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  #51  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:27 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I guess I think its good the onus is on him to not ask if he doesn't want to know, and not on me to have to be dishonest. Would you find yourself in a pickle if it comes out later you weren't totally honest with C?

Not sure if you're going to be comfortable with a long term DADT about mentioning dates ahead of time, (I can't remember how long you've been seeing everybody!) but I hope C is working on finding a way to be OK hearing about things. Have an awesome weekend too
well..... when I read this I was going to reply "I won't find myself in a pickle" but in the end I found myself in a huge pickle, so I'll share the story here.
(MrB and I have been seeing each other a little more than a year, C and I have been seeing each other a little less than a year).

So I did not tell C anything and went away on my weekend, which was totally awesome... MrBrown is such an amazing guy, his honesty, authenticity and integrity completely blow me away every time I see him. He doesn't do things the conventional way, and it took me some time to get used to that, but now that I have shed my expectations I can see him for what he is en really enjoy everything he has to bring me in this relationship. He is a true inspiration to me and I always come back from seeing him energized, inspired, feeling free and strong.

So when I came home it felt so strange not to be able to share the fact I'd been away with C and I sent him a short email, telling him where I'd been and that it had felt wrong to hide it from him. He did not reply, until later that night, and then he told me he was upset. We texted back and forth because it was really late, but the next day we talked on the phone, he was still very upset and said some things that were pretty hurtful to me.

Because, I completely understand jealousy.. feeling insecure, alone, etc. I feel it with Ren, I feel it with MrB (not when he's with the GF he already had when I met him, but sometimes when he's with the woman he met this summer). I've felt it with C when he went on dates. So really, I understand it when someone says "I felt some jealousy". What I could not understand was how he made it about me, basically it felt like he was judging me for my behavior, 'going from one man to another' which made him feel 'like he did not matter' and did not value our relationship. I was supposed to go see him later that week but he said ' don't bother, I don't want you to come and see me when you've just been with someone else, it makes me wonder what this is all worth'.

I was hurt, and then angry. I went to see him that week anyway, and we had a very strained and difficult evening, where he apologized for what he had said, but there was still so much distance.

It was like I was looking at myself through his eyes and I did not like what I saw.. a flippant, superficial woman who wanders from one guy to the next, hungry for love and attention.

I went to see him again this weekend and things were slightly better. We agreed that I will tell him about dates with MrB ahead of time from now on. And that he will tell me about his dates. I don't want the false feeling of security anymore, I want to face my fears.

We had a good weekend together, but I do feel something has shifted - yet again. I feel less committed to him, it's hard to say why. I think it was the feeling of being claimed, restricted, that threw me off balance.

It's true: I have a husband, another lover, a non-sexual BF, and a couple of guys with whom I flirt and sometimes dream about the possibilities of taking things further. Besides that, I have a very active and busy social life with lots of friends. C. has only one partner, me, and not that many friends. But I don't, and should not, feel guilty about that - his life is his responsibility, and he has to build it, just like I build mine.

In a way, I feel pretty good now. Free. No one will tell me what to do or who I can or cannot see... that's a feeling that is pretty strong now.
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early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #52  
Old 12-28-2012, 03:44 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
So when I came home it felt so strange not to be able to share the fact I'd been away with C and I sent him a short email,
The word order in this sentence confused me, so I'm just clarifying it:

So when I came home it felt so strange not to be able to share with C the fact I'd been away with MrB, so I sent C a short email
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  #53  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:53 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeraReed View Post
The word order in this sentence confused me, so I'm just clarifying it:

So when I came home it felt so strange not to be able to share with C the fact I'd been away with MrB, so I sent C a short email
Yes, of course. I knew it was a bit muddled when I wrote it but was too lazy to rewrite!

The last days of the year always have me a little pensive, and this year even more so. So, SO much has happened this past year. A year ago, I had just met MrBrown and thought he would become my BF, someone I would see often and regularly, who would become a part of my life. He did become a part of my life, in a very important way, but so different from what I was expecting in those last days of December 2011.

