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  #11  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:08 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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It is the specificity that bothers her. If I say, "can you get that email in to me in the next week," she feels imposed upon. This is not only with the whole romance-thing...that is just a general tendency of hers.
She could feel whatever she feels and you could let her have the time space to feel it in.

If this is a general tendency of hers and you know it already? It comes back to you on accepting.
  • You could ACCEPT that you won't get responsiveness here in a romantic thing with her. And you learn to be ok with that and be prepared to deal in this sort of thing often then in polyship.
  • Or you could ACCEPT that you are not cool with that, and let the desire to have a romantic thing with her GO.

Talking about relationship structures with her seems premature if she's not even sure she wants to be in romantic relationship with you. Don't make her be your poly everything. Crush person, info person, etc. It could be overwhelming.

This part I do not understand:

Quote:
I don't fear a no, I just don't want to be the one that puts it in the ground.
How are you the one to put it in the ground?

People are compatible romantic partners or they not compatible romantic partners.

Not anyone's fault if their preferences and willingness-es do not happen to line up. That's why it is called DATING. The search for the compatible people. If it becomes not a runner for you, you say so. If it becomes not a runner for her, she says so. Don't overthink it.

If it turns out not to be a runner, it doesn't much matter which one acknowledges that it isn't. It just isn't. People can feel whatever it is they feel about that but it doesn't change the fact that it is not a runner.

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This will be difficult, as I see her every day and she is my closest friend. I had asked about her preferences for how I took the space I needed to do that, when I told her I was all crushy, and she asked me not to do it yet, until she could think about if she felt the same. Can do this, and will if she tells me no. Not sure I can do it if I have "but what if" hanging over my head.
That baffles me a bit too. You don't need her permission to tend to your own needs if this turns out to not be a runner for whatever reason regardless of who acknowledges it first. Yes, it won't be fun to feel like "party time whee!" But you can handle it and you will be ok. I have faith in you. You can get through this. Don't what if it up in your head. Try to keep it real and think facts:

"She's crafting a response, I will get it, I will digest it and then I will make the next choice for myself."

She made an agreement with you to keep you updated --let's hope she follows through.

Quote:
"Cut off BY her communication style." Radio silence and time in her head make me nuts.
Ah. Sorry about that. I missed the "BY" in there.

It makes me nuts too. That's why it's a point in my playbook. I want the right to responsiveness in romantic relationships. Don't plan to give me that right? Don't date me then. Keep it as casual friends.

She's writing a response to you right? Could wait til her written response, digest. Then if the letter is basically still more fence sitting or soft no-ing, could decide to cut it loose in favor of yourself -- and your long term well being.

You will be ok however it turns out. Remember to BREATHE.

I know this isn't fun to feel. Just do your best and remember to look out for you.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-04-2013 at 07:22 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:20 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
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You are very welcome for the response

I'm glad it helped in your thinking a little.

Let's see...

Ahh... that's important. She's mostly straight in practice, but not in belief. You know, I came out as a lesbian when I was 13. I remember brief, young thoughts of "why is this happening to me? why me?"... then shooting straight to acceptance. I think I had it easy. My girlfriend, on the other hand, has only just accepted her bisexuality at the age of 38, after two years with me. I thinks it is much more difficult for some people than we may realise. This could be (might not be, but could) a very big part of CG's hesitance and struggle.

Quote:
I think this is mostly frustrating because structure in our long friendship hasn't set of her need to recoil, but this seems to be triggering all kinds of new responses...even when it isn't *about* the crushy stuff.
So, it's spilling over, basically? She's showing signs of recoiling, even when it's not about the 'crush bubble'. That's an important indicator that she needs space. When someone pushes me and I start to feel that I don't know what I want, I bury my head in the sand and avoid that *person* - not just the talk about our connection. Even friendly hangouts and chats with that person feel stressful to me. The more they ask, the further away I want to get. As I said before, it's not nice behaviour and I wish I could change it - but it seems to be something inside me. I could absolutely be projecting - but CG seems to be acting the exact way that I do when I'm trying to say "please give me space".

