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  #31  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:19 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Just wanted to say, it's not too late to send Shasti a nice handwritten note. Not just thank-you for the wedding gift, but a "thank you for being my metamour" sort of note.

People don't send cards and letters enough anymore. It always delights me to get one.
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  #32  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:46 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeraReed View Post
Just wanted to say, it's not too late to send Shasti a nice handwritten note. Not just thank-you for the wedding gift, but a "thank you for being my metamour" sort of note.

People don't send cards and letters enough anymore. It always delights me to get one.
Meera, that thought has popped into my head a few times. I think I may follow through and do it. Thanks for the nudge.
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  #33  
Old 01-08-2013, 02:27 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Default Don't trust your gut reaction

I spoke to my therapist about the instant reaction fallout with Twitch. I don't know if I can relay it properly here as some time has passed since our discussion, but basically we react on three combined levels; physiological, emotion, and past experiences. It's human nature to react instantly and we tend to believe that our reactions are pure and true, but they aren't. We aren't capable of being unbiased due to these influences. The key is to recognize this inability and trust that our partner's explanation is honest and true. It takes trust in your partner and it may go against what you know to be true in your head. But we view things through an emotional "me" filter that is clouded, so we have to trust that the other person is being honest and we have to let go of whatever thought our minds have glommed onto.

Good to know.

Here's another concept that we covered, but I want to go over it again with her - please feel free to expound on it here if you have a handle on this. You are not responsible for your partner's happiness/unhappiness or any other emotion they may be experiencing. Her argument was that you know it's solely the other person's thing because you can say the same thing to two people and their reactions are not the same (i.e., one person may have a strong reaction, but the other won't have a reaction at all, therefore, we know that it's how it's interpreted and on them.

I get it on some levels, but I'm not sure how to bring that into my treatment of my partner(s). I mean, asinine behavior is hurtful and if I chose to go there, then I go there knowing that I'm probably going to hurt someone, so doesn't that leave me with some responsibility for their emotional state?
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:19 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well... I'll try to give feedback then. And good for you for working with your therapist! That is commendable.

Quote:
You are not responsible for your partner's happiness/unhappiness or any other emotion they may be experiencing.
Quote:
I get it on some levels, but I'm not sure how to bring that into my treatment of my partner(s). I mean, asinine behavior is hurtful and if I chose to go there, then I go there knowing that I'm probably going to hurt someone, so doesn't that leave me with some responsibility for their emotional state?
You are not responsible for WHAT they feel. They feel whatever it is.

Is "I am responsible for taking care of my own health and well being, and for that of my partner" in your implied or stated covenant/agreement/standard of relationship? Do you give them the right to have "support/nurture" behavior from you?

If so, then you are responsible for your partner's HEALTH and WELL BEING. Your behavior contributes to that because your behavior helps create the environment for your shared relationship. Your behavior toward your partner includes support/nurture behavior from you should they need comforting. You are not responsible for WHAT they feel, but you are responsible for HOW you tend to them, when they feel whatever it is. Happy joys, or sad concerns that they might have -- hopefully you tend to them with loving kind behavior and not asinine behavior.

If you are the one being asinine? That is your BEHAVIOR. Not your feelings. If the person receiving this behavior is your partner, they probably hope that you choose to apply loving and kind behavior toward them rather than choosing asinine behavior toward them. They do not wish to be hurt by you, their partner.

If you do not make it a habit of choosing loving and kind behavior toward them, and choose asinine behavior to treat them with, they may feel yucky. In time, they may tire of feeling yucky and choosing "put up with it" type behavior. They might choose new behavior: ask you "Are you aware of what you are doing? And that is it asinine?" You risk being asked that in choosing asinine behavior toward partner.

Having learned behavior X is asinine, if you CONTINUE to apply that behavior? They may choose a new behavior for themselves so they can feel better and yucky free: Choose to break up with you. You risk that also.

If your relationship agreements with your partner include the responsibility of "I am responsible for tending my own and my partner's healths: mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health" then you are in violation of that agreement/trust. They have every right to dump you then for not honoring agreement.

So... basically what behavior you do is still up to you. You are always free to choose your conduct. But you are not free from consequences of your choice, and you are not free from the obligations, agreements and responsibilities you signed up to honor and tend when you signed up to be in relationship with your partner.

Where is the confusion? Is it that your partner is trying to make you responsible for how they feel? If your assess and find that your conduct toward them is appropriate, loving and kind -- then could it be that they may be avoiding personal responsibility?

Everyone has to hold their own baggage.

