Just LR

[LovingRadiance]

Letter:

Around October of 2009, LovingRadiance came upon a new word she'd never heard used before: "polyamory." When she learned what it meant, it was a life-changing experience for her. For the first time in her life, she realized that she wasn't the only person out there capable of loving more than one person at the same time. There was a name for the style of relationship that had always seemed natural, logical and loving to her. Even more importantly, there were others out there who thought and loved like she did and also spent their lives feeling like they don't belong. She began to read everything she could possibly get her hands on, to reach out to other people online and in person, and to educate others about an underground lifestyle that had always been a part of her life.

LovingRadiance heard stories of Poly communities in Seattle and other cities across the US where monthly potlucks drew over 300 members of poly families. She told me about her vision to create a similar community in Alaska where poly families and their children, whether triads, vees, quads or whatever, could come together and support each other and share ideas or strategies for making their dynamics work. addressing issues in a productive and healthy way and most of all... supporting each family's right to love in their OWN WAY, without judgement or persecution.

Through open-minded online groups, she and Maca met other Poly individuals in Alaska and she shared her vision. She was clear about the fact her obligations at the time prevented her from organizing such a group, but she expressed her whole-hearted desire to be a co-organizer and/or supporter of establishing a local community get-together in Alaska. "B", the original organizer of this Meetup, found Meetup.com and suggested we use that web service as a way to get the meetings started. The plan was made, people were invited and the very first meetup was held at LovingRadiance & Maca's house.

I took the liberty of uploading a picture of the original organizer for this group, "B", sitting on LovingRadiance & Maca's couch almost exactly 2 years ago to the day at the first Alaska Polyamory Group Meetup. If you read the meetup description, "House S&M" was referring to LovingRadiance & Maca. Only 4 people attended, including Maca, LovingRadiance, and "B"... I was the 4th individual. If anyone wishes to verify my story they may visit the following link to the FIRST meetup ever held for this community: http://www.meetup.com/Alaska-Polyamo...ents/12226904/ Since I'm a self-acknowledged digital-hoarder, I also have the original emails from 2010 pertaining to establishing and organizing this group and would be happy to share them.

I have included a short excerpt to one of the original forum posts below as well as a link to the thread. Most interesting to me is the discussion about the purpose of forming the group in the first place. You can visit the pages yourself at this address if you wish to: http://www.meetup.com/Alaska-Polyamo...s/thread/90041

************************************************** ********************************
A FORMER MEMBER: We should discuss the "purpose" of this group?

With 30 member accounts (several of which represent multiple people) there are probably 40 ideas on what this group should "be".

What I've gathered so far is that we want a non-judgemental open forum to express ideas, explore values, meet like-minded people (have the opportunity to identify like minded people) and perhaps find that special someone(s).

Personally, I'd add the opportunity to hug a lot and feel free to tell people they make my neurons and/or endochrine system ignite tongue

Edited by User 8,190,033 on Apr 25, 2010 10:50 AM


A FORMER MEMBER: Other possible purposes for the group:
a) connect poly people in AK (we are not alone)
b) share info on resources and information about poly (books, internet resources...) Perhaps even book discussions and debates?
c) social activities, community building
d) plan snuggle parties
d) understand and embrace the diversity of the poly movement
e) work with other meetups in AK
f) work with national poly organizations (Loving More, Poly Living...), maybe even bring speakers to AK?
g) organize travel as group to national conferences, poly communities,
h) legal support and consultation for polys with concerns or legal problems
g) raise awareness of issues confronting poly people in AK

Just ideas, talk amongst yourselves....
************************************************** *******************************

I am being 100% honest and accurate when I state that this group would not exist today without LovingRadiance's advocacy & vision. A nod must also be given to (name of current organizer deleted for confidentiality) who stepped in and took over leadership when "B" had to step down. (names of two current organizers of group-deleted for confidentiality) were instrumental in maintaining this group and supporting it as it grew from 30 to over 200 members. I would never wish to imply that their contribution were not instrumental or valued because they absolutely were. However, I would like to publicly recognize that while (names of two current organizers of group-deleted for confidentiality) watered and nurtured the growth of this group, it was LovingRadiance & "B" who planted the seed.

I miss the founding members of this group and their vision for what it could be. It was meant to be a collaborative, positive environment for education, support, acceptance, community and understanding.
Had any of us known that some point any member(s) might be inclined to use this group as a way to harass, torment, victimize and slander other people within the poly community for ANY reason... whether they feel it justified or deserved or not, it would never have existed. I truly miss their insight, wisdom, experience and loving guidance that taught me most of what I know about the poly lifestyle and how to sustain it in a healthy way by establishing a core foundation of love, communication, selflessness and, most importantly, RESPECT.