Quote:
This is a good way to look at it. Do you think a "no structure when it comes to the romance/ish stuff but for work and our just hanging out we could schedule some things so I know when I'll be seeing you?" would be a compromise that would work?
To be honest? I don't think it would. For me, structure is structure. I hate any kind of structure. I love making plans with friends, but end up feeling resistant when the actual time comes around. I hate 9-5 work; I like to work at 2am, 6am, 12pm, whenever the mood strikes. My best friend is exactly like me - we don't text each other for weeks, we cancel plans to meet up 90% of the time, we are flaky with each other constantly; yet we love each other to death and are closer to each other than we are with any other friend. Why, when we can't commit to each other, do we consider each other a 'best' friend? Simply, because we are similar. We get each other. We work well. My ex-secondary needed structure. She needed to know when we would next meet, when we would next talk. We talked about it and she tried to make the same compromise that you are (sweetly) trying to make. She told me that she'd be ok with the sexual/romantic feelings to just happen; but she needed structure on the friendship part. I tried to give it to her. But it just didn't work. The more she pushed, the more I withdrew; the more I withdrew, the more she pushed. It destroyed our friendship, because she was hurt by me and I was completely put off her. Two opposites can be great for each other - you can give her structure, she can give you flexibility. But, sadly, more often than not, this kind of personality difference gets in the way. You shouldn't have to be less structured - it makes you feel uncomfortable. She shouldn't have to be more structured - it makes her feel uncomfortable.


Quote:
That is what I have done. She has said that she's alright with asking general questions (about poly, about how her relationships are structured, etc) and with me talking to primary BF. She also offered to attend one or two of the 6 sessions of the 6 week poly workshop I signed up for. That is more than enough for me on the "curshy" end of things, for now.
That sounds good

Quote:
It's just...I'm feeling a little surprised that this seems to have had more of a confusing impact on my friendship with the poly person than on my marriage to to monogamous one.
I can understand this and why you are surprised about it. Logic would say that it would cause more trouble between you and your main partner. I believe there are four things that can make or break a friendship - sexual involvement, living together, working together and money. One of my dearest friends is the polar opposite to me. She mocks my flakiness and I mock her military-level need to plan. I don't feel *as* close to her as I do my best friend, but for a close friendship, it works. We are SO opposite that, in a friendship realm, it's an entertaining difference. If she became my romantic partner? We'd drive each other nuts. If we lived together? We'd probably never speak again. If we worked together? Actually, we have, and it didn't work out well!

In my opinion, if you mix sex, money, cohabitation or work with a close friend and it goes wrong, it *does* affect the friendship. It's not working smoothly between you romantically, so that *is* affecting your friendship. It's because you're seeing sides of each other that aren't working outside of a friendship box. Does that make sense?

I'm not saying that *you* should change, or behave differently. But... if this helps... there is one tried and tested technique I know of when dealing with people non-committal, flaky, independent, unstructured people. The technique is simple. Let go. For her to give you what you want (structure) she has to *do* something. For you to give her want she wants (no structure), you have to *not* do something. That is the only difference. I'm not saying that it's easier for you to *stop* doing something than it is for her to *start* - but it could be an option. If you are capable (and it's totally understandable if you aren't) of giving her complete space, on friendship too, and asking nothing at all, you may very well discover that she starts actually giving you more structure. This works for me, at least, with others. If you pin a butterfly down, what will they be thinking about? Flying away. If you let it fly around, what will they be thinking of? Coming back.

It might be that if you test that technique out for a little while, it will work wonders. It might be that your personalities will only work in a friendship. Either way, I do think you'll be able to (at the very least) stub out some of the problems by accepting her personality and hoping that she accepts yours.
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Me: (29f) open poly
In a long-distance relationship with GF (39f)
Dating Descartes in my home country (27f)



“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without." ~ Buddha
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:31 PM
Katrpillar Katrpillar is offline
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Hi there,

I am someone who takes a long time to process changes in my emotional life so I thought I would reply. You may even say I think in paisley too (or fractals ;-)

I need a lot of alone calm time to feel balanced and not overloaded. I keep learning new skills which helps. But it doesn't change my fundamental desire and tendency to take a slow time with difficult/interesting/new life changes. If CG is like me she may be simmering on a lot of emotional stuff at once including the changes in your friendship.

