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  #31  
Old 12-26-2012, 05:17 PM
Moose17 Moose17 is offline
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Originally Posted by CageyCate View Post

Something I noticed: I am getting the sense that some view poly as you just do your thing and I do mine. In my house, we are in a life-long relationship. We do not operate our lives quite that independently, or have one foot out the door. We discuss everything. We check in with each other before and after dates and make sure what we are doing is in keeping with comfort and commitment levels. We have been together more than 20 years, are raising a child, and are committed to growing old(er) together. So, we don't just say, choose your secondary or choose me. That's just not our scenario.

...

My husband is first, always. And I am first with him. That's just how we operate.

I should also say that seeing people outside our marriage is more for dating enjoyment and less a "lifestyle" mandate. While we have caring feelings for those we date and love some of them in nurturing, non-posssessive kind of way, I would not say we are "in love" with them in any way close to the way we are in love with and committed to each other. So, our polyamory may differ from yours. I realize that some folks emphasize the "amory" more than others. Maybe you could describe me as more polysexual? I'm not sure the term. While I like having a primary secondary I really connect with -- that sounds awkward -- I may also have periodic dates with others, as might my husband (which I fully support), for whatever reason. New experiences? New connections? Doing things our regular secondary or primary is not into? Just plain fun?
I'm really hoping this forum has more breadth of attitudes than what you've seen so far. I'm new here, too, and what you describe as your version of poly sounds nice to me. My spouse and I put each other first. My wife explicitly gave me veto power not just regarding the person she's interested in, but over the concept. She offered to return to our strict monogamy if I wanted, at any time, if I need that. We have kids, we built OUR LIFE for the last decade-plus, and it can grow and change, but nothing can be allowed to damage it or substantively detract from it.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2012, 11:06 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is online now
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There is much room for different lovestyles on the forum.


I cheated on my husband with my current boyfriend. The story is detailed in other threads.
But three years ago-I decided to get my head out of my ass.

I committed to full honesty and we began attempting to build a dynamic that included my boyfriend (he was already part of the family so just ending contact was never an option).

I can say with certainty-that would NEVER EVER EVER have worked if my boyfriend wasn't equally committed to righting the wrong he made with my husband. I made a wrong I was committed to righting. He made a wrong he was committed to righting.

Something that seems missing in your situation-and this is a common oversight-but VERY unhealthy;
Is MAKING AMENDS.

When someone does a wrong; they owe an apology AND making of amends.
To ask you to "try again" without those steps being made is ludicrous. It's asinine. It's unreasonable. It's unloving.

If your husband wants to put the past to rest in terms of the affair and ongoing drama this woman brought to your life-
he needs to understand that there are certain steps to making that happen.

1) he apologizes for his wrongs-fully acknowledging his responsibility
2) she apologizes for her wrongs-fully acknowledging her responsibility
3) he makes amends and attempts to repair all damages caused by his wrongs
4) she makes amends and attempts to repair all damages caused by her wrongs
5) he rebuilds trust with you
6) she rebuilds trust with you

Until THAT is done-there isn't any future chance at all. Period.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's important to realize that there is a difference between having a trusting and respectful relationship as described by the above posters, where both partners talk openly and honestly with one another, prioritizing the relationship and working to the better good of all.

AND

having a situation where someone has broken trust and needs to re-earn it.


When trust has been broken, agreements broken, boundaries over stepped-
FIRST YOU HAVE TO FIX THAT DAMAGE.
Only after you have cleaned up that mess and repaired that damage can you expect to return to having the full privileges that come with the trusting respectful relationship from prior.
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:49 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Thank you for sharing your situation with us - I have found this thread very interesting and thought-invoking.

As you have noticed we all "do poly" in different ways...which I find fascinating, since the way that I "do poly" differs depending on what my present configuration looks like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyCate View Post
... I am getting the sense that some view poly as you just do your thing and I do mine. In my house, we are in a life-long relationship. We do not operate our lives quite that independently, or have one foot out the door. We discuss everything. We check in with each other ....make sure what we are doing is in keeping with comfort and commitment levels. We have been together more than 20 years...are raising a child, and are committed to growing old(er) together. So, we don't just say, choose your secondary or choose me. That's just not our scenario.
A lot of what you say here applies to my relationship with my husband. We have been together for 2 DECADES, we have built something together (although we don't have kids), we share a history and common goals. I would never give up what I have with him, regardless of who else is involved in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyCate View Post
...I cannot see myself refusing to end a relationship with someone who hurt my spouse so much and who obviously causes such pain in our relationship. My husband is first, always. And I am first with him. That's just how we operate.
Hmmm...interesting, I (myself personally) agree with part of the sentiment but not with the reasoning. I think it is because I don't "date." By the time I would consider myself in a "relationship" with someone they would already have had to pass the hurdle of NOT causing pain in my relationship with my husband...or in my relationship with Dude.