I have no idea what rumors, stories, information or other words have been exchanged by any member(s) of this Meetup about Maca & LovingRadiance and their family. However, I will say that it doesn't really matter. I have known them BOTH for almost 8 years and I have been a personal observer and PARTICIPANT in their family dynamic in various roles, at various points in time since before this group was a spark in LovingRadiance's brilliant brain matter. I was Maca's first partner outside of his marriage to help him gently through the transition from monogamy to the poly lifestyle because he needed someone he could trust, because I cared about them both deeply, because I wanted to see their poly dynamic succeed and because LovingRadiance loved him enough to have the courage to ask me if I would be more than just a friend in their lives. Not only did I agree, I was honored that they asked me to be a part of their poly journey. Maca has never divulged who I am at my request for discretion, so please understand how serious this situation is to have prompted me to divulge it now to over 200 perfect strangers.

Why do I tell all of you this now? Because someone in this group has chosen to spread extremely unkind, untrue, biased stories about a family that I dearly love and, specifically, about a woman I deeply respect and admire. It doesn't matter what those stories are... if they do not include information about how intelligent, loving, respectful, vulnerable and remarkably strong LovingRadiance is, then they are not true. Everyone is fragile when pushed to their limits, however no one among us deserves to be judged for our vulnerability or fragility. No one deserves to be talked about behind their back. No one deserves to be made to feel unwelcome, unwanted or intimidated in any fashion. No one deserves to have the boundaries and agreements of their poly dynamic violated over and over and OVER again... and then be crucified and judged when it breaks her heart.

No one deserves to have her husband and the love of her life refuse to step up and acknowledge his own part in the misunderstandings, then have him then fail to defend her when she's attacked because of them. I ought to know, since I was a party to those miscommunications myself. Why would a husband do such a thing? Why would he lie about his wife or refuse to set the record straight? Because he wants you all to like him and he doesn't want to be subject to the same kind of judgment himself. He wants to belong, be accepted and liked. The only difference is that I already KNEW both sides of the story, so my answer was to sit them BOTH down in the same room and give them the opportunity to clarify everything between all three of us. Problem SOLVED... and I still respected myself in the morning.

The vision the original members had for this group was a beautiful, peaceful, loving one full of enlightened, open-minded and respectful individuals. What few may realize is that it's not the "ousted" people who are hurt most when they told they don't belong here. They will move on and continue down their original paths, taking with them the benefit of their experience, wisdom, compassion and enlightenment... and this community will be the poorer for it. Nobody wins when situations like this are allowed to occur and continue; WE ALL LOSE.

[LovingRadiance]

"B" 's personal poly mantra was "Oh, if you have questions about _________ (insert person's name), then you should definitely talk to them about it," or "You're saying you have a problem with _________ (insert person's name here), I definitely recommend bringing that up to them." He made it clear that discussing other people without them present in the ROOM within a poly dynamic, or otherwise, was unacceptable and intolerable. Personally, I find that to be one of the most valuable lessons I've learned to date about making poly a successful, positive experience. Further, it's just general good manners and common decency REGARDLESS of your relationship dynamic or sexual orientation.l

I don't understand how anyone justify promoting a "right" way and a "wrong" way to do poly. When did it become ok to say, "If you don't do poly MY way, you don't have any business being here?" The last time I heard those kind of statements, they sounded a lot more like this: "There's only one way to have a marriage; a man and a woman. There's only one way to have a family and if you don't do it that way, there's something wrong with you."

To me, that is not polyamory, it's polyhatred... we hate everyone who doesn't do poly the way WE do poly. THAT type of close-minded bigotry is precisely the attitude this group was formed to AVOID, not to promote and justify. I don't understand what's occurred here in the past couple of years or why it has been tolerated. We began with 30 people and now it's over 200, so obviously there was a community in Alaska that needed what those 30 people set out to provide. I'd like to believe that the majority of the members in this group have love and understanding at the core of their intentions. I truly hope it finds a way to shine through.

FYI-there were a few other people at that very first meet-up. GG was here, as were Blaidwyn (I think that's spelled correctly) and his wife. Also, "B" brought a guest, and of course the kids were here running loose.