And last year, I had not even met C yet, and he is now the one who is my BF, a regular part of my life, who hangs out with me and Ren, who has met most of my friends. My toothbrush is in his bathroom and I know in which freezer drawer he keeps the bread. I love him, and yet the domesticity of our relationship is starting to make me itchy. And then I feel so ungrateful.

But then I look at my life and the path I'm taking, and I know I'm not ready yet. So much more to discover. So many more fears to overcome. And I'm not a bad person for wanting more connections.

The most important thing that happened to me this year was the shift from 'we' to 'I' that I talked about in this thread. This journey is about me, and that may seem selfish, or sound arrogant or self centered. To me it sounds liberating.

Many years ago, Ren and I met on New Years Eve. This year there will be no parties, the two of us will stay at home, watching movies, drinking a really good bottle of champagne, eating some nice food, celebrating our love and our life together and honoring the way we have learned to let each other be an 'I' while we are also still very much a 'we'. I love him so much - he is my friend, my lover, he knows me inside out.

I am excited about the new year and the adventures it will bring. Have some new work projects I want to start, ideas, inspiration. Haven't felt that way about work in a long time. A date with Knight planned for January, some interesting developments on OKC, CuteBiGuy who is just waiting for me to tell him I want a date. Life is good.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #54  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:17 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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It's been awhile since I updated. Nothing major going on, but lots of little things that cause little shifts and things to think about.

C is dating... he's been seeing a woman for a couple of months now. She is mono, and single, and wants to be mono with him. He says he's not in love, that he likes hanging out with her, but that he would not give me up for her because he loves me and wants to be with me. We had a couple of amazing date-weekends with great connection, lovely talks, togetherness and great sex. I have no doubts about his feelings for me and no reason to doubt him. Yet. Yet! She's in his city (I'm 2 hours away), he can see her every day, she wants him, she's available. She said she doesn't want to have sex with him as long as he's also sleeping with me. Is it weird that that is making me nervous...

I'm going through these cycles where I get upset and anxious about this relationship he has with her and where it's going. And then he reassures me and I am reassured. But its getting a little exhausting. If only I could be more zen about it, letting him be, letting him explore this..
I had a good talk with Ren yesterday and I was very mature about it and said ' well if C want to break up with me and be with her so be it'... but when I woke up this morning I was having quite the panic attack (I think he was with her last night) and not feeling so mature at all. Ugh. How DOES one get to that point of compersion where you can actually let the other person be free... without fear of abandonment?

In other news, I'm seeing BGuy (formerly known as CuteBiGuy) tonight. We've been emailing the last few months. I sort of left it up to him, because i had said I wasn't sure if I wanted to add another sexual partner to my life, and I thought that if the sex was mandatory for him he could just decide to not contact me again. But he staid in touch, writing me these beautiful, witty, funny and clever emails every now and then, always so respectful, saying that he would like to see me and talk to me without any expectations about where it would go (and at the same time, making no secret of the fact that he is attracted to me). I don't know, I'm a little nervous.. looking forward to seeing him again, but not sure how to broach the subject about how far I want to go. I could see us kissing or making out but def no PIV sex... or even getting naked.. but it's not something you say before you make a first move right? Oh boy I do tend to make my own life pretty complicated....
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #55  
Old 02-14-2013, 09:21 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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So I arrive at BGuy's place. It's dark, messy and smoky and I like it. We sit at his kitchen table for a while, and talk. We instantly tumble into this deep and clever conversations.. he is so, so smart. He gets up to go to the bathroom and I say 'can I go sit on your sofa?' he says 'sure'. When he comes back I'm curled up on his sofa, taken off my shoes, and he says 'I pictured you sitting there, a number of times'.

