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  #41  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:55 PM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
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Originally Posted by constlady View Post
What I'd like to see in terms of legislation at this point in time is simple.
Any agency charged with determining the suitability of a particular home for children should not be basing their recommendation in any way on the parent/guardian's sex life, unless of course that sex life includes abuse of the children, which to my way of thinking is a totally separate issue.
It is my understanding that this is already the professional standard for licensed social workers. Now, whether an individual social worker adheres to the standard is a different question.

More importantly, the recommendation of the social worker is ONLY a recommendation. The decision is made by the family court judge, to whom the social workers' professional standards don't apply.

If we want to turn things around, we need out polys giving presentations to the next generation of lawyers and judges in law school classes, as well as to the next generation of social workers.

Last edited by jasminegld; 01-04-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:00 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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The divide isn't clear because one person may consider themselves in a poly relationship and another person may view that relationship as swinging.

People have a tendency to assign their own values to the definitions and then look at how other people manifest that definition through their own lens of values.

We've seen that in these forums when some people think that only a commitment over a long time would qualify as a loving relationship where others view the nature of the connection rather than the quantity of time. Both manifestations can exist under the same definition.

For me, it makes more sense to not assign personal values to definitions because they usually try to make such definitions mean more than they actually mean, and the usual purpose of doing so is to exclude certain identities for the sake of conformity.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:05 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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Originally Posted by jasminegld View Post
It is my understanding that this is already the professional standard for licensed social workers. Now, whether an individual social worker adheres to the standard is a different question.
that is interesting. it is certainly the situation here in the UK but i had understood from others than it wasn't in the US. do you know what a US citizen would be able to do should an individual social worker not adhere to that standard? perhaps the folk on this board who seem to believe otherwise are basing that view on individual experiences of individual social workers rather than knowledge of the overall professional standards. it would certainly be interesting to know what a person's rights would be in cases of bad practise and what protection is in place for them.

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  #44  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:09 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Originally Posted by dakid View Post

i hope i am right in thinking that there is no current threat to your custody of your son, and that this is highly unlikely in the future.

x
While there is perhaps no current threat to Redpepper's son..there is certainly the possibility of that changing based on the ideas and misinterpretations of those around us. And yes, sexual activities beyond the norm can definitely cause a great deal of issue with child protection where we live; especially when those activities are backed up by the concerns and aligations of other family members. Not to say that it could threaten actual custody, but certainly cause tremendous emotional and financial stress, not to mention family disintegration. Not choosing to use a huge umbrella word like polyamory is a safe choice. It's better to speak in clear descriptive terms of each relationship if there is more than yourselves at stake. I think there is more than one person with children on here that feel this way.

I'm fine with people including everything within the word polyamory. I just don't use it anymore except within the community itself.

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  #45  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:14 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
It's better to speak in clear descriptive terms of each relationship if there is more than yourselves at stake. I think there is more than one person with children on here that feel this way.
Which is exactly why I find it more productive to challenge the assumptions rather than the word that the assumptions are attached to.
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  #46  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:25 PM
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Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I guess what it comes down to is that things don't have to look or even be entirely alike to have things in common. The definitions are only speaking to the elements that these things have in common. In the case of polyamory, love and multiple relationships. It does not specifically exclude the things that we don't have in common (the weight of sex vs love, the nature of how the love manifests) for a good reason. Because then it would also start excluding the things that they do have in common. It's a great way to specifically exclude people from a community.
Indeed, therefore polyamory and swinging may not look alike (to some people) yet they may have many things in common. Hence saying they are not mutually exclusive.

It follows with an example I have used of the spectrum in regards to these two communities. You have two extremes. Those who virulently state that polyamory does not have to include sex and those who state that swinging does not have to include love.

However, when you move towards the center of the spectrum, you get the gray area people. Those who see love in swinging and those who sex in polyamory. Then the "differences" that some claim exist, really aren't there for those who inhabit the gray middle and some degrees from the gray middle. Those who inhabit the middle may use terms swinger and polyamorist while their behaviors are nearly indistinguishable from each other.

Separating the two does not speak to the experience of these individuals and proves divisive.

Understanding the above is the antithesis of not focusing on difference. It is in fact embracing difference where others would use difference to divide.

It is much like what occurred in another thread around one member's use of the word fuckbuddy. Another member insisted that the term lover be used. I have seen people describe their relationships and receive the most audacious response of "oh well that's different, you're not really a swinger, you're poly," because the behavior fit their definition of polyamory yet they totally disregard the individual's perspective and assertion that they are a swinger. And vice versa with the "That's not poly. You're a swinger," deigning to give their true definition of another's relationship and giving no value to that person's chosen self identification.

This is what can come from focusing only on the commonalities and not focusing on understanding and reaching across differences.

Blindness. Utter and complete. To anyone else's experience other than oneself.

~Raven~
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Last edited by Ravenesque; 01-04-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:28 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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mono, as i have stated elsewhere on this forum, i have parental responsibility for my niece so this is not just theory for me either.

excluding some people from the poly community, or tightening up definitions of polyamory, is not going to protect anyone from inaccurate accusations.

if someone wants to make a malicious allegation against you they will, regardless of the word(s) you or any other person uses to describe your or their sex and/or love lives.

an unjust system which would judge someone's parenting ability based solely on the sex that person is having (presuming its consensual) needs to be fought against, not the people who are the victims of said prejudice.

not only for ethical reasons, but for the tactical ones i have previously described.

it is in your and your family's best interests that you understand this and get involved in the struggle for us all to have the sex and love lives we choose, and to be allowed to parent well regardless of our sex and love lives.

sorry, edited to add: in my not always very humble opinion!

Last edited by dakid; 01-04-2010 at 06:40 PM.
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:56 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post

it is in your and your family's best interests that you understand this and get involved in the struggle for us all to have the sex and love lives we choose, and to be allowed to parent well regardless of our sex and love lives.

![/I]
Sorry to disagree my friend, but I think it is better to distance ourselves from the vagueness and large umbrella that certain terms cover. I am no activist but I am trained in other areas to achieve goals. I think tactically as a small unit to protect my own, not in a broader sense of furthering a cause or movement if such a thing exists. From that perspective it is best to simplify and reduce weight or weaknesses to better my position. Therefore I stick to hard and fast definitions and descriptions. Sorry to not be a part of something bigger..not my way.
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 01-04-2010 at 07:00 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:51 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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I spoke to Redpepper about my last comment above and she reminded me of one important factor that I should have mentioned. If my actions in trying to protect my own family benefit the community as a whole that that is great! I'm not opposed to working as a group to achieve safety and acceptance for my family, but I do it for my family primarily and not the community.
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  #50  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:55 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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although of course it doesn't have to be either or.

as i said i believe the best way to protect one's family and loved ones from prejudice and untrue allegations is also what is best for the community.

however if actions you take in the belief that they will protect your family (mistaken in my view but clearly not yours) is divisive and damaging to a community i am part of i will never support you, i am afraid. i fully respect your right to do what you think is for the best, don't get me wrong, but i cannot support you in doing so and will speak up to defend myself and my communities.

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