling that. Just because I dowanna take on suckage. I'm not a fair weather partner. I have to deal with foul weather sometimes in partnership.

I could say

"I feel crazy right now. I am willing to be emotionally present for you, yes. But at THIS time so I have time to clear my own whooshy first so I can be fit for the job. Is that fair? How's next Tuesday work?" to negotiate the time. And sometimes Life arranges it so that there IS no best time later. Not only is it IMPORTANT, but it is URGENT TIME RIGHT NOW.

So fine, have to suck it up "come as you are" then. No time to get all dressed up better to face the hurricane. At least you face it together then. My partner gets that perk from me -- because I love them and it is because that's part of the package deal I have with them.

But even a partner -- I will hold accountable to the personal standard agreement we share. Weather out the Life Whatever Hurricane Storm together, alright. But NO treating me with shenanigans while we're hunkering there together. That's not part of the deal here.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-28-2013 at 05:32 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:32 AM
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Natja Natja is offline
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Being a hormone monster of late I really have been talking of my feelings a lot more but I certainly have made a distinction between talking about my feelings as in 'I am feeling lonely' which is true, but I don't necessarily expect anyone to necessarily feel threatened by that.
But when I say 'I am feeling lonely and I need more input from you on a daily basis because I am feeling neglected' it is at that point where I am stating my needs.

It is at this point that I expect changes made.
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