You can't MAKE your partner feel happy, or feel sad or feel whatever. But you CAN acknowledge that your behavior affects your partner in some fashion because you are in relationship. And choosing healthy, loving, kind behavior to treat them with ups the odds of them feeling appreciated and cared about by you. You can't MAKE them feel loved (maybe they suffer depression and that clouds their perception internally) but it ups the odds for them to be able to feel that because you help create the loving EXTERNAL environment in the relationship for them to feel it IN. (Whatever they have going on in their internal environment inside their own heads... that's not in your control. Things like depression could need a doctor's care.)

To be in right relationship with you partner, you honor the agreements you have made between you.

HTH!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-08-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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  #35  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Default Surprise, like a cupcake with a suprise filling

I'm not big on cupcakes most days. I have a friend that is known for her delicious cupcakes. She brings them to all of our social gatherings. If I can just get myself to go there I know that it's going to be a delight to my taste buds as she often has a surprise filling inside it or some other flavor explosion lying in wait. And yet, I hesitate. Do I want something so sweet? Do I want to indulge myself? How is this going to make me feel afterwards?

So, cupcakes and young(er) men seem to be something I like, but really hold myself back from. Is it that they're too sweet? Missing that layer of cynicism acquired over the years?

Last night I went on a first date that initially I had a lot of resistance to. He's 30. Going through a divorce. Father of a preschooler. So damn young! I'd blown him off on OKC, then felt guilt because of my age discrimination. He kept popping up from time to time with messages. I asked Twitch for his input. He read through is profile and then encouraged me to go out with him.

As I was getting ready for the date I started remembering the huge crush I had had when I was 30 on a guy who at the time was 47, my current age. And it helped me put things in perspective. I was plenty mature at 30 and I was totally digging this man who was 47. Nothing immature or lacking there in my attraction or his appeal. To this day my stomach does flip flops when I see a picture of him on fb that one of his daughters has posted.

I left for the date in a freer mindset, ready to allow myself to enjoy meeting this guy, this boy. I gave myself permission to ignore the internal dialog that was telling me I was a fool and people were going to be all judgey about me being out with someone 17 years my junior.

Let me just say, he's so freaking cute! Damn. But here's where it could get weird - he looks so much like my youngest son. I'm going to suppress that. LOL

We met at a restaurant for dinner and drinks. Conversation flowed, attraction flared. I wanted to leave by 9:30, so that I would be home by 10:00. I hadn't seen Twitch since Sunday morning and he'd only be home for the night and then gone the next night. I checked my watch at 8:30 and was relieved that it was still early. That was a good sign.

Nine-thirty came and we started to end our night, but it was hard to cut off the conversation. We finally walked out the door forty minutes later.

He walked me to my car and kissed me. I love kissing. I'm often disappointed. Too much this, not enough that. I'm sure you've been there. Let me just say I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED. Damn.

In retrospect I'm asking myself, "Am I nuts? Why in the world would I want to avoid that?!!!" What's wrong with sweet and a lack of cynicism? What's wrong with someone who hasn't built up walls (that I'm invariably going to find too daunting or just plain annoying)? What's wrong with immersing myself in youthful enthusiasm and optimism? His zest for life and loving was infectious. My optimistic nature resonated with his and while he's more spiritual than I am, I find myself alight after our first date.
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:38 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Well... I'll try to give feedback then. And good for you for working with your therapist! That is commendable.

You are not responsible for how they feel. But you are responsible for your partner's HEALTH and WELL BEING. Your behavior contributes to that because your behavior helps create the environment for your shared relationship.

Is "I am responsible for my own health, and for that of my partner" in your implied or stated covenant/agreement/standard of relationship?

You are the one being asinine? That is your BEHAVIOR. Not your feelings. If this person receiving this behavior is your partner, they probably hope that you choose to apply loving and kind behavior toward them rather than choosing asinine behavior toward them. They do not wish to be hurt by you, their partner.

If you do not make it a habit of choosing loving and kind behavior toward them, and choose asinine behavior to treat them with, they may feel yucky. In time, they may tire of feeling yucky and choosing "put up with it" type behavior. They might ask you if you are aware of what you are doing? And that is it asinine?

You risk that. Having learned behavior X is asinine, if you CONTINUE to apply that behavior -- They may choose a new behavior for themselves so they can feel better and yucky free: Choose to break up with you. You risk that also.

If your relationship agreements with your partner include the responsibility of "I am responsible for my own and my partner's healths: mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health" then you are in violation of that agreement/trust. They have every right to dump you then for not honor agreement.

So... basically what behavior you do is still up to you. You are always free to choose your conduct. You are not free from consequences of your choice.
So if you choose to treat partners with asinine behavior that you are aware of and know is asinine, be prepared for them to react with bad feeling then when you apply that behavior to them.

You can choose to continue it and risk them dumping you for treating them with less than loving kind behavior. Or you can choose to change your asinine behavior and avoid that risk.