The point is still the same. We held that very first meet up and we had a plan of creating a place of safety and acceptance for ALL. We worked out asses off to create an understanding of the importance of facing a problem when it arises, by going directly to the person you were taking issue with and addressing them face to face with no "middle man" and resolving it with love and understanding.
THAT is what has been lost as the group has grown. There is no expectation that if a problem arises between members, they will go to one another directly and seek resolution. There is no expectation that members who refuse to take this responsibility will be reminded respectfully that it is a necessary component of poly and thus a necessary component of a poly community and that if they continue to refuse, they will lose the privilege of participation.

Instead-the people who are holding these grudges and refusing to resolve them are creating such a caustic and damaging environment that others are leaving.

[midnightsun]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

So, Thank you Midnightsun for writing the following to the Alaska Polyamory Meetup Group on my behalf. I don't know that it will do any good in terms of me being able to socialize with the group. But it does mean a lot to know that someone cares enough to publicly express their outrage over the allowing of inappropriate treatment of members.

Seriously, I wish there were more I could do LR. I have to confess I had fantasies of petitioning longstanding members of this group to infiltrate and overwhelm the AK Poly Group Meetup and enact a friendly takeover of the forum there... it's almost never used.

I simply can't fathom how your wisdom, guidance, insight and compassion can be so sincerely valued and appreciated here at polyamory.com, yet your own local community has determined you don't know what poly is "really" about and have no business participating in the lifestyle. Seriously? All because you DARE to have boundaries and expect them to be followed? Oh, and because you don't sleep with every person you meet that you find even mildly attractive?

I meant what I said when I called it "Guerrilla Polyamory." I'm so sorry, my friend, that what started out as an act of love has been corrupted and twisted into an act of war. Nearly everything I know about healthy, functional, respectful polyamory I've learned from Loving Radiance and from the other enlightened individuals at polyamory.com. Not only have I learned much from you, LR, about poly, I've learned volumes in the last 8 years about being a woman, a lover, a friend, a wife and a human being.

Most importantly, I've learned priceless lessons about being ME... and for that, it's I who offer my thanks publicly to YOU. *hug*

[LovingRadiance]

Sour pea didnt get the memo that we were going for a relaxing weekend. She split her chin open, loose teeth in front and one broken in back. Looking at 3-5 stitches.
But we have freezing rain and NASTY roads. So an exceptionally long wait at the ER because there were multiple roll overs on the hwy.

[midnightsun]

Awwww, poor Sour Pea! I saw the pic... owie, owie, owie!!!

In better news, I at least succeeded in instigating a policy change, here's the mass mailing that resulted from my messages:

Greetings APG members,

Regarding the recent mass emailing situation, this is notification that all messages sent out to the members of our group have been temporarily set to a Moderated Status.

Messages sent to the Mailing List must now be reviewed and approved or declined by either Organizer before being sent. We want to apologize for everyone’s inconvenience.

I appreciate everyone's patience while we work on a permanent solution so we have a group policy to prevent situations such as this.

These actions are not to single out or take a position regarding any of the parties involved in this or any other similar matters, this group is not the appropriate setting or venue to address personal issues.

The Organizers of the Alaska Polyamory Group want to maintain an environment that promotes polyamorous and non-monogamous interests and learning. We will be reviewing our options in regard to the future management and policy of our mailing list and personal matter’s addressed on our forums.

Regards,

The APG Organizers

My reply:

I absolutely agree and appreciate your response. I would also like to respectfully request that the APG Organizers establish policies regarding addressing similar situations at Meetups and hosted events to prevent situations like this from occurring in the future. Regardless of personal differences, disagreements or histories, no one in in the poly community in Alaska should EVER feel like they cannot attend a group event due to rumors, gossip or personal information shared without their permission by other members.

While it's logistically impossible to enforce and prevent a member from behaving in that manner, voting in a zero tolerance policy would allow organizers to remove any member(s) of APG who violate the policies. I am not requesting that anyone be removed from this group, simply requesting that new policies be created to prevent future incidents. Realistically, wherever group dynamics and human emotions are involved there exists the potential for misunderstandings, hurt feelings, broken hearts and disagreements. Therefore, it is not simply because of this one situation that I make my heartfelt plea to the organizers of this group.

This was intended to be a SAFE community, free from judgement or retaliation for divergent views, beliefs, practices, philosophies, ideals or poly dynamics. I trust the APG Leadership will take steps to return this community to that standard and ensure that it continues to be a valuable, positive resource for poly individuals in Alaska for years to come.

My sincere thanks,

Sunny

[LovingRadiance]

6 stitches, 1 broken tooth, 2 loose teeth. But-she's back up and ready to go.

