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  #21  
Old 12-17-2009, 08:15 AM
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lovetouchPhx lovetouchPhx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BexyandBen View Post
the Law outlines all the "rules" for having polygynous relationships. None of those were changed in the New Testament--in fact, the only admonitions against it are specifically given to church leaders, just as the Law specifically mandated that Levites not practice it.
I realize this is an old post but wanted to add:

1) In NT not to "Church leaders" but only to the elders of two Churches - Timothy and Titus. Some speculate it was because these were more Gentile Church's not use to the Hebrew way of many wives and concubines. Although this practice had somewhat died out by NT times, probably more a financial issue - wives are expensive - not any religious or moral issue.

2) Of course Christians are not under "the Law" In the sermon on the mount Jesus clearly changed some OT laws (after saying he came not to change but fulfill) he did change them to only the law of love.
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  #22  
Old 12-17-2009, 04:45 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Hi, Dave.

Welcome to the forums! Glad you're here!
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2010, 10:27 PM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
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Originally Posted by duane View Post
I am a christian living in the Bible belt of Ky.
Duane, have you found www.kentuckypolyamory.org?

How are things going with your family and your religious questions?
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2010, 04:25 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Originally Posted by duane View Post
I am a christian living in the Bible belt of Ky. up until about 6 months ago my life was very normal, than my wife came home with a girlfriend. I didn't know I could love two people but I have fallen in love with her and my wife loves her very much also. My question is: Spiritually are we out of the will of God, 6 months ago I would say yes, but I have been doing a study on the subject and God and Jesus says, we are far better off with one mate but does not say we can't have more than one . Any help out there. Duane
Hi Duane,

I think it might be useful to point out the fact that any religious organization (i.e. christianity etc) is first and foremost a political organization and only secondly a spiritual one. Many of the "rules & regulations" presented as such are private interpretations of particular humans with their own agenda to pursue. These rules etc have only been painted over with what appears to be a spiritual coating to make them easier to swallow and therefor further the existing agenda.

Trust your heart - it's has "higher" connections......

GS
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2010, 06:18 PM
Quath Quath is offline
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Heh. That reminded me of a Simpson's quote:

Bart: Reverend Lovejoy, we need you to help us find a rabbi.
Rev.L: [flustered] Well, um, before you make any rash decisions, let me
just remind you that the church is changing to meet the needs
of today's young Christians!
-- Church Chat, ``Like Father, Like Clown''
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2010, 09:09 PM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Hi Duane,
I think it might be useful to point out the fact that any religious organization (i.e. christianity etc) is first and foremost a political organization and only secondly a spiritual one. Many of the "rules & regulations" presented as such are private interpretations of particular humans with their own agenda to pursue.
Grounded Spirit, when I first began to wrestle with reconciling the will of God with my interest in polyamory, the last thing I needed was someone disparaging my church ("first and foremost a political organization"; "their own agenda to pursue"). And there's a reason for that.

It's one thing to respectfully examine in depth the teachings of my church, find some of them lacking, and modify or abandon those teachings because of their inherent failures.

It's something else entirely to glibly abandon the teachings of my church because I found them inconvenient, because I wanted to do something the teachings prohibit.

When I first began this process, I HAD to wrestle with Scripture, with church teachings, and with my own soul. It was absolutely necessary for me that I understand polyamory within the context of my Christianity and the church teachings that I knew. I felt that anything less would be dishonest and hypocritical.

I don't know Duane. I don't know how far Duane has progressed in his examination process.

I do know that criticizing someone's church and/or religion is rarely productive. It can trigger defensiveness, a need to protect one's self, one's church, and one's connection with that church.

Far better to point out the emphasis Christianity places on truth, love, and authenticity. All of which are completely consistely with polyamory.

Last edited by jasminegld; 01-02-2010 at 09:11 PM. Reason: forgot something
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2010, 09:25 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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I think that when personal lifestyle choices, or needs, or preferences, or genetic imperatives conflict with the faith that you have taken on board (whether it be christianity, buddhism, taoism, paganism, agnosticism or atheism) it needs to be faced in some way. If not, then I think it becomes one of those things that can eat at the soul and the sense of self.