Where is the confusion? Is it that your partner is trying to make you responsible for how they feel? If your assess and find that your conduct toward them is appropriate, loving and kind -- then could it be that they may be avoiding personal responsibility?

Everyone has to hold their own baggage.

You can't MAKE your partner feel happy, or feel sad or feel whatever. But you CAN acknowledge that your behavior affects your partner in some fashion because you are in relationship. And choosing healthy, loving, kind behavior to treat them with ups the odds of them feeling appreciated and cared about by you. You can't MAKE them feel loved (maybe they suffer depression for example and that clouds their perception) but it ups the odds for them to be able to feel that because you help create the loving environment in the relationship for them to feel it IN.

HTH!
Galagirl
Thank you, GG. I am going to read through this a couple of times. It makes sense, though. FYI: I haven't behaved in an asinine way. I was just wondering where a person's responsibilities for their partner's mental health lie. You've explained it very well. Thanks!
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:47 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I was still editing, sorry.

I figured you were not actually being asinine -- it was more like one of those " journal musing things." I get that.

But it resonated with me as one of those "Shiny Thought" exercises. So I responded. I may steal it for my OWN journal thread now! I dig Shinies.

GG
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  #38  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:58 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Default Is my polywog growing into a full fledge poly tadpole?

Twitch spent Sunday through Monday evening with Shasti. It was a test to see how I'd cope. I was anxious going into this. The last time he spent two days with her was last August and the wheels really came off the bus. I was scared. Scared for myself. That was the single most awful experience of my life. I don't ever want to feel that way again. To feel so much pain that suicide felt like a viable solution to end the pain.

I had been encouraging him to see if he could go down the 12-13th, but she had something planned, so it happened sooner than I was prepared for.

I pre-gamed as quickly as possible; I contacted several lovers to see what their availability was, but I didn't have much success. WP thought he might be able to come over for two hours in the afternoon and McCoy had his kids starting that day (50/50 shared custody), but he could get away for a couple of hours that night. I then asked a friend, Franki, if she wanted to hang out at one of our houses. We live close to an hour apart. We have gotten really close over the past year, but due to the distance between our homes we haven't really hung out together in this way. We've had Franki and Smatch, her hubby, up for dinner once, but I haven't been to her home yet.

In the end I declined the midday interlude with WP, spent the day with Franki, and two hours with McCoy. It had been a long time since McCoy and I had seen each other. (The holidays/family had interfered with our plans and we'd canceled a number of dates.)

It turned out to be a very nice day. Franki and I hung out, chatted, cooked, ate, chatted, ran to the city on a fruitless trip to buy material for a project I was contemplating, but then changed my mind about doing, returned to my house and chatted some more. It was relaxing and bonding.

Seeing McCoy after so much time renewed my interest, actually heightened my interest, in him. He's awfully good looking and fun to talk to. I'm seeing him on the 14th. He's cooking dinner for me.

The day ended and while I was aching from missing Twitch, I knew I was okay and that the day had been a success. I was a bit sad that he didn't return a text I sent at bedtime, but it wasn't a big deal.

Monday arrived. I had to return to work after having the previous week off. Why does the first day back have to be so painful? I think it's universal to wish for one more day following time off.

That morning I received a text from him. Part of the text was, "Had issues with the white elephant."

I sent him one back...
"...I'm sorry that the white elephant is still messing with you. If I'm part of the problem I'm sorry. You have my total permission to be doing what you're doing. Please don't feel I'm unhappy with you having sex/relationship with Shasti. I love you!"

Texts went back and forth. A reaffirmation of I love yous, I'll see you tonight, etc. I told him that I had a date with the kid, but that I hoped I'd be home by a decent time. "I miss you SO much."

Twitch: "Don't know when I am leaving. It will be after the traffic is done. I would guess 9 or 10 I would get home. Is that all right."

Me: "Yes. It's about the same time I expect to get home, too. I'm really glad I made plans for tonight now. It would have been a rough night otherwise."

Twitch: "Do I. Need to call it a day and leave at noon and come home?"

Me: "Nope. Just glad I'm going to have a full night. Kind of pleased that I'm hanging in there. Thanks for asking, though. That means a lot."

Twitch: "I guess I need to know if I need to end this today if you have to hard of a time with me coming down"

Me: "No, you don't. Not at all."

Twitch: "K"

Me: "It just gets long. But I'm okay."

A smattering of texts, but they held so much importance for us. He offered to end things even though Shasti means a lot to him. I was touched that he offered. That he'd choose me over her, but in my heart of hearts I didn't want that at all. I wasn't even expecting him to go there. I'm at a place now where I love that he has this person who brings so much into his life.

I didn't get home from my date until 11 PM. I was excited to see lights on in the house. I was worried that Twitch had given up and gone to bed, which I would likely have interpreted to mean that he was unhappy that I didn't get home an hour earlier like I said I was going to. But he was awake and he was in a great mood and we were both so happy to see each other.

