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  #21  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:32 AM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Of course not. Why would there be anything wrong with it? What misunderstandings could come out of my saying I want sex? I would never have thought there is something wrong with that.
Well, I know there are folks who would immediately jump at the chance to "call you out for acephobia" and pull off their usual antics.

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
However, I must correct you - I didn't make a decision. I just know that's what I've always wanted. I view sex as a form of communication and I want to be able to express myself sexually. I didn't sit around and think about it, and decide that "no sex is a deal-breaker." No sex doesn't work for me in a love relationship, not only because I have a high libido, but because I honor my need for that kind of connection. I can have casual sex with people I am not in love with but I can't be happy without sex in a relationship with people I do love as more than friends. It would just make me too sad not to be able to completely express who I am with them. My ex and I drifted apart because we were no longer having sex and I became extremely depressed to be laying next to him at night and without being physically intimate.
That still is a decision... you still always have the option to try it anyway, but you know yourself well enough to be able to tell that it has no chance to work happily without going against your nature. If you wanted to pay the price (depression), you could go celibate today - you're simply aware of the fact that it would not in any way be reasonable for you to do so.

I know I've never wanted sex, but that doesn't make it any less of a decision against sexual relationship for me. (Especially when I'm with a partner who certainly wouldn't mind a romp in the sheets with me. I know that it's something R. consciously gave up in regards to our ship - it wasn't a big deal for her to give up, but a deal it was.) It's just a very, very easy decision to make, for me... much as the decision not to be celibate remains very, very easy for you. And that's cool.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by InsaneMystic View Post
Well, I know there are folks who would immediately jump at the chance to "call you out for acephobia" and pull off their usual antics.
A preference is not a phobia. I can befriend an asexual, eat dinner with an asexual, sit next to one on a bus, and so on, without freaking out. I am not prejudiced against asexuals. I just would not be in a romantic relationship with one because for me that would have to include sex, while for him it would not. Therefore, we would not be compatible. It isn't rocket science to figure that out.

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That still is a decision...
No, it is not. A decision kills off all other possibilities. The root of the word "decide" is the same as homicide, suicide, patricide, etc. I prefer to make choices over decisions. With choices there are always other options.

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you still always have the option to try it anyway, but you know yourself well enough to be able to tell that it has no chance to work happily without going against your nature.
I've experienced a long-term loving relationship without sex and it was very limiting for me. As I said, it is about self-expression for me. I would feel like an artist prevented from being able to paint or sculpt. Of course I know I won't die without sex. I can always have sex with myself or have a casual hook-up if I need it that badly. If I am intimately involved with someone whom I love and care about and want to get close to, I need to fully connection all levels of expression and communication. It isn't really a decision that I will do this or do that and leave other options behind; it is a knowing what I need to be myself and to be happy, and a compatibility issue (as I stated above). People are compatible or not - there aren't really any earth-shattering decisions or choices to make if there is no compatibility.
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-15-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2013, 12:00 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
A preference is not a phobia. I can befriend an asexual, eat dinner with an asexual, sit next to one on a bus, and so on, without freaking out. I am not prejudiced against asexuals. I just would not be in a romantic relationship with one because for me that would have to include sex, while for him it would not. Therefore, we would not be compatible. It isn't rocket science to figure that out.
100% agreed. That's basically what my first response to you was about.

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
No, it is not. A decision kills off all other possibilities. The root of the word "decide" is the same as homicide, suicide, patricide, etc. I prefer to make choices over decisions. With choices there are always other options.
So, you do still keep your option open to the possibility of having a sexless partnership? I really can't follow your logic here...

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I've experienced a long-term loving relationship without sex and it was very limiting for me. As I said, it is about self-expression for me. I would feel like an artist prevented from being able to paint or sculpt. Of course I know I won't die without sex. I can always have sex with myself or have a casual hook-up if I need it that badly. If I am intimately involved with someone whom I love and care about and want to get close to, I need to fully connection all levels of expression and communication. It isn't really a decision that I will do this or do that and leave other options behind; it is a knowing what I need to be myself and to be happy.
You can choose to live a life that makes you unhappy, though. (It just wouldn't make sense, and I'm glad that you've chosen not to limit yourself that way. )


ETA in response to your ETA:
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
[...] and a compatibility issue (as I stated above). People are compatible or not - there aren't really any earth-shattering decisions or choices to make if there is no compatibility.
What if someone who isn't compatible to you wants to start something with you? What would you call it when you turn them down? Choice, decision, or what else? (I'm pretty fine with "decision" in that case, it's nice and final. )

Last edited by InsaneMystic; 02-15-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2013, 01:18 PM
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100% agreed. That's basically what my first response to you was about.
I know.