Some people can find a place in their religion for how they choose to, or feel compelled to live their lives, and some can not. Some feel that while they can still follow the teachings of that religion, they do not fit within their local congregation, and that, in and of itself, can be a huge challenge. I would suggest that resolving this latter issue is easier in larger cities, where there tends to be a wider variety of implementations of each faith, while still considered within the faith. I think that in smaller communities this often means keeping your faith, while not being able to participate in local congregations, which is a shame, because often they are a source of support and comfort to them.

So I guess I am suggesting that this issue is not a uniquely christian one.

I am certain that this becomes even more of an issue in countries with a less liberal attitude towards freedom of religious choice.

jasminegld, thank you for sharing this part of your story with us.
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2010, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Hi Duane,

I think it might be useful to point out the fact that any religious organization (i.e. christianity etc) is first and foremost a political organization and only secondly a spiritual one. Many of the "rules & regulations" presented as such are private interpretations of particular humans with their own agenda to pursue. These rules etc have only been painted over with what appears to be a spiritual coating to make them easier to swallow and therefor further the existing agenda.

Trust your heart - it's has "higher" connections......

GS
I see your point. There is a broadness to your statement which does not seem directed at any one organization.

I think that it can apply to any organization or group, religious, community based or otherwise. Often enough it is true that though one outward appearance is presented, there is an agenda behind the scenes that is at cross-purposes with the facade shown to entice the public.

The best advice for those interested is to thoroughly investigate what these organizations have to offer them. Do your core values match those of the organization you wish to join, even the hidden agenda? If the answer is yes than there is no problem in joining. If no, do not join.

Either way you would be trusting your heart.

~Raven~
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~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~

Last edited by Ravenesque; 01-03-2010 at 04:11 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2010, 07:12 PM
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lovefromgirl lovefromgirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
The best advice for those interested is to thoroughly investigate what these organizations have to offer them. Do your core values match those of the organization you wish to join, even the hidden agenda? If the answer is yes than there is no problem in joining. If no, do not join.

Either way you would be trusting your heart.
I took your advice with this Liberated Christian thing -- though I'm mostly a "hey, whatever's up there is up there, I dunno" sort of girl, I did like the notion that Christianity might accommodate polyamory.

I was almost sold on it, too, in the sense that yes, it made enough sense that I'd be willing to endorse it. So what made me change my mind?

The site has a very problematic section on adult/child sexuality; at one point, it is testified that a thirteen-year-old enjoyed his abuse.

DO NOT WANT. Thus, cannot endorse. Will happily look for the theology elsewhere, but for personal reasons, am unable to share that person's values on severely underage sex with adults.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovefromgirl View Post
I took your advice with this Liberated Christian thing -- though I'm mostly a "hey, whatever's up there is up there, I dunno" sort of girl, I did like the notion that Christianity might accommodate polyamory.

I was almost sold on it, too, in the sense that yes, it made enough sense that I'd be willing to endorse it. So what made me change my mind?

The site has a very problematic section on adult/child sexuality; at one point, it is testified that a thirteen-year-old enjoyed his abuse.

DO NOT WANT. Thus, cannot endorse. Will happily look for the theology elsewhere, but for personal reasons, am unable to share that person's values on severely underage sex with adults.
It is definitely advice to be used across a broad scope. Religion is one aspect. I find it rather helpful when dealing with alternative communities as well. As I said in another thread, being any one identity doesn't guarantee a progressive attitude, something I find preferable. It is usually needed for social change to occur.

There is a great deal of prejudice and moral relativity hidden under the guise of openness and forward thinking. An agenda to replicate normative social structures which benefit some and negatively affect others. All within the same alternative community such as the polyamorous one. I've managed to steer clear though not without some mistakes. That's a deceptive crowd and the agenda is not always easy to spot beneath the "spiritual coating" as GroundedSpirit put it.

~Raven~
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Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~

Last edited by Ravenesque; 01-04-2010 at 11:56 AM.
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