We shared a bit about happenings in our lives over the past two days and then we hit the sheets. And it felt good on so many levels.

Last edited by Petunia; 01-08-2013 at 06:01 PM.
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2013, 05:31 PM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I was still editing, sorry.

I figured you were not actually being asinine -- it was more like one of those " journal musing things." I get that.

But it resonated with me as one of those "Shiny Thought" exercises. So I responded. I may steal it for my OWN journal thread now! I dig Shinies.

GG
Very cool. I'm glad it sparked you. And again, thanks!
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  #40  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:08 AM
Petunia Petunia is offline
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Default Do they know?

The alarm went off at 5 AM. I laid in bed for a good five minutes before dragging myself out of bed. My body was protesting the measly five hours of sleep I had gotten and I was reluctant to move away from Twitch's naked body and into the chilled room.

Shortly after I stepped from the shower, Twitch joined me. He'd already let the dogs out to potty. He actually didn't need to be up until shortly before six, so I was pleased that he'd decided to get up so that he could see me before I left. Taking care of the dogs was another nice thing he'd done to make my life easier. I felt blessed.

As he showered and I finished getting ready at the sink he shared more of the conversation that had transpired between him and Shasti. It had to do with a question that one of her friends asked her sister at her b'day bash last month. She asked if "Shasti was also dating 'that guy'?" (Twitch) I guess her sister coyly answered something along the lines of, "Maybe. Maybe not."

Twitch found this amusing. And as he puts it, "Any answer other than 'No' is a yes."

Astounding. They didn't really even talk to each other at the party. I have no clue what vibes this friend could have picked up on. For the first half of the party Twitch and I sequestered ourselves in a corner and had an in depth relationship talk. He was feeling low about his hidden status and I was bolstering his self-esteem. We were touching base and making sure the other was fine. Stuff like that. Very, very couple-ish. And Orville was filling the "date" role for Shasti. Baffling that anyone may have suspected.

I think Twitch is secretly pleased. And I pretty sure he's pleased that her sister is in the know. That's a big deal to him. He's been working on getting past his hurt that he has never been introduced to her friends.

Their conversation covered whether any of his family or friends knew about her. Friends; yes, most know. At least our closest ones. Family; he thinks his mother knows and he thinks his sister knows. Or that they at least suspect. His mother has called him when he's either been going to or from Shasti's city and he's said that he's driving to/from there and that he's visiting a friend. He may have even dropped her name. At Thanksgiving time while visiting his family he went shopping with his sister. He picked out Shasti's b'day gift and said it was for a friend. (He'd already told her that he and I were going to her b'day party.) When checking out his sister made a comment to the sales clerk that the scarves were for his girlfriend. When he gave her a "look" she said, "Well, she's a girl and she's your friend."

Shasti expressed that she's afraid that some of her friends may judge her or that she may lose them if they knew she was dating a married man. I get that, but I have a feeling that Twitch can't relate.

Hearing that he suspects his family knows that he has a girlfriend leaves me with mixed emotions. On some levels I hate that they may know, but at the same time it somewhat amuses me. It leaves me nervous. I wonder how they perceive our marriage and me. I ask myself why it matters to me - we rarely see them. But it does matter, although not greatly. I don't want them to think negative thoughts about me or our relationship and I fear that is how this relationship style is perceived by most. Maybe it would be better if we had an actual discussion with them so that we could explain it in a manner that shows our solidarity and doesn't leave them thinking that what we're doing is tawdry.

I don't say anything to Twitch about my uneasiness and sadness about his family suspecting. He's feeling too buoyed from his time with Shasti for me to cloud things. I also don't think it's something I need to burden him with. I wanted this relationship style. I led him into it. I need to put my big girl panties on and deal with this side of it, too.

Mostly, though, I'm feeling happy for Twitch that he's not so invisible in Shasti's life. His high spirits are contagious. Not to mention my own sense of euphoria over my surprisingly fun date with....he needs a name. One of the ladies he dates named him "Sexiest Man on Earth" in her blog. (Kind of freaked him out between that and her manic moods and rapidly increasing attachment to him.) I'm going to call him Thad. He looks like a Thad. Thick wavy, brown hair that needed a haircut four weeks ago. Strong square jaw. Beautiful eyes. Wide smile.

It's obvious that Twitch feels much more sure of his relationship with Shasti. He's more relaxed and he's sharing more than he's shared in months. I know that my restored sense of self and security in our relationship has played a big role in this and I'm pleased. Pleased that we've reached this point. Pleased that I feel so connected to my husband in this moment.

Last edited by Petunia; 01-09-2013 at 03:11 AM.
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