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Originally Posted by InsaneMystic View Post
So, you do still keep your option open to the possibility of having a sexless partnership? I really can't follow your logic here...
I am saying that I always strive to make choices rather than decisions. In this case, I choose to honor who I am by seeking relationships that allow me to fully express myself. That full expression includes sexual intimacy. I choose to seek out lovers who click with me that way. I know, from experience, that a relationship could wind up continuing without sex. My choice does not eliminate that possibility. If that is what happens, I would deal with it accordingly, whether it is to find a remedy to make the relationship work, or to end it altogether. But, basically, I always want to make choices that align with who I am. To choose is to say "yes" to something or someone.

A decision is about what you will say "no" to. To decide is to eliminate, and kill off all other possibilities. All I am saying here is that I am not "deciding" that "no sex is a deal-breaker." I am choosing to fully express myself in relationships. There is a difference.

It is the same as being child-free by choice rather than "childless." I choose to be free of the responsibilities and burdens of childbirth and child-rearing. I do not view myself as childless, as if I made a decision and because of it, something is missing. I chose freedom.

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ETA in response to your ETA:
I did not post an ETA. I understand that to mean "Estimated Time of Arrival."

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Originally Posted by InsaneMystic View Post
What if someone who isn't compatible to you wants to start something with you? What would you call it when you turn them down? Choice, decision, or what else? (I'm pretty fine with "decision" in that case, it's nice and final. )
Saying "no" to someone is simply an action that supports my choice. I am also not saying that I never make decisions; sometimes it is perfectly appropriate to eliminate and leave oneself with no other options. But usually when I stew about something and then decide what to do about it, it doesn't go as well as I'd hoped. In the overall picture of my life and how I want it to go, I prefer to see myself as making choices that are good for me.
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2013, 01:35 PM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Thanks for the explanation, I understand your p.o.v. better now.

(Oh, and ETA = edit(ed) to add.)
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:02 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I want to express myself physically with people I am romantically involved with.
This resonates so much with me. I think that for me, a relationship isn't romantic unless there is a sexual element to it. Being able to get sex outside of the relationship just doesn't do it for me - I want to be experiencing that with romantic partners.

I'm totally fine with people not wanting to be sexual with me. I have several important, emotionally intimate, worthwhile relationships that are not and will never be sexual. I just wouldn't call those people partners. They are friends or family.

I wonder often if there is just such a focus on romance that sometimes it just doesn't feel okay not to have it in our lives?

My SO sent this around a group of our friends yesterday and I think there is a lot in it that is interesting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...st-way-to-live

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  #27  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:28 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Default I LOVE celibate relationships

I've been in a number of celibate relationships in my life. They were definitely different that friendships, and I still get a definitely Love feeling when I think of them.

One was totally non-sexual (FF). No touching, kissing, barely even hugging (touch made her freak out) but we spent almost all of our spare time together, slept in the same bed, went away with each other, went to each other's family get togethers together, bought each other gifts, almost bought two homes together at different times.

One was very intimate (FF)- baths, showers, snuggling on the couch, sleeping in the same bed, but nothing sexual. She had been abused when she was a child, and raped as a young woman, and sex freaked her out, but we were so close we were like cuddly sisters. We went for dinner, drinks, walks, mini vacations, and told each other we loved each other all the time.

One was laden with sexual tension (FM). We shared a bedroom for a few months, even shared a boyfriend with the boyfriend as the hinge in our vee, flirted, even moved to a foreign country together. We never even kissed, but sometimes I'd be totally turned on just from sitting in the same room as him.

There are others.... I feel a bit like I'm in one with Mahogany right now.

For me, sex is a cherry on top. I am extremely sexual, and love when I have a connection with a partner that works in that way. But, if it doesn't work, I am comfortable never going there, and developing other aspects of the relationship and appreciating that love and connection as it is. Part of being a good partner to me is knowing what my partner needs, and doesn't need - if my partner doesn't need sex, or sex had the capacity to destroy our connection, then I don't bring that to them.

This is of course taking into consideration that I almost always have other conduits for my sexual energy at the same time. While I was in that vee with the dude/our share boyfriend, I also had a very sexual lover from Oklahoma that I saw two or three times a weekend, plus our shared boyfriend.

I call these relationships Intimate Friendships now, instead of celibate relationships. Seems more accurate to me. They're more than friendships, but most people don't consider them relationships, so it makes it easier to sum up how I feel.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by InsaneMystic View Post
Well, I know there are folks who would immediately jump at the chance to "call you out for acephobia" and pull off their usual antics.
Eye roll indeed. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Do these same people "call out heteros for homophobia" just because they only want relationships with people of the opposite sex? Do they not get offended if sexual people call them "sexophobic"? They can't possibly believe that their asexuality is not a valid dealbreaker for someone who requires sex in a relationship?

