Children and Polyamory

[Tonberry]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

You can only inject one spermatozoon into an egg, then the egg goes into lock-down mode. But you could put the eggs into a sea of sperm from both men and let them duke it out.

Is it your own inability to conceive that requires you to consider IVF? Or the desire to have both men as fathers to the child without really "knowing" which one is biological? You could accomplish that the old-fashioned way.

Have you considered adoption? Plenty of kids need good homes, and that would eliminate the possibility of any father ever laying more "claim" to the child than the other.

I figured she meant IVF was the option for her fr fertility reasons (and because she wanted a biological child).

They usually implant more than one fertilized egg to increase the odds, so I don't see why they couldn't go half and half on who provided the sperms, provided they don't use an odd number or fertilized eggs.

[twoplus1]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

You can only inject one spermatozoon into an egg, then the egg goes into lock-down mode. But you could put the eggs into a sea of sperm from both men and let them duke it out.

Is it your own inability to conceive that requires you to consider IVF? Or the desire to have both men as fathers to the child without really "knowing" which one is biological? You could accomplish that the old-fashioned way.

Have you considered adoption? Plenty of kids need good homes, and that would eliminate the possibility of any father ever laying more "claim" to the child than the other.

No or maybe still capable of pregnancy at a far lower chance with age and would then require a reversal of tube clamping, however I know the procedures of the IVF sperm to egg. Rather I guess I should have been somewhat more clear in my query. It is we all desire children and I have had 3 grown as i started at 16 ended at 23. But we were more curious of ...Lets say I have the eggs knowingly fertilized by both men separately of course but say 4 implanted 2 of each mans ,as we will be going the way of the already checked for everything once sperm an egg take in laymans terms. Thus implanting choice as I have one adult special needs child I'd rather not tempt fate being older nor bring a child into this world under such cruel manners. For the record regardless of how far advanced we as human beings THINK we have evolved from prejudices having raised a child with a disadvantage is like waging war with the world still ... Also goes for race as well as it was no picnic for them canadian or not as here our racism and other prejudices are clandestine lest ur the one that is the target, u dont necessarily see or hear of things like racism or classism here!
That rant said I'd love the old fashion lets see who caught me way but it's extremely improbable a way thru a decision quick on ages heels lol! So hence the question anyone know can u ,as in I assume it being us paying its our decision but has anyone or do they know of anyone having gone and tried this way?
Yes we discussed surrogates but laws from US/UK/Canada all are little known to most ...Say birth mother is legally and always mother even tho' oddly there is not one drop of dna carried by that mother over to that child she gives birth to!!! Odd law right... so that is a big NOPE too! Adoption,hmmmmm thot of yep but they are younger want their own!!! Understandably so! However it's been thoroughly agreed upon if nothing comes of a treatment no more money shall be put out as my already children an hahahaha grand child are theres by proxy if u will lol! They aren't we puppies just not way over the 40 mark, me in 40's , so u can see time be of thee essence!! It was just an odd curious thot to A. saave money lol and B. hasen the pace but two separate invetroes isnt out and we have broached the question of whose is it? Well got it covered till I die no dna test so treated equally by both men. And just to tickle the mind here one is caucasian the other black and me I am mustee...bl/wh/native

[AJ1]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Have you considered adoption? Plenty of kids need good homes, and that would eliminate the possibility of any father ever laying more "claim" to the child than the other.

I hesitate to add this for fear of straying off topic, but it an oft-repeated misconception that there are "plenty of kids waiting to be adopted." This was true decades ago, but not today. While technically true in the strictest sense, there are huge waiting lists for children under age 5 that are not disabled. Parenting a disabled child or an older child (who almost certainly has endured major trauma to be available for adoption) is not for the faint of heart - and is not something that should be encouraged to any woman simply because her baby-making parts don't function well.

Anyone, regardless of the state of their reproductive system, who has the desire and capacity to care for such children should absolutely pursue that path (and if you're not sure, try fostering. There is, quite unfortunately, a world of difference between "normal" children and those that have suffered abuse and neglect). But requiring IVF to reproduce and being such a gifted person are two unrelated features.

[twoplus1]

Originally Posted by AJ1

I hesitate to add this for fear of straying off topic, but it an oft-repeated misconception that there are "plenty of kids waiting to be adopted." This was true decades ago, but not today. While technically true in the strictest sense, there are huge waiting lists for children under age 5 that are not disabled. Parenting a disabled child or an older child (who almost certainly has endured major trauma to be available for adoption) is not for the faint of heart - and is not something that should be encouraged to any woman simply because her baby-making parts don't function well.

Anyone, regardless of the state of their reproductive system, who has the desire and capacity to care for such children should absolutely pursue that path (and if you're not sure, try fostering. There is, quite unfortunately, a world of difference between "normal" children and those that have suffered abuse and neglect). But requiring IVF to reproduce and being such a gifted person are two unrelated features.