It's not that my husband is "first, always" (although he is the first chronologically)...sometimes Dude is first...sometimes I am first - depending on the circumstances. It's more that ... if a "potential" relationship is damaging to a "proven" relationship, then, to me, that "relationship" is just simply not going to work. Why would i want to be with someone that damages the things that are important to me? An analogy: If a friend of mine came in and set fire to my collection, say, of Heinlein novels - they wouldn't be my friend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyCate View Post
I should also say that seeing people outside our marriage is more for dating enjoyment and less a "lifestyle" mandate. While we have caring feelings for those we date and love some of them in nurturing, non-posssessive kind of way, I would not say we are "in love" with them in any way close to the way we are in love with and committed to each other. So, our polyamory may differ from yours.

...While I like having a primary secondary I really connect with -- that sounds awkward -- I may also have periodic dates with others, as might my husband (which I fully support), for whatever reason. New experiences? New connections? Doing things our regular secondary or primary is not into? Just plain fun?
So this may very well be a way that "your poly" is, in fact, different from "my poly" (and every person's "poly" is different). I agree with the "New experiences? New connections? Doing things our regular secondary or primary is not into? Just plain fun?" part, but, for me, I am also a proponent of letting relationships evolve to whatever level is right for that relationship, without restriction. (And, to be fair, I hate the very concept of "dating.")

My relationship with Dude is not at the same place my relationship with MrS is. How could it be? They are different people, we have been together different lengths of time, we have shared different experiences. 20 years from now could my relationship with Dude be near where MrS and I are now? Certainly, or it could be somewhere completely different. My relationship with Dude doesn't have to follow the same trajectory, it is it's own entity.


****

With regards to this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by CageyCate View Post
Yes, he knows how I feel about the ex. Ad nausea. That is why he isn't pushing so much as just reminding me periodically that he is still interested in her and would appreciate me not closing the door to that. I seriously consider it every time it is discussed (a few times a year?) and say I am trying to get my head around it and here is where I have trouble, how can we get past that? No solution has become apparent yet. We talk and I say I will think about it. But whenever it comes up, I have such a negative visceral reaction, it doesn't go much further.

... He realizes I have legitimate concerns and that she (or the relationship I guess, to be fair) caused major drama before. He justs wants this because she is a fun fuck and low maintenance (which I understand -- very appealing). For him. He is not desparately in love with her and my saying it pains me for you to do this won't end his world.
Aside from the "few times a year" that he brings it up, how much effort are you putting into "trying to get [your] head around it"? Do you ignore it between conversations? (This doesn't seem to be the case, since you are here talking about it.) It sounds as though the two of you don't date looking for "co-primary" type life-long relationships. So it sounds, from my perspective, that he is really looking at her as a potential "fuck-buddy" (i.e. "fun fuck and low maintenance"). - to me, that is less-than a relationship. So you either set swinger-type boundaries (you can see her x times a month, and I don't want to hear about it) and let him get her out of his system or you say "No, anyone but her." and put and end to the discussion.


Just some random observations.

JaneQ
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:27 AM
Fiona Fiona is offline
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I don't have much advice, only sympathy. I generally cannot stand my husband's girlfriend, and they have broken boundaries over and over again. She communicates poorly, and is immature and petty much of the time. Right now in particular, she's making me crazy. Sigh. I hope that you're able to work things out for the best.
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  #35  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:48 AM
LivingHappy LivingHappy is offline
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Angry Metamour's passive/aggressive behavior

Little background: I am the hinge in a V with my husband of 20+ years and BF who lives locally and is in a happy poly marriage as well. Both BF and I came to polyamory because our spouses really needed it to be happy. We found each other and are deliriously happy with our marriages and our relationship. We only get to see each other about once a week, with the occasional weekend together about every 6 weeks, and we make the best of it, texting daily. The four of us get along well enough to socialize in groups and as a foursome every once in a while.

Problem: BF’s wife and my husband do not currently have OSOs and since BF’s wife broke up with her boyfriend last spring, I feel that she is being a bit passive aggressive. Outwardly, she is super supportive of our relationship, but she has become a little needy recently, constantly texting him when we are together. Honestly, it pisses me off a little because I get to spend so little time with BF. I don’t feel like I can say anything to BF about it because he gets very defensive when anything remotely negative is said about her. My husband is very good. We talk on the phone while I am on my way to my date and then again when I’m on my way home. He only texts or calls if it is something really important. BF’s wife texts him whenever she thinks of something. Now, I know she has ADHD and it could be attributed to that, but I just get the feeling that she’s “pissing on her territory” sometimes and I’ve NEVER given her any reason to feel threatened. I have no intention of leaving my husband and running off with hers. I LOVE my poly life!

