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  #31  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:30 AM
quila quila is offline
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Originally Posted by StitchwitchD View Post
Being committed to each other is one thing, wanting the same things out of the relationship are something else entirely.

In the situation I'd previously mentioned, they're very committed to their marriage, and we're all committed to being friends and supporting each other.
That's not even an issue.

However, there's some conflict over the details. She'd like to have a mostly monogamous (and completely monoamorous) marriage, have sex when she feels like it (every 2-3 months) and have 3rd adult in the household to help with chores, kids and finances. He'd like to have sex on a regular basis (at least a few times a week), not hurt anyone's feelings and stay married to his wife, and he'd like more help with housework than she normally provides. I'd like to have a poly relationship with him, and not hurt anyone's feelings in the process. So, is there any way that commitment will help resolve this situation in a way that we'd all be okay with?
I don't think commitment is what will help resolve this situation... I would have to say that commitment only comes in to play after all parties have decided what they want to "commit to."

I guess in relation to "goals vs commitment" being the foundation of a relationship, your situation shows that people need to have compatible goals before it makes sense to talk about commitment.

I don't remember my spouse and I ever actually talking about our goals before getting into a relationship. We met, were infatuated, and that feeling has never faded, and along with it has grown a very deep and meaningful love that far surpasses the initial infatuation. I do remember that once in the relationship, it occurred to us that we should discuss our goals, both in the relationship and as individuals. We weren't surprised to find that our goals were compatible.

I think the commitment initially grew on its own, not because we thought it should. He was the first person I cared enough about to actually give a crap how he felt about what I did. I'm naturally selfish, I won't deny it, but that was one of the things that made me realize I was committed to him: I didn't want to be selfish when it would cause him pain or discomfort... For his part, he had never been one to talk about his feelings. Actually, more than that, he didn't really acknowledge that he HAD feelings. Long story. But one of the signs of his commitment was the angst he went through to learn how to talk about his feelings, share his thoughts, and trust me with his secrets, trust me not to criticize him for having certain emotional responses to things. But overall, I think the commitment is an entity unto itself, and these are all products of that commitment, not the other way around.
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Last edited by quila; 01-03-2010 at 05:34 AM.
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  #32  
Old 01-03-2010, 02:03 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Default Incompatible goals/values and commitment

Quote:
Originally Posted by StitchwitchD View Post
Being committed to each other is one thing, wanting the same things out of the relationship are something else entirely.
Ah yes, I think this is an excellent distinction. Commitment, at least the way I define it, doesn't "gloss over" fundamental details in terms of values and goals. It might make you feel like you wish to stay around to find some common ground, even when you suspect there is not, but once it is final that goals or values are incompatible, then no amount of commitment will cause the relationship to be a happy one.

Quote:
However, there's some conflict over the details. She'd like to have a mostly monogamous (and completely monoamorous) marriage, have sex when she feels like it (every 2-3 months) and have 3rd adult in the household to help with chores, kids and finances. He'd like to have sex on a regular basis (at least a few times a week), not hurt anyone's feelings and stay married to his wife, and he'd like more help with housework than she normally provides. I'd like to have a poly relationship with him, and not hurt anyone's feelings in the process. So, is there any way that commitment will help resolve this situation in a way that we'd all be okay with?
I agree with you - no, there is no way that this can be forced to work without some negotiation, which may or may not come up with a solution.

In my own situation and when helping others, i have have recommended that people think about what they want in terms of the "bottom lines" - what do they absolutely need in order to be happy. This isn't always the complete list of things they would *like*. Once you work out your bottom line you can compare with the others that you are trying to have a relationship with - if there are some clashes in those bottom lines, then there's really no point in continuing to thrash about - bottom-lines are non-negotiable things and the only way to force it to work is if someone gives up something that is vitally important to them for the "sake of the relationship". They won't be happy, and resentment and anger will creep in.

It's not a new concept, and it's certainly not originally mine (i.e. I won't take credit for it), but I have found that it works. I wrote about it at greater length in my blog at http://cieldumatin.livejournal.com/.
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  #33  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:36 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StitchwitchD View Post
However, there's some conflict over the details. She'd like to have a mostly monogamous (and completely monoamorous) marriage, have sex when she feels like it (every 2-3 months) and have 3rd adult in the household to help with chores, kids and finances. He'd like to have sex on a regular basis (at least a few times a week), not hurt anyone's feelings and stay married to his wife, and he'd like more help with housework than she normally provides. I'd like to have a poly relationship with him, and not hurt anyone's feelings in the process. So, is there any way that commitment will help resolve this situation in a way that we'd all be okay with?
Unless you have a housekeeping business, the way I'd "resolve the situation" is to first hire a maid to help with the housework. Then perhaps sit down with a financial advisor and figure out a budget that allows [you] to live within [your] means. Third, use birth control so [you] don't wind up with more kids than [you] can support and care for.

