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  #1561  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:34 AM
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I'm glad your solstice was nice RP. Hugs all around for you and yours.
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  #1562  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:32 PM
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I have to go through my emotions and pick them apart until there is nothing left to gnaw on. I think that is the only way I can see to be able to get to a place of peace.
These words suggest (to my mind) a bit of harshness toward your thoughts and feelings, an attitude of self-rejection. Well, it's okay to want to change, but all the good advisors on such matters seem to echo the same point: Acceptance and self-compassion are a necessary preliminary part of the process of healing change. See for example Tara Brach's excellent book, "Radical Acceptance". She advocates self acceptance (and self-compassion) as a sort of necessay component of self-intimacy leading to freedom to change. Brilliant stuff.
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  #1563  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:34 PM
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Its probably been the worse Christmas that I can ever remember. There are so many details that I cannot repeat here but I think that Mono and I have reached a plateau of how far we can push this situation without breaking up. Or is it rock bottom? Like the bottom of a well.

I've come to realize the vastness of all that is happening and it has nothing to to do with poly and everything to do with the stories of our lives. How our stories collide. Poly doesn't come into it other than the need to have people in our lives that are our friends and our friends only. However small that might be the impact of that on each other is what is the issue. Finding a balance and some boundaries within that is where the work is I think. I can't do that alone, but I have tried to. I can only wait and see if everything I have said to him makes a difference to our future together at all.

I am still here, I am still alive, I am able to move forward now on my own if need be. I marvel at my strength. I don't know where it is coming from or why, but I continue to hold on through the huge amounts of doubt I have. Some of the information I get from Mono doesn't add up and yet I continue to hold on. There are large gaps of explanation and clarity. There seems to be huge chunks of emotional content missing as well as huge amounts of bits of stories missing also.

I have been told that essentially it isn't my business to know details of his life. Under different circumstances I would agree. I have been told that needing to know what has happened/happening is coming across as controlling. That it appears I want to control who he spends time with, who he talks to and what he does. I don't. I want to understand so that I can trust him enough again to be okay with his having his own business. I don't think he understands himself at this point.

There are so many levels and people involved in this whole thing it seems. I hadn't realized the web that surrounds Mono's life and seeing parts of that now has given me a whole new perspective on who he is and who I am in his life. Everything is the same yet vastly different all at the same time. I see people in our life and his differently now. Everyone from who we see daily to who we know on line.

My goal now is to consider how I fit in his life. How I want to fit after knowing what I do. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, as knowledge can make a person embarrassed and feel naive when they have been educated. That is how I feel right now. My pride has been taken down a notch. I am humbled and beaten into believing that the only person I can ever trust is myself.

Before now I was humbled because I thought I was blessed with the greatest poly life ever. I believed my life was filled with so much love. I felt I was unworthy of that much love and it humbled me. I have learned that NOTHING is ever what it appears and I was stupid to think I had anything at all but myself sitting amongst some people that liked hanging out with me and were getting something out of it.

At this point I see our connection as so damaged I don't know if its possible to return from this without huge amounts of honesty (I fear I haven't been given the whole story of things) and a whole lot of devoted time to working on our relationship. We have both decided to look forward to that in the future and while the cogs are not turning at this point I think that slowly we are about to come down the other side of this huge mountain we have created. This plateau is vast, but I feel as if we are nearing an edge where the only way out is to start heading down hill; descending from this heightened state of acute altitude sickness...? (don't know how to explain that). Or perhaps climb up out of the well we are now at the bottom of... depending on which scenario is a better visual. Whether or not we do that together remains to be seen.

My biggest wish now is that if we break up we will break up having grown and learned some valuable lessons so that cycles are not repeated again over and over. If it should be that I find myself without Mono I think that I might learn something about how I can survive through situations where I once thought I was abandoned and that hope was abandoned. I think I will have learned again that there is always change and that relationships always change. I am hoping that for him he will be able to gain some lessons also.
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Last edited by redpepper; 12-31-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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  #1564  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:26 PM
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Oh, hon, listen. He always was his own man. He always was making his own choices.