When we first started dating, she had an OSO and was really great and flexible. Even after they broke up, she would go out, often for the entire night so we could have a date night at their house. Now she has stopped doing that, we have had to resort to going to a hotel, which is costly. My husband gives us our house once or twice a month, is it too much to ask for her to do the same? I’m really frustrated
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  #36  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:09 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Well you don't have to say anything negative to your boyfriend, you could ask if he would mind ignoring his phone when you are on dates together, maybe have him ask her to call if there is an emergency? I don't think it's fair to label her as needy unless she's throwing a fit if he doesn't respond to each and every text. If he IS responding to each one, then it's him that you need to talk to about that & up to him to decide what he wants to do about the texting.

Is it too much to ask that she leave the house so that you and your bf can have dates there? No of course you (or hopefully her husband) can ask all you want, but that doesn't mean she is required to. Is there some reason you can't have dates at his place if she's doing her own thing in another room? I might gladly leave the house if I felt like it, but unless I've made an agreement to do that regularly, I surely don't feel obliged.

It sounds like she used to go out so you could have the house even after her last relationship ended. Did he asked her why she stopped going out or if she is willing to? It's really his job to ask for that if he wants it - she could've stopped going out because the weather got colder, or the people she used to hang out with got busier, or because he's not asking her so she doesn't know it's a problem? I don't know if you have friendly communication with her outside of group events, if so you can always ask her, but I'd suggest you do so assuming the best intentions on her part. It sounds like you may be shifting blame to her when the problem is that you and your bf have poor communication (it is totally possible to communicate a problem to a shared partner with nobody getting defensive - so maybe you should look closely at what you say to see if you are placing blame on her when you try to talk to him, or if he's just being defensive for no reason) and it's largely his job as the hinge to make things run smoothly if he can.

Basically from what you say your behavior seems like it could start getting passive aggressive due to your frustration unless you are already being so, your bf's seems passive (though you aren't clear if he is even aware there is a problem), and I can see you interpret his wife's as such too, but you don't seem to have any actual examples of her being passive aggressive, you just seem annoyed at her behavior being different than it used to be, and that it's affecting you. I'd suggest starting with the things you CAN control like asking HIM for what you want, and seeing if he can accommodate you.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:52 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
When someone does a wrong; they owe an apology AND making of amends.
To ask you to "try again" without those steps being made is ludicrous. It's asinine. It's unreasonable. It's unloving.

If your husband wants to put the past to rest in terms of the affair and ongoing drama this woman brought to your life-
he needs to understand that there are certain steps to making that happen.

1) he apologizes for his wrongs-fully acknowledging his responsibility
2) she apologizes for her wrongs-fully acknowledging her responsibility
3) he makes amends and attempts to repair all damages caused by his wrongs
4) she makes amends and attempts to repair all damages caused by her wrongs
5) he rebuilds trust with you
6) she rebuilds trust with you

Until THAT is done-there isn't any future chance at all. Period.
LR, can you give some examples of "making amends?" I'm having trouble distinguishing that from apologizing or just "not fucking up anymore" but it sounds like you mean more than that...
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:53 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
LR, can you give some examples of "making amends?" I'm having trouble distinguishing that from apologizing or just "not fucking up anymore" but it sounds like you mean more than that...
Even though the question was addressed to LR, I am interrupting to give you MY two cents:

"Not fucking up anymore" goes under "rebuilding trust". It is also part of "making amends", but "making amends" goes further than just "not fucking up" and is more specific depending on the situation and the individuals involved.

For example, if a person "talked smack" about you, then "making amends" for that might involve them going to the people they talked to and setting the record straight.

Or, if someone borrowed your car and wrecked it, "making amends" could involve giving that person rides or helping them get another vehicle.

If someone cheated in a relationship, "making amends" would be a more abstract thing and depends heavily on the personalities of the individuals, but it could involve pro-active things like doing nice things for the cheatee without being asked, or re-active things like checking in with the cheatee according to their comfort zone.

I typically don't ever need to do these kinds of things myself, due to the fact that I am perfect and never make mistakes. However, I am prepared for the possibility that someday, someone might need to "make amends" to me, and therefore I have put a lot of thought into my answer.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:12 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I would say that if your marriage really comes first, then a "low maintenance fun fuck" who has a history of threatening your marriage and who makes your spouse miserable shouldn't be an option. There are plenty of other women out there, and surely out of all of them there is another low maintenance woman who is fun to fuck, so why pick one who will hurt your partner and might even damage your marriage? It seems like he's not really exercising good judgment here, or else his priorities aren't really what he says they are (I would assume the former). I'd ask him to just forget about it.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2013, 12:23 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I would say that if your marriage really comes first, then a "low maintenance fun fuck" who has a history of threatening your marriage and who makes your spouse miserable shouldn't be an option. There are plenty of other women out there, and surely out of all of them there is another low maintenance woman who is fun to fuck, so why pick one who will hurt your partner and might even damage your marriage? It seems like he's not really exercising good judgment here, or else his priorities aren't really what he says they are (I would assume the former). I'd ask him to just forget about it.
Everyone's "marriage always comes first" until they feel their bits twitching and suddenly their "needs aren't being met" by their spouse. It's a thing.
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