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
No, it is not. A decision kills off all other possibilities. The root of the word "decide" is the same as homicide, suicide, patricide, etc. I prefer to make choices over decisions. With choices there are always other options.

A decision is about what you will say "no" to. To decide is to eliminate, and kill off all other possibilities.
Holy crap I never thought about it that way, but that totally sums up why I have so much trouble making up my mind sometimes. When it was time for me to decide (choose?) whether to go to grad school or look for a job, I kept going back and forth and had the worst time of it. Looking back, I didn't have two things to choose between, I just had one decision to make - grad school: yes or no? "No" meant I was leaving myself completely flapping in the wind, with no local job prospects in my field and nothing really to do with my life. I ended up going to grad school, and I'm really glad I did because over the summer I'd forgotten how much I love academia. But it's exactly that "closing doors" part that made it so difficult.

Whenever I have at least two things to choose between, I can compare pros and cons of each option. But whenever I just have to decide whether or not to do something, I always struggle.
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2013, 10:00 AM
InsaneMystic InsaneMystic is offline
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Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
I wonder often if there is just such a focus on romance that sometimes it just doesn't feel okay not to have it in our lives?
While I do think that there's way, way too much societal focus on romance - especially the closed, one-on-one, symbiotic monogamy kind - as the must-have ideal, I don't really think that's part of the deal here.

Feeling a need/drive/wish/whateveryoucallit for sex is completely independent from feeling it for romance. While romantic sexuals are the majority by quite a big margin, there also are aromantic sexuals, romantic asexuals, and aromantic asexuals, too... even before bringing all the grey areas in between into the picture. And as long as they handle their 'ships with honesty and respect, I have no beef with any single one of those combos.

Romance really has nothing to do with sex, in and of itself... it just happens to coincide that way for you and lots of other people. Which is perfectly fine, of course - just not true for everyone.


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Eye roll indeed. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Do these same people "call out heteros for homophobia" just because they only want relationships with people of the opposite sex? Do they not get offended if sexual people call them "sexophobic"? They can't possibly believe that their asexuality is not a valid dealbreaker for someone who requires sex in a relationship?
"Funnily" enough, these folks actually are often very scalding of sexual people in general, yep, and will hold it against you if you say can't live without sex. (Also, usually disliking heterosexuals as much as homo, bi, pan, whathaveyou... so "calling heteros out for homophobia" doesn't happen too much from them - they're "equal opportunity haters" on that front. ) IMO, the word "sexophobic" is quite fitting; a more common word is antisexuals (and yup, they can be quite as rabid as that label suggests, while actually wearing it as a badge of pride... if you ever want to see slut shaming at its "best", just watch an antisexual shift into high-gear and start a rant. )

I guess it just shows that in every group, you'll get some vocal jerkasses fueled by intolerance and/or entitlement issues... and it makes me sad that there's a sizeable risk of asexuality getting conflated with antisexuality because of a fanatic subgroup's vocal antics. (It's especially grating to me, as I have to admit that during puberty and early twenties, I had quite an antisexual mindset, myself... I am very glad I managed to mature out of it. Intolerance and elitism gets you nowhere, least of all into a loving relationship.)

Last edited by InsaneMystic; 02-16-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:58 AM
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"Funnily" enough, these folks actually are often very scalding of sexual people in general, yep, and will hold it against you if you say can't live without sex. (Also, usually disliking heterosexuals as much as homo, bi, pan, whathaveyou... so "calling heteros out for homophobia" doesn't happen too much from them - they're "equal opportunity haters" on that front. ) IMO, the word "sexophobic" is quite fitting; a more common word is antisexuals (and yup, they can be quite as rabid as that label suggests, while actually wearing it as a badge of pride... if you ever want to see slut shaming at its "best", just watch an antisexual shift into high-gear and start a rant. )
I'm grateful I haven't encountered that. Surely they must realise that without a significant portion of the population being sexual, there would be no human race. I guess that's not such a bad thing, from the point of view of the planet... but still. At the very least, they owe their existence to the fact that their parents were not asexual.

But, haters gonna hate. I'm inferring that people like that probably have a lot of hatred for a lot of people, not just sexuals but pretty much anyone unlike them. I haven't met many people who are closed minded on only a single issue. Most people are either open or closed minded in general, and tend to paint with a broad brush either way.

Oh well. The world would be a fairly boring place if everyone just got along all the time. Where's the adventure in that?
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Gralson: my husband. Auto: my girlfriend.
Zoffee: Auto's husband. Cue: Zoffee's boyfriend. Bookie: Cue's wife.

"Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. " -- Louis de Bernières
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