I think you got so comfortable in seeing him as part of your family, your household, your tribe, that you forgot he could make different choices at any time. You are see your connection with him as damaged, but perhaps think of it this way: it is deeper, more real, more authentic, because the frame of reference you had for him, as a monogamous lover of yours, totally devoted to you and only you, and part of your family, is lifting and giving way so you can see more of who he is as an individual. Just because Mono may want intimate friendships with other women, and not tell you about them shouldn't really hurt you - but you are choosing to see it as something that will definitely hurt you. Reframe it, let go. How wonderful that he trusts you so much he can tell you what he truly wants instead of fitting himself into your box.

It is indeed controlling and distrustful of you to ask that he keep you abreast of where he is and who he is with. You want to feel comfortable with allowing Mono to have "his own business?" It isn't yours to give. Why should he explain himself so you can get over the feeling that he doesn't belong to you? He never did, and that is a feeling inside you that you need to confront and get through on your own. You are two grown adults making your own choices everyday, but you only want him to choose you and seem to be taking his shifting into wanting something more, different, or separate from you as a personal affront, like a child who has been left behind in the playground.

I know it sucks to be a grown-up when reality hits us, but shit, that's what we gotta do. He is simply claiming space in his life to be a free man, to act according to how he sees fit for his life, and you are taking that as a wound against yourself. I think you need to open your eyes and see the reality of the situation. Yeah, it sucks that he hid stuff from you for a while, but maybe you can look at how it may not have felt safe for him to share with you all his feelings. And maybe you can look at the fact that he doesn't have to share all his feelings, either. Right now you are looking at everything from the perspective of someone who is having something precious taken away from her. But he wasn't yours to begin with.

I think the pity party you've been throwing for yourself needs to end. I say that with nothing but empathy and kindness toward you.
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Last edited by nycindie; 12-29-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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  #1565  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:54 AM
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I hope you feel better soon. Life sounds tough for you just now.

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I am humbled and beaten into believing that the only person I can ever trust is myself.
Och - my take is that lots of the time, you can trust loved ones just as much as you can trust yourself. I think we can't always trust ourselves. We change. What we want now will be different to what we want in a year or 5 or 10 years time - even if we don't wish our desires to change.

How we react to and cope with change in our lives isn't set either - it depends so much on what else is going on around us. Sometimes our way of coping means we are destructive to ourselves and those around us.

Our loved ones are as prone to these sorts of things as we are and so I think we can't trust them to always do what we would hope they would and we can't trust ourselves either. Nothing is solid, safe or forever unchanging.

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  #1566  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:12 AM
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We are all in our own struggles. I have no words of advice or even comfort. But, I send my hugs and positive thoights your way friend.
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  #1567  
Old 12-31-2012, 03:37 AM
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This probably isn't going to help much but a year from now what you're going through at the moment will likely make all kinds of sense. It doesn't stop the pain of going through it though. I don't have much in the way of words of wisdom.
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  #1568  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Oh, hon, listen. He always was his own man. He always was making his own choices.

I think you got so comfortable in seeing him as part of your family, your household, your tribe, that you forgot he could make different choices at any time. You are see your connection with him as damaged, but perhaps think of it this way: it is deeper, more real, more authentic, because the frame of reference you had for him, as a monogamous lover of yours, totally devoted to you and only you, and part of your family, is lifting and giving way so you can see more of who he is as an individual. Just because Mono may want intimate friendships with other women, and not tell you about them shouldn't really hurt you - but you are choosing to see it as something that will definitely hurt you. Reframe it, let go. How wonderful that he trusts you so much he can tell you what he truly wants instead of fitting himself into your box.
Good point nycindie. However I don't think I ever can do that. Its just not who I am. It never has been and I doubt it ever will be. I don't know, perhaps I will be able to one day, but for now its too rushed and I am only able to cope with what I can cope with or what we have will be destroyed forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
It is indeed controlling and distrustful of you to ask that he keep you abreast of where he is and who he is with. You want to feel comfortable with allowing Mono to have "his own business?" It isn't yours to give. Why should he explain himself so you can get over the feeling that he doesn't belong to you? He never did, and that is a feeling inside you that you need to confront and get through on your own.
I don't trust him because he broke several boundaries we had shortly after he told me that he wanted a DADT policy. I was comfortable before all this. He had his own business and I was fine with that.

I think he should explain himself so I can work on my sense of betrayal and disappointment that he has put his need and the needs of other women over mine. I will get through it on my own and have been. That doesn't mean I don't get to have feelings about it all in order TO get through it. I have every right to be emotional right now.

