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  #281  
Old 12-12-2012, 07:01 AM
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I guess you are right, but things don't work that way around my family. There has never been any 'outsider' to any meeting at all. Just us. I would receive some irritated looks if I asked to bring someone with me, that isn't related in any way and not official partner-material. I guess, I need to wait for an own celebration to come over the course of the next year and just act on my feelings in regard to both of them and see what happens. But that is something I will simply wait for and see how it goes. For now, I will shove my wishes away. We will spend Christmas together and new year and that's what matters most to me.

______________

Another interesting development on the baby-front. There is still no positive notice so far (we are taking our time as it seems *sigh*) but yesterday something unpleasant happened. Lin and I had a condom accident. Neither he nor I (nor Sward) ever experienced this and it automatically brought up the question “Oh dear, well then ... ?” Chances are given, that this may lead to perception. So I talked to Sward in the evening.

He was quite relaxed and said that if that is what should happen, then it's OK and he won't be upset by the outcome. When I offered to take the morning-after pill, he even was kind of upset and told me that it doesn't matter and that this (potential) child deserves to live, no matter who the biological father may be. Because both would be father the moment it was there. Such a relieve. I had been thinking of a (child-) lifelong resentment in the back of someone's mind, if things wouldn't go according to our planned approach. Seems I was over-thinking a bit there.

When I talked to Lin later that evening (as he was curious how things went with Sward) there was such a positive outlook on his part regarding a biological child as well as the possibility of a child in our life in general. When we started this 'project' some months ago I noticed minor reluctance and insecurities coming from him. No major ones, he was about 80% positive that this was what he wanted and that he felt able to handle all of it. This seems to have changed without me noticing. He is really looking forward to being a father in the nearer future.
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  #282  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:47 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
I guess you are right, but things don't work that way around my family. There has never been any 'outsider' to any meeting at all. Just us. I would receive some irritated looks if I asked to bring someone with me, that isn't related in any way and not official partner-material.
Well, who writes the rules for these things and are they written in stone? Just because it was always that way doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. If you are part of the family, your wishes and desires are just as important as anyone else's. I bet there are relatives of yours who might also wish they could bring a boyfriend or girlfriend, but they don't because no one else does. Why not break precedent and bring both Lin and Sward. Talk to other cousins, relatives, etc., see if they want to bring people, too, and encourage them to. It's a new generation, right? Time for a change!
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  #283  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:40 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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It's so very nice to read about how chill and positive things are with you guys. You're building such a lovely family and I can't wait to read about the newest addition.
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  #284  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Well, who writes the rules for these things and are they written in stone? Just because it was always that way doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. If you are part of the family, your wishes and desires are just as important as anyone else's. I bet there are relatives of yours who might also wish they could bring a boyfriend or girlfriend, but they don't because no one else does. Why not break precedent and bring both Lin and Sward. Talk to other cousins, relatives, etc., see if they want to bring people, too, and encourage them to. It's a new generation, right? Time for a change!
You may be right, but I just ask myself: Why complicate things just because of my own needs/wants that are so subjective and selfish? I can't think of a 'normal' friend who would enjoy being with a whole set of family and relatives of mine. And I can't think of a reason to bring any to those gatherings, to be honest. Most of my relatives are older. There are maybe 6 or 8 cousins who are about my age, the rest is more around the age of my parents, except my siblings no younger ones at all (aside from the little children and kids). I don't feel like it's my place to ask for this, which may be the root of my ponderings altogether. I just know, that this will stir some uproar and cause unrest (minor or major ... I don't know, but I expect the latter). That's why I am so cautious.

I came to the conclusion that this will need some time and that it's mainly me who needs it to prepare myself for this.

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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
It's so very nice to read about how chill and positive things are with you guys. You're building such a lovely family and I can't wait to read about the newest addition.
Glad to hear that the impression we give is so positive, Annabel I am, as well, really curious when our next 'addition' will enter the stage and who it will be
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  #285  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:54 AM
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Nothing much is happening at the moment. I finally found some time to read for fun over the weekend. I know why I avoided doing this for so long: I am such an addict. I couldn't stop once I got into the story and now I am waiting for the rest to be delivered because I instantly ordered the rest of the series. *sigh* Which will be a Christmas present … another week before I will be able to read on …

I neglected Sward and Lin over this book totally. Luckily I am a fast reader, it took me Sunday, Sunday night and Monday to finish it, and I never did as much as avert my eyes when they spoke to me Still a bit sleep-deprived and kind of out of time today, but reality got me back ^.^

Saturday was great, the 30th birthday of my cousin. It was fun to see all the folks again and talk to them. My aunt (who lost her husband last year) has come back to life and was honestly having fun, even though she seemed a bit strained because of the divorce of her oldest son and the plans for shared/divided Christmas between him, his wife and her grandchild. But they are handling things with care and the child seems to be relaxed even though Christmas will be different this year for him.