He asks for my feet and starts giving me a nice, friendly footrub. I say I can't have sex with him. I say: 'but there's stuff we can do in the realm between footrubs and sex'. He says like what? I say 'like kissing' and I pull him over and then starts the hottest and best make-our session I've ever experienced... I think we kissed for almost 2 hours, only taking little breaks to sip some wine or to have flashes of intense conversation. We keep our clothes on, but there's a lot of touching and it's hothothot!!! It's been a long time since I've been so turned on by just kissing, maybe it is the knowledge that this is all we will do tonight, and the fact that I told him this and he's not expecting more, which makes me so relaxed.
God I love what happens when that shift from conversation to lust manifests.. it's like a layer is shed, you see someone in a different light, and you trust them to show yourself in a different light. Love love love the look on someones face when they are lost in lust, and knowing that's it's my body and my touch that is making this happen.

Oh my it was nice

I sent him an email a couple of days later and told him: this is my proposal: I want to get naked with you and do stuff that will be fun for both of us, but, for now, anything but actual fucking. If you are ok with this, I'd love to see you again.

We agreed to see each other in a couple of weeks

I think, after 4 years of poly, this is the first truly playful, no strings attached, but very respectful, fun and open relationship I've encountered. I can see us having lots and lots of fun, without me getting anxious in between dates.

I realized something today - from the very beginning when I started dating (while poly) I always imagined every guy, even the ones I had one night stands or casual sex with, to become the love interest that I was looking for. I would always picture myself in their lives, hanging out, meeting each others friends, becoming part of each others lives. Cooking together, eating together, watching movies together, going away on weekends, taking long hikes... .
I think BGuy is the very first connection I made with who I don't feel this. I don't want to do anything with him except talk, drink wine and make out.

Maybe I've finally grasped the FWB concept?
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #56  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:57 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Off to be with C for a couple of days. A going to tell him about BGuy, and I'm sure he has stuff to tell me, too.. about the mono woman he's dating (have to come up with a name for her I guess!)

Feeling anxious and nervous. Not sure why. I suppose some of it has to do with the fact that my life is so incredibly busy with so many people - lovers, friends, work - and it seems there is less and less time for ME. I would so love to be on my own for while.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #57  
Old 02-18-2013, 12:00 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Accept, accept, accept. That I cannot be in control. That I have to trust my loves.

It's only my own conduct I can control. I can choose to be anxious or not. I can choose to give the fact that I am insecure, power over my feelings. I can choose to relax, really relax, and fall into the enormous pool of love, desire and affection that is just waiting for me to dive into.

This, the major thing I have to learn, and what a nice tool poly is...
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #58  
Old 02-20-2013, 02:43 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Spent a long weekend with Curlz. The first day was fabulous. Talking, eating, drinking, reconnecting, lots of fun in the bedroom. I told him about BGuy and he told me about his.. yeah I guess I could say she's his GF now, so let's give her a name... Molly. All was well, we had great, open conversations about everything. I was genuinely happy for him that he is spending time with someone he likes and who likes him. But, we did not really get into specifics. The next night we did and it all went downhill.

He started off by saying he had something awkward to discuss with me. He said 'I haven't slept with Molly yet...' and I said 'But didn't she say she doesn't want to sleep with you when you're also in a relationship with me?'
He said 'Yeah, initially.. but it seems like she could be open to sharing me. But she doesn't want to use condoms. So because of my agreement with you, I'm going to have to choose. Unless you are willing to reconsider our agreement'. (We're fluid bonded).
I said, 'No I'm not.. when you have unprotected sex with her, we have to go back to using protection'.

So we got into a lengthy discussion about trust etc, and I had a hard time convincing him how stupid it would be for me to trust someone I don't even know? If she's willing to have unprotected sex with C., without knowing or asking anything about me and my history and other partners and C.'s safer sex practices with me... how could I possibly trust her and be basically fluid bonded with HER?

Anyway, we had a good discussion and in the end I just said 'You know, it's your choice, you know how I feel and what I think, and I trust you to always give me any information I need to make decisions about my health'.

And then we went about our evening but something was off, and all of a sudden I just got so incredibly sad, anxious, and scared. It just hit me that this woman, who he met in october and told me would 'just be a friend to hang out with', is now on the brink of becoming his GF, and he is having to decide wether he's prefer to be fluid bonded with her or me (and I can see where that's going, because of NRE and all).