I think thats a reasonable response.

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

6 stitches, 1 broken tooth, 2 loose teeth. But-she's back up and ready to go.

I think thats a reasonable response.

Didn't she break her arm just a few months ago? She is going to turn your hair grey. Glad she's back up and around.

[LovingRadiance]

Yes-she broke her arm on her bday, during the party in June.
She certainly wears me out. But she's a lovebug too.

Her brother helped her make a HUGE fort this evening. He's in "protective brother" mode.

[MrFarFromRight]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

Sunday my sister, GG, Maca and myself attended another meet up in town-and it was PACKED! We met some people, but the awkward part was the interest in us personally. There were so many questions aimed directly at us regarding our specific family dynamics and lifestyle. It wasn't bad-but it was bizarre.

Yeah, I saw the write-up-with-photos of that meet-up in "Hola" (one of Spain's many "People"-type magazines). It was good to get a face to go with the name, after all this time of just seeing your tattooed back. But the celebrity gossip about you...

!!!

[MrFarFromRight]

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

So bizarre.
So, yesterday I got a third request to add "her" to the private poly fb group I started.
I had already ignored the previous two.
This time I asked Maca for her number and sent her a text. I let her know it was my group and that I had received the requests, but was under the impression she didn't want to to have anything to do with me or my life-thus why I hadn't approved it.

She replied with a wordy response basically saying she wanted to be able to socialize with her poly friends on fb.

I replied and let her know that if she wanted to meet for coffee to discuss the conflict and contention between us, we could then discuss her joining the group. If she preferred not to meet, I thought it best that we avoid intermixing our socializing insomuch as possible in such a small town. Adding that I would respect her choice either way.

Haven't heard a word since. I suspect that there will be fallout-but I'm confident that my response was reasonable and respectful while still maintaining my personal boundaries.

Oh, LR, LR!!! Can't you get into your noggin the lesson that this woman is so tirelessly (and selflessly) trying to teach you?! You SHOULDN'T HAVE any personal boundaries!

OK, I'm going to get serious now [ahem ahem]: You are instrumental in starting a pioneer group for Alaskan polys - membership open to anyone. This woman joins it and then (I don't know how much later) uses your group to spread bad feelings and false rumours about you to other members. Such bad feelings does she create that you leave the group that you helped to give birth to. Have I got that right?

Now you've started a fb poly group in which you maintain moderator status, so that you can OK or veto potential new members. She wants to join and gets 3 people to request her membership, tells you that she "want[s] to be able to socialize with her poly friends on fb". Sounds to me like stalking with intent to K.O. the "champ". Like she wants status and her way of getting it is to out-shoot the legend (or - less risky to herself - shoot the legend in the back). I had a nasty experience like that a year and a half ago (including the parallel that he got sexually involved with a woman I was romantically attached to... and bad-mouthed me to her), which I've shared elsewhere on this board.

I also once had an idea for a new group on a social network site, but asked somebody else to create and moderate it. She did so, named me co-moderator, and then (when I showed displeasure with some racist comments that she'd made to me [in private, using a Skype connection]) demoted me to normal member, then kicked me out of the group, blocked me from VIEWING the group (and from viewing her personal profile). [This isn't a case of "only friends can view": she designated me personally as persona non grata] This was on a social network dedicated to World Peace - which is one of the reasons that her racist comments shocked me.

Kindly inform this young woman who wants to take over your territory that there's plenty of space on fb for her to start her OWN goddamned fucking poly group to socialise with. Gently explain to the 3 already-members who have requested her membership the reasons why you don't want her there and tell them that you won't take it as a personal slight if they wish to join her group AS WELL.

Originally Posted by LovingRadiance

[from midnightsun's open letter to the group] The vision the original members had for this group was a beautiful, peaceful, loving one full of enlightened, open-minded and respectful individuals. What few may realize is that it's not the "ousted" people who are hurt most when [] told they don't belong here. They will move on and continue down their original paths, taking with them the benefit of their experience, wisdom, compassion and enlightenment... and this community will be the poorer for it.

(my boldface added) I will suggest yet another parallel to you here. And this time it's of global significance. It is my utter conviction that if Jesus Christ were to return to Earth today, he would have as little as possible to do with the "Christian" Church as possible. [Either that or he'd march into a few churches and overturn tables.] He'd walk away and start a NEW [much smaller] group, "taking with them the benefit of their experience, wisdom, compassion and enlightenment"... not to mention Love, self- and mutual-respect, and rejection of prejudices.

Have a hug from me, Dear One!