Along the lines of her questioning me about my exams and future prospects we talked about what we plan to do if there would be the possibility of a child during next year. I said that we had to move in this case and that I would postpone my start into the working life for half a year. She caught the moving thing and asked if our roommate couldn't move out in that case. I just smiled (along with my BiL who was grinning from one ear to the other) and said that he was unlikely to ever move out again and that all of us would move together. She laughed and said: “You got accustomed to him for sure!” We left it at that.

We talked about the next cousin get together and decided that we would like to host it at our place (my siblings and I still live on the same property). My sister wasn't pleased by the way the last meeting had taken place (some cousins haven't been invited, the organizers forgot about them) and wants to take things into her own hands this time. Seems like my opportunity to introduce Lin to the family arose sooner than I expected. Yeay We will see how it goes in some months' time.
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  #286  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:07 AM
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Default Clash of personalities

[Nothing poly related at all, just some random thoughts I didn't know where else to put.]

As I just read about the difficulties another couple is experiencing and because I could so picture myself in this situation if things go wrong one way or the other, my thoughts were circling around it for a while. Heavily circling, all the 'what if's' coming hard at me. I know that this destructive habit isn't anything I should hold up to in any way, but I can't control it. So I thought about all the little possible scenarios and such. I am still unable to find some rest (partly because of this matter, partly because of my legs, they are hurting tonight) and may just write about it to clear my head.

The main problem is, that I can picture Lin in a position, where he would say some really hurtful things. Cold, full of anger and hate. Assuming that things would be at a final turn for the worst, in some extreme situation between us. And I am not used to people like that. At least not some that are dear to me. During our first argument I was dumbstruck how fierce he was. Regardless of the real problem underneath, I have a hard time coping with his way of expressing frustration and anger. I am still thinking about this confrontation from time to time, because I don't really know how to react to this.

I don't have this problem with Sward, when he gets frustrated or angry I know that the hurtful things he says aren't meant that way, he is way more 'kind' when being 'hateful'. But Lin … he is aggressive and intense, a real hothead and he exactly knows what he is saying. And in that exact moment, he means it. I have never been with someone like that and I am still at a loss how to deal with this, without loosing my balance like I did the first time. (Still thinking of it is obviously not dealing with the matter in a efficient way )

I guess, the main problem is that I am not able to picture myself in this situation. I can imagine Lin hating me, but I can't imagine me hating him. That's where the hurt comes from. I couldn't stand him turning cold now, I can't imagine a given situation when I would. And I guess as well, the reason why I do this is because I feel kind of insecure. But I don't really know why. There should be a reason why I feel this way, but I haven't found it yet. There should be a reason WHY I can imagine him hating me at all. My head is strange tonight, it seems.
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  #287  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:39 PM
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A few thoughts:

You seem to go back and forth on whether you're upset by the possibility that he would feel hateful thoughts vs the possibility that he would express them. Maybe it's both, but I wonder if it would be helpful to think about them separately.

To me it seems like you can imagine him hating you because you think you saw a glimpse of it. Do you think it could help to have him explain more what his emotions were like during that past fight, not focusing on the topic of the disagreement but on his experience of the emotions, so you could understand it better?

I remember when my son was small(er), there were times that I was so furious with him that I felt that I hated him, and that during such moments it was impossible for me to be aware of love as well. This surprised my husband, who was still aware of love even in his moments of anger, and it disturbed him a bit too. Perhaps he thought I could not truly love my son and feel this, but I did. Perhaps this is a little parallel to your situation?

You mention insecurity, as if the fact that he can feel something that looks like hate means he doesn't actually love you; the alternative may be that he feels so strongly for you that the idea of loss is more than he can deal with, and his response is anger.

It reminds me of parts of a book I read recently, called "Mistakes were made (but not by me)", on how we tend to defend ourselves against things that make us feel bad. (The author wrote a interesting book on anger as well). If you stay really stuck on this idea maybe it'd be something to explore.
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  #288  
Old 12-31-2012, 06:15 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to respond to this fallout of a nightly funk. I think you touched on some important bits.

Quote:
To me it seems like you can imagine him hating you because you think you saw a glimpse of it.
Totally right, I feel that I saw a glimpse and am unsure how to handle the 'whole' if it was ever thrown right into my face. We already talked about his emotions after the fight and he simply explained that this was his outlet, that he is indeed nearly steaming with anger in those moments and that he on the other hand never met a person who is as calm as me. All his previous girlfriends were similar to him, throwing things at him when being mad, screaming, being even more furious than he was. One of his first comments after the fight was “One can't quarrel with you.” and it was kind of frustrated as well. It's something perfectly normal to him. (Same is true for his family, they are really loud and emotional when they disagree or when they are happy with something.)