Since your friendship is a potentially happy new thing that hasn't taken solid shape yet it may be lower in urgency for her compared to her current marriage concerns as previously mentioned by you (I think) and other secondary relationships ending. Perhaps she is just ruminating on your newly expressed interest for a while. This it what I would understand her comments to you to mean. She may also feel strong caution to move slowly with you rather than damage your friendship (and marriage) as you potentially alter/open your marriage for the first time while exploring your new feelings in a way that hasn't been okay or possible before. That would/could take me a long time to consider.

When something big is going on in my emotional life it is very difficult for me to process anything else that also takes a lot of mental bandwidth to consider. With all of the challenges going on for her currently (not to mention the holidays and school stuff on top of it) perhaps she is overwhelmed with having to maintain everything. Perhaps she is currently emotionally saturated and needs some dead air not to process and to just be while she gets rebalanced.

She may be interested in developing your shared relationship further but not be able to process any big changes to it now in her current emotional place. She may also feel afraid of losing your friendship if you decide to emotionally withdraw from her for a while if she says no to you, or if you get hurt somehow, or if she can't fulfill your possibly shifting needs and expectations of her beyond what your friendship already defined.

Right NOW it could be that what she may really need is a good friend (albeit could be flirty friendship may be perfect) as she heals up her marriage. Her actions of breaking off with her secondary relationships makes me think this. Plus, I think you have mentioned that her DH was not too happy for GC to be considering a new relationship with you at this time.This could be part of her hesitancy to move forward. Adding more people to a relationship dynamic that is not in a good place can be problematic. While you and your DH sound good CG and her DH don't.

Is it possible CG just has a lot going on in her life currently but doesn't want to lose you as a friend or possible crush?

I hope my own inward internal thoughts/ideas help Please dismiss what doesn't fit.

Katrpillar
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2013, 04:02 AM
UpsideDown's Avatar
UpsideDown UpsideDown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
If this is a general tendency of hers and you know it already? It comes back to you on accepting.

* You could ACCEPT that you won't get responsiveness here in a romantic thing with her. And you learn to be ok with that and be prepared to deal in this sort of thing often then in polyship.
* Or you could ACCEPT that you are not cool with that, and let the desire to have a romantic thing with her GO.
Fair enough. I've said already, that what surprised me was that this minor thing became a huge issue for her in a non-crushy part of our relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
This part I do not understand:
"I don't fear a no, I just don't want to be the one that puts it in the ground."

How are you the one to put it in the ground?
People are compatible romantic partners or they not compatible romantic partners.
Hmm. I feel that if I'm the one to say no, I'll be regretful and always wonder if I did the right thing. This will bother me, long term, and more than this current confusion and frustration are bothering me at present. I'd wonder if I just didn't give enough space, or didn't stick around long enough. Right now it is my prefernce that she choose whether this takes off (now or in a few months).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
That's why it is called DATING. The search for the compatible people.
That is, indeed, what dating is. I am not searching for compatible people. I am interested in how this plays out with her...no more or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
That baffles me a bit too. You don't need her permission to tend to your own needs if this turns out to not be a runner for whatever reason regardless of who pulls the plug on it. Yes, it won't be fun to feel like "party time whee!" But you can handle it and you will be ok.
I am not generally a person who takes my discomforts, and deems them overriding needs. If I do need to put this to rest for my own sanity, at some point, I will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
It makes me nuts too. That's why it's a point in my playbook (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794). I want the right to responsiveness in romantic relationships. Don't plan to give me that right? Don't date me then. Keep it as casual friends.
As I do not date, I do not have a playbook. This learning-as-you-go thing is hard, and no doubt contributing to some of the stress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
She's writing a response to you right? Could wait til her written response, digest. Then if the letter is basically still more fence sitting or soft no-ing, could decide to cut it loose in favor of yourself -- and your long term well being.
She is, and I will do what I can with whatever she writes.
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29, married to DH, the best guy in the world. 2 kids, dog, house with fence.
Developed a fast and accidental crush on then-best-friend, CG (cute-girl) and world fell apart after telling said girl. Came here for advice and info in case it became a thing. It didn't, but the friendship exploded. Turned world a bit upside-down, hence the moniker. ::sigh::
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