Personally, I don't see it as a "poly relationship" if you're there as an on-call sex-toy and per-diem housekeeper/babysitter/cook, but who am I to "judge". I don't know "how other people's lives work", and of course, "my poly is not your poly". Etc. Etc. Etc.

But I do have one thing that sums it up FOR ME (moderator "hat" off), and that word is "Pfeh".

Last edited by NeonKaos; 01-03-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:57 PM
Tahirabs Tahirabs is offline
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Question Please respong

All this makes me think of question I once asked before but never got any real responces from.

If it wasn't for the people you love (the people you have a polyamourse relationship with) would you be poly at all?

I know I wouldn't and that is why I am writing this. If I never met my girlfriend I wouldn't be going out looking for other people. I wouldn't be in love with any one else other than my husband if it wasn't for her. It is her that makes my husband and my relationship poly. (which he loves by the way Does anyone else feel this way?
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:26 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by Tahirabs View Post
If it wasn't for the people you love (the people you have a polyamourse relationship with) would you be poly at all?
So if I understand your question, it's if I wasn't involved with the current people, would I be prepared to be monogamous with anyone?

If that is the question, then my answer would be "no". While I didn't have a term for it, I knew that monogamy wasn't a "comfortable" relationship model for me since I was a teen and well before either of my current relationships started.
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  #36  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:44 PM
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crisare crisare is offline
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Originally Posted by Tahirabs View Post
If it wasn't for the people you love (the people you have a polyamourse relationship with) would you be poly at all?
Yes.

My being poly is not based on who I'm with. It's based on a discovery I made several years ago that I *can* love more than one person at a time - not as I love my friends, but with a romantic, passionate, sexual love.

I broke up with my b/f earlier this summer, but losing him didn't make me not-poly. It just means I haven't found someone else yet.

Kinda like if a mono person breaks up with her b/f and is looking for another partner ... being currently single doesn't make her celibate for life.
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  #37  
Old 01-03-2010, 06:51 PM
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lovefromgirl lovefromgirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Tahirabs View Post
If it wasn't for the people you love (the people you have a polyamourse relationship with) would you be poly at all?
I was when I started looking, and I still am even though I'm only with the one wonderful man at present, so... yes, I'd say I would be.

Like CielDuMatin, though, I've come to it fairly young -- was already having issues "picking" at the age of seventeen ("Wait, I can't have a boyfriend and two girlfriends? Aw, nuts!") -- and that mindset has been more or less a part of me since then, whether consciously or subconsciously.

I always felt owned and possessed against my will in exclusive relationships. With CDM, that's just not there.
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  #38  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:33 PM
StitchwitchD StitchwitchD is offline
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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Unless you have a housekeeping business, the way I'd "resolve the situation" is to first hire a maid to help with the housework. Then perhaps sit down with a financial advisor and figure out a budget that allows [you] to live within [your] means. Third, use birth control so [you] don't wind up with more kids than [you] can support and care for.
That all makes sense in an ideal world....But in real life, things don't always go as planned, there can be unexpected factors like health problems, job loss, economic downturns, inflation that requires budgets to be constantly updated, and sometimes the only way to get through all the crap life throws at you is to have some kind of support network- which in other eras usually meant extended family, but poly can definitely be that.

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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Personally, I don't see it as a "poly relationship" if you're there as an on-call sex-toy and per-diem housekeeper/babysitter/cook, but who am I to "judge". I don't know "how other people's lives work", and of course, "my poly is not your poly". Etc. Etc. Etc.
I didn't mean to imply that it was- but one of the benefits of being in a live-in poly relationship is having multiple other adults to share the work of running a household, and have more incomes with little increase in expenses. It's just not reasonable to expect to get those benefits without making an emotional investment in the person/people providing them---unless of course you just get a roommate and figure out a fair way to divide everything up.
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2010, 12:27 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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I don't identify as polyamorous or monogamous. I suppose I identify as "healthyamorous". I like to be in good healthy relationships. A healthy relationship can be poly or mono. I don't prescribe how that should be for me. It just so happens the the good healthy ones I've found so far are poly. That doesn't mean mono relationships aren't healthy. It just means that the ones who have presented themselves to me at this time in my life are poly and I'm quite a happy with that. Not because it fulfills some innate poly nature of mine, but because it fulfills my hopes for healthy loving connections.

Last edited by Ceoli; 01-04-2010 at 03:19 AM.
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  #40  
Old 01-04-2010, 12:46 AM
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DrunkenPorcupine DrunkenPorcupine is offline
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I've just been sitting here reading & pondering, and some things occur to me...

I believe that it's the PEOPLE, not the relationships, that are monogamous or polyamorous.
I agree with you.

I am poly, my wife is not. For me, there's amory with multiple people, for her, there is sex outside of our relationship. Our relationship is "open", but I wouldn't call it poly.
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