Quote:
I remember when my son was small(er), there were times that I was so furious with him that I felt that I hated him, and that during such moments it was impossible for me to be aware of love as well. This surprised my husband, who was still aware of love even in his moments of anger, and it disturbed him a bit too. Perhaps he thought I could not truly love my son and feel this, but I did. Perhaps this is a little parallel to your situation?
This would be what is going on in our case. I can't 'hate' that way. I can't be furious when I am angry, not in this irrational, emotional way. Every moments of our fight I was unable to forget the 'love-element' of our overall relationship, while he seemed to explode into a person I didn't know. That's part of the reason why I feel insecure, I guess. That there is more to him than I know and I wouldn't be able to handle it if he showed me. I can't come up with a way to manage it, because I feel at a disadvantage. How to answer to someone who is 'hitting' you when you want to 'stroke' him? (Not literally, of course, but that was the first fitting example I could think of.)

Maybe it's just too new for me and I will kind of get used to it over the years. It isn't something daily by far (just happened once until now) and maybe I am overreacting.

Quote:
the alternative may be that he feels so strongly for you that the idea of loss is more than he can deal with, and his response is anger.
I don't know how much truth is inside this assumption, I will ask when we talk about this topic again. Partially it is true that he wouldn't be able to argue with someone not as dear to him as me in such a way. But I don't know if it is because of a fear of loss.

Getting to know each other is a real slow process in this case as it seems Thanks again, wildflowers, for giving some perspective.
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  #289  
Old 01-02-2013, 06:35 PM
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There a new year has arrived and I am uneasy as always when there is some kind of real or just felt change. I just don't like it *sigh* Unsatisfied with whatever there is in the back of my mind. Maybe I haven't got enough to do and to occupy myself with, which will change soon hopefully. I am missing something without knowing what; I am restless.

I have spoken with Lin about the previous topic, read the post out aloud (translated, of course) even. It wasn't the best idea, as it seemed. He felt guilty of having a trait to him that almost made me fear the next controversy between us. I guess this was the best we could do, we talked about how different we just are and how different our upbringing had been, how our family and surrounding have moulded our ways of handling stress, finding solutions for problems at hand or voicing our anger and frustration.

He told me a little anecdote about a verbal duel him and his father were having once. In the end they stood nose to nose screaming at each other without anyone giving way. I couldn't even imagine a situation when I would find myself in this position with anyone. In retrospect I asked him if he felt that I had 'wounded' him in our quarrel with any word or claim I made. After some pondering he said no, I didn't. That would be the main difference, I guess. I cannot hate or hurt when I love, it seems, even when I am frustrated and furious. Maybe I am too logical, maybe to cool headed, maybe not emotional enough. I don't know.

We will see how this develops. The best outcome would be that we may keep everything in mind when something like a quarrel will happen again. Maybe it is just a question of 'getting used' to it on both sides.

New Year's Eve was quiet. A bit boring even, but none of us had the wish to attend some greater gathering or party. Therefore we sat with whine, cheese, grapes and bread and quietly welcomed the new year. As I left our Christmas, the only interesting thing that happened, was around the visit of my 'in Laws', who came for coffee and cake and talked lively with Lin as well, when they were there. Nothing I will read too much into, but it was nice to notice how well they got along. Not knowing anything about the nature of our relationship(s), of course, but maybe I will be lucky to witness this later on as well with everything on the table.

Lin and I will visit his father's 60. birthday in two weeks. I am looking forward to this, because his whole family will be present and I only know his parents, siblings and grandmother so far. We won't talk about Sward, as far as I was informed, because his sisters are weary that this may cause some problems for them along the relatives and who else may hear of it. No problem for me, they have every right to have their surrounding undisturbed. I will hardly see those people again any time soon, at all. But I love family gatherings and especially after the last quarrel-topic Lin and I discussed, I am curious how the atmosphere will be and if I find it so different from the vibe I get around mine or Sward's family.
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  #290  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:33 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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It helps to understand HOW people respond when they fight and family background plays a big part in that. In my house, I'm more like Lin, the emotions tend to hit like a freight train and explode. My husband is much more passive aggressive (which I never understood until recently) and neither of us did well at reading each other, especially during a disagreement. When the fight starts, I'm usually the one yelling and screaming and overcome with anger and hurt, so by the time my husband hits the point of screaming, I instantly go completely calm (mostly because he is hit the point of absolute irrationality).

Studying up on different types of communications and learning about "non-violent" communications helped us a great deal in being able to deal with the other. This is something you can do together. He is used to people fighting "his way" and equally doesn't fully understand how you don't respond the way he is used to. It's likely that he can see it as a sign that you don't care as much or such, because you don't have that sudden flash of emotion. Keep talking about it, but in small doses. Also don't make him feel that only he has to change to match what you want. Neither way is inherently WRONG and there is always things each of you can do to fight better.
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