I am a tossed around adopted child and met my other brother not lucky to have grown up with as a child some oh 25 yrs ago since kept in touch only now growin closer however the brother i did grow up with wasnt anymore fortunate than I forced to remain behind while i experienced priveledge and not knowing one in the middle assumed for most our lives we were 6 yr apart hmmm y? then found the other puzzle piece ,as I said my big bro not as fortunate long story short he was murdered 95 i am not a firm believer in adoption too many of us are fucked the hell up on some level but each to their own ...Ie a child from another country war torn etc cool but genetics kicks in at some point and can u s say a white woman give a asian child their roots NOPE as no one could any us so ur theory may hold water for some being on both end not with me ! no offence intended but biology is our key then if as I said it doesnt work out I 'll buy more show cats an dogs an move forward as I am fortunate enuff to be restarting not beginning as said I have three grown ! so opinion noted , lol not accepted as they know the score and it would end at our try but the question was not to at all cost have but if we can can we do this our way?
TA.

[MrFarFromRight]

Originally Posted by AJ1

Parenting a disabled child or an older child (who almost certainly has endured major trauma to be available for adoption) is not for the faint of heart - and is not something that should be encouraged to any woman simply because her baby-making parts don't function well.

THANKS, AJ1!!! I go a step beyond and say "don't have kids unless you REALLY mean it". Too many people slip into having kids because it's "the done thing"; because "it's now or never"; or just because they get pregnant and won't take the difficult decision to have an abortion. This is ONE reason why there are so many unwanted, fucked-over, difficult over-5s needing a GOOD family.

Having children should NOT be the default setting!!!

I spent a year at teacher training college because I WANTED to be a teacher, because children mean THE WORLD to me. Many - perhaps most - of my fellow student-teachers were there because it was an easy option. Because in the UK it's MUCH easier to get into a t.t.c. than into a university; because their own children were old enough / because they had just divorced and they wanted to get back into a PAYING job; because bosses want cute secretaries but children don't mind if you're not very sexy...

I dropped out of t.t.c. [where I was doing really well, where my tutor was delighted with me: a man who wanted to work with 3>6-year-olds... and did it well] because it became obvious to me that in 70s UK, what the system [NOT my tutor] wanted was childrenpolice. Mould them into compliant, unquestioning, trouble-free citizens [trouble-free for the powers-that-be]. And no way did I want to do THAT job!

But I weep for kids in classes where the teachers (dis)honestly couldn't care less.

And even more for those kids in FAMILIES where their parents ditto.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by twoplus1

Yes we discussed surrogates but laws from US/UK/Canada all are little known to most ...Say birth mother is legally and always mother even tho' oddly there is not one drop of dna carried by that mother over to that child she gives birth to!!! Odd law right... so that is a big NOPE too!

And rightfully so. What's odd about the person who spends 10 months carrying a fetus, provides the vast amounts of nutrition and energy, and then goes through labour having the right to raise that being?

DNA is, frankly, the smallest contribution to the process. Ask any single mother with a dead-beat ex fora sperm donor.

That being said, I support your desire to go through that process yourself. Just saying that I agree with the law.

[Tonberry]

While I agree that carrying the child makes you more of a parent than providing DNA (both of which being negligible compared to doing the actual raising), I can understand frustration in this specific context: with surrogacy the people paying for everything are the people providing the DNA, and the person carrying the child is paid for their trouble. If then they have the right to just say they're keeping the child... at the very least they should be required to pay back everyone else.

Which might be the case, of course.

At any rate, it probably doesn't happen that often. It's like how a birth mother has the right to take a child back with adoption (for a period of time that varies from, I think, one month minimum to something like six months or a year), but in effect it very rarely happens.

[SchrodingersCat]

Originally Posted by Tonberry

While I agree that carrying the child makes you more of a parent than providing DNA (both of which being negligible compared to doing the actual raising), I can understand frustration in this specific context: with surrogacy the people paying for everything are the people providing the DNA, and the person carrying the child is paid for their trouble. If then they have the right to just say they're keeping the child... at the very least they should be required to pay back everyone else.

I think that's part of the motivation behind the Canadian version of the law, where it's illegal to pay a surrogate for her services. The adoptive parents also don't have to pay for the costs upfront, but rather reimburse the mother for her out-of-pocket expenses after the adoption.

As a completely unrelated anecdote, my girlfriend has a very cool surrogacy/parenting arrangement. Her husband is FTM trans* and they wanted more kids. They had a gay male friend who also wanted kids. So, he provided sperm for the first child, which my girlfriend is raising, and she then provided surrogacy for the second child, which the friend is raising. Bonus: All the kids spend the weekend together, including her older daughter from a previous relationship. They spend every Friday night at the biological father's house, and Saturday night at my girlfriend's. All the parents get one free night off every week, and all the kids get a whole weekend to spend with their siblings.

[BoringGuy]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Her husband is FTM trans* and they wanted more kids.

If her husband is FTM trans, how did they get the kids they already had? Adoption? Sperm donor? That information is not available?

[ThatGirlInGray]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

including her older daughter from a previous relationship.

Besides this one?