I will survive and I will move on. Whether I do with him or not. I don't want to end up making decisions about how to do that without information though and without some kind of explanation. I am hoping that I can get that by asking him. If I don't get answers then so be it. But I see no reason not to ask.

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You are two grown adults making your own choices everyday, but you only want him to choose you and seem to be taking his shifting into wanting something more, different, or separate from you as a personal affront, like a child who has been left behind in the playground.
No I don't want him to choice only me. I'm over that. Being cheated on because I will not consent to his secrecy and the lies that follow when I find stuff out is far worse an option.

If he wants other relationships then I give my consent provided he goes about it with the values that we have discussed so often here. Open and honest communication, integrity, compassion, a pace that means I can stay caught up, respect for the boundaries I have and creating boundaries together.... blah blah blah... all the stuff we have talked about for years in regards to me and my life. All the stuff we talk about on this forum in theory. Why should I allow for anything else than I have been asked for in the past? Why does he get a free card into non-monogamy when I didn't and others don't either. If he wants that and keeps fighting for it at the expense of all we have built together then we are done.

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I know it sucks to be a grown-up when reality hits us, but shit, that's what we gotta do.
um, ya? I'm old enough to know that I think... I'm not a child.

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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
He is simply claiming space in his life to be a free man, to act according to how he sees fit for his life, and you are taking that as a wound against yourself.
Of course I am. The way he took his freedom hurt me, hurt us and our family. His family. He calls us HIS family. Not mine, HIS. I don't own it. We share it now. That is what he wanted to have and he has it. That is what we have worked on together. All of us.

When I talk about my family on this blog its because its my blog. Its not out of some sense of ownership of anyone else. All of the people in my life have their own lives to live. I have mine. I never owned Mono's life. I did however have the believe that when it came to major game changes that I would be part of the discussion. There was and is none right now from him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I think you need to open your eyes and see the reality of the situation. Yeah, it sucks that he hid stuff from you for a while, but maybe you can look at how it may not have felt safe for him to share with you all his feelings. And maybe you can look at the fact that he doesn't have to share all his feelings, either. Right now you are looking at everything from the perspective of someone who is having something precious taken away from her. But he wasn't yours to begin with.
I see the reality loud and clear. That's what I have been talking about here for six weeks. He doesn't want to share all his feelings with me. He might not of felt safe, but who does in situations where you would prefer to cheat on your partner rather than talk to them.

I never felt safe talking to him about Leo. Yet I had to tell him and everyone I am with what was going on all the time because I respected their right to know where I am at and what was happening so they could make decisons for themselves. I respected that they needed to decide where they want to fit into my life and I respected that I wanted to figure out the same by going over with them what goes on in my head and hearing what they thought.

Its hard to be honest and open about ones life. Its scary. I have no doubt he didn't and doesn't feel safe, but I have made it clear that it will be okay, I won't yell and scream. I want to work on a solution with full knowledge on what we are even talking about. I want to hear the details so that there is something TO talk about. I have expressed that we will be better off if I do hear them. I have barely anything to go on right now so how can we talk if I don't know. I think that his walking through his fear of communicating will mean we can figure this out.

He doesn't want the personal details of other peoples lives to be revealed. Yet they know about me and my details. He wants to protect their identity so that their lives won't be disrupted, yet mine can be a shambles. Its easy to be honest to them maybe? But for me to know what they are like? Apparently that is too much information to give out.

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I think the pity party you've been throwing for yourself needs to end. I say that with nothing but empathy and kindness toward you.
Well, I'm sorry you see it that way. Thanks for your tough love, but I entirely disagree at this point in time. If a year from now I am whining that Mono is not my one and only and I am not his then please, by all means, call me out, but after a six week period and in the midst of a process that is no where near over, I think you are far too premature. I think I have every right to be angry, hurt, processing like mad and finding out as much as I can so that I can decide what MY course of action will be for MY life while he decides what course he wants to take.
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Last edited by redpepper; 12-31-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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  #1569  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:28 AM
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See for example Tara Brach's excellent book, "Radical Acceptance". She advocates self acceptance (and self-compassion) as a sort of necessay component of self-intimacy leading to freedom to change. Brilliant stuff.
Thanks River. We have it on our shelf and have glanced at it before. I will have a look again.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:29 AM
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Thanks to Derby and LR too and anyone else who wrote.
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