The night before he had basically declared his love to me, telling me how wonderful I am and how much he loves me and our relationship, and how much he's looking forward to all the fun things we have planned. And so besides being scared about Molly I got mad at myself, for being such a bad poly person, and where's my compersion, why can I not be happy for him? Why is the balance between being needy and being independant so incredibly difficult?

I guess I'm just really scared of change, it makes me feel unsafe in my relationships. Basically - if he told me 'she's just going to be a friend' and move onto 'we kiss, but nothing more' and onto 'she would like to be with me, but only if we can be monogamous' to 'she wants to sleep with me but not while you're around' to 'she wants to sleep with me and thinks she can handle you being in my life'... is it that strange that that is freaking me out? That I think the next step is going to be 'I like her a lot and want to try be in an exclusive relationship with her'?

He SAYS he loves me and does not want to lose me. I want to trust and believe him (and have no reason not to). But, like I said... I'm scared,and anxious.

But I don't want to feel this way. I want to be able to accept whatever comes. I want to be someone who accepts change as the inevitable part of life. Who knows that change can make you sad and mght hurt, but will not be the end of the world. I just don't want to be so fucking anxious all the time....
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #59  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:19 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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I think that your reaction (fear of change, sadness, freaking out) is appropriate given that C says he's mono and envisions a mono future for himself (with someone other than you).

I'll try to write more later, but that's the heart of it, I think.
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  #60  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:23 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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MeeraReed, he doesn't identify as mono... I just think (this is also based on things he told me about his previous marriage) that his ideal is different from mine. What he ultimately wants is to be in a committed primary partnership, and be free to have major crushes (which include intimacy) with other women. He crushes easily

I had a fabulous evening with MrBrown last night. In the midst of my panic attack when I was with C., I sent MrB an email asking him if he could meet later in the week for drinks beacuse I wanted to talk to him. So we met last night. I think this was the first time, since our first date, that we met in a bar and just had an evening of drinks and conversation, and it was wonderful. He has such a refreshing way of looking at things, and can talk about relationships without ever feeling attacked or makng things about himself.

We talked a lot and here's what we came up with:

My trigger for anxiety is Not Knowing and Lack of Information. I could find examples for this in all my existing relationships (including friendships).

When my husband says : 'I'm going over to see GF tonight, but we won't have sex' and he comes home and I know they had sex (and I ask him and yes, of course they had).

When this summer, MrB was seeing another woman and at first he told me: 'It's not really working out, I think I'll stop seeing her' and the next time he and I met, it turned out he had seen her often and they were in a relationship.

When C says 'I'm just going to be friends with Molly' and a couple of months later he says 'I'm about to sleep with her'.

When a friend says 'I'll call you tomorrow' and she doesn't.

All these things make me feel unsafe, like I cannot trust the other person, because their actions and words don't match. This causes major anxiety, and a feeling that I don't have control.

Then I start rationalizing that I have no need to be anxious, that my anxiety is stupid, that there is no need to be scared, that I am not supposed to be scared (because I'm poly! and should be able to deal with these things).
But the mind won't shut up the anxious, so that's not really working. I ask for reassurance, and this helps, briefly, but only until the next episode of course.

MrB said 'what if the feeling of anxiety that you are trying so hard to suppress with your rationalizing, is actually not a bd feeling, but just a feeling, or even a good feeling? Could you look at it like that?'

He made me see that me telling myself that I should not want to be in control is not working. The only thing that will work is to actually let go the control of others and by doing this, reclaiming control over myself.

Asking reassurance is basically nothing more than controlling others - telling them what to tell me to make me feel better.

The talk really helped, and then we talked about lots of other stuff, and kissed a little, which was fun, two 40-somethings making out a little in a bar full of 20 year old students There was a nice erotic charge, I think due to the fact that we knew were not going to sleep together that night. Ah, sometimes I like the charge better than the actual sex..
We talked about some of the kinks we've been exploring, which is something we almost never talk about, but just let happen.

It was an evening full of love, connection and freedom.

I'm not going to contact C., but wait for him to contact me. We have a date set for next week, when he will come to visit me in my city.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf

Last edited by Cleo; 02-21-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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