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  #11  
Old 12-18-2012, 02:27 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I am really having to fight with my trust issues here. In the end, how that plays out it what will determine where I go from here. I can't not trust the people in my intimate life.
What's this mean? What's the plan of action at this point then?

Galagirl
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2012, 03:14 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Wow.

1st thought : You seem to have impulse/control issues. You have all these ideas of what you want and don`t want, but the minute a situation comes up, they all get put on the back-burner for whatever you feel in a moment.
You attracted a guy who is the same. And married. And not to you.

Good luck with that.

Do you feel you have always had a problem sticking to your beliefs, or do you feel it might be something that started occuring once your 1st husband died ? Do you still have a lot of pain from that ?

Side note : Why do people snoop, but restrict themselves part way into snooping ? I never really understood that. It doesn't make you any better then the person who reads everything. lol. Really ? ..If you are going to be insecure and snoopy, just do it already, and own it.
Don't cop-out half way through, to try and look noble.

Edit to add : Sorry, forgot to answer the title question.
No, I do not think these are poly growing pains. This is the price paid for cheating. I don`t really judge people's reasons for cheating, but there really is always a price to pay for that behaviour. Many times the cheater is at a confused state of life, and the person loving them on the outside, is the guinea pig.

Last edited by SourGirl; 12-18-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:03 AM
SJJ SJJ is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
What's this mean? What's the plan of action at this point then?

Galagirl
It means I would break up with him. I do not want to lose him but that would be what I would have to do for my own mental health if nothing else.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:18 AM
SJJ SJJ is offline
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This was an interesting one for me to read because I would think that most people that know me would think I have pretty great impulse control and would never at all question my ability to stick to my beliefs.

However, I think there some aspects of what you have said that are applicable if I look in the mirror. I broke my own rule. Okay, I had already fallen for him before my thick head registered he was married but I could have stopped it there. A part of me hesitates to say just yet that I should have because I really have not felt this depth of love and connection with a person since my first husband and there have been times in this relationship where it has left me a bit scared with how close this feeling is to the one with him.

I've never cheated in my life but I am very aware that helping somebody cheat is as bad even if you are in love and he is coming into his poly own, so to speak. Yes, it was wrong.

Do I still have a lot of pain from my first husband death? At times. It has been 8 years (I got married at 19) and his death was very sudden and in front of me and that certainly has given me abandonment issues and it is indeed after his death when I started to have anxiety attacks now and then.

What I will say that lingers more with me is the abusive relationship. That is really only two years in my past. I was silent through out most of what was happening to me so nobody knew until there was a particularly scary confrontation and I found a friend to confide in. Like a bad sweater, as soon as I told anybody my life unraveled and I had to leave. So, yes, I do have a bit of abused wife syndrome floating around in my head (my abuse was emotional but please don't take that as meaning low impact). The man I am with now, was the first man to make me feel safe in a very very long time. Now, I am struggling to not lose that feeling totally.

Yes, I guess I did snoop. Something, again, very against my character but in front of my face was rather clear evidence that I was being lied to and I guess I didn't fight the urge to click hard enough but once I did I didn't want to go further up and read more. Partly because I didn't want to have more words burned into my head and partly because I felt guilty. Really, guilty.

I believe you may be right that this is a consequence for not having fought my feelings for a married man even if he put leaving his wife into motion as soon as he figured out his feeling for me. No matter how it is said, it was wrong. The love, was and I hope still is, real though.

Maybe I deserve these feelings for now and I should swallow them and see how it plays out. Certainly, if it plays out badly I am going to have to go back to listening to my own rules no matter what. I just really do want my soulmate to return from his depressive jerk stage.




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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
Wow.

1st thought : You seem to have impulse/control issues. You have all these ideas of what you want and don`t want, but the minute a situation comes up, they all get put on the back-burner for whatever you feel in a moment.
You attracted a guy who is the same. And married. And not to you.

Good luck with that.

Do you feel you have always had a problem sticking to your beliefs, or do you feel it might be something that started occuring once your 1st husband died ? Do you still have a lot of pain from that ?

Side note : Why do people snoop, but restrict themselves part way into snooping ? I never really understood that. It doesn't make you any better then the person who reads everything. lol. Really ? ..If you are going to be insecure and snoopy, just do it already, and own it.
Don't cop-out half way through, to try and look noble.

Edit to add : Sorry, forgot to answer the title question.
No, I do not think these are poly growing pains. This is the price paid for cheating. I don`t really judge people's reasons for cheating, but there really is always a price to pay for that behaviour. Many times the cheater is at a confused state of life, and the person loving them on the outside, is the guinea pig.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2012, 06:42 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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I feel worry for you when I read through your writings about the situation you are living with. Especially with the difficult, traumatic events that you have coped with.

You talk about falling very quickly in love, of feeling secure with your boyfriend. My feeling on these sorts of very sudden feelings for strangers is that they say more about us then about the people. Maybe he reminds you of somebody who was lovable an who did give you security. His posture, way of moving, aftershave, dress sense - any of those could trick your brain into associating him with love and security. The problem is that our brains can be tricked like that. The reality of the new person may not match the reality of the person they are being associate with. So - in your shoes I'd be mistrustful of these feelings.

And then there are your boyfriend's habitual thought patterns. He has cheated (with more than just you?) on his wife. He likely has lots of stories in his mind that justify to himself why it's okay for him to behave in such a hurtful way toward somebody he loves. I suspect that these stories and thought patterns and the behaviours that go alone with them are by now comfortable habits for him - things he will go back to regularly unless he recognises them as such and deliberately takes action and works on stopping them.

And now there is the pair of you. Now he's living with you and you are in the role of his wife - you are the partner he can be open about being with, you are the one he comes home to the one he has to lie to. This coupled with the fact that he seems from your writing to have taken no action or ownership of his habitual cheating thoughts and behaviours makes me think that you can expect to be lied to and cheated on for as long as you are with him.

I doubt if you being happy with poly and clear with him that he is able to have sex and romance with other women will make any difference to the way he behaves. Having sex with others may not be cheating in the relationship you share with him but until they are addressed, he will still need an outlet for the habits he has created in his thoughts and action around settled relationships.

I think that he will still need to hide things from his spouse, lie about things and refuse to discuss what he's up to (all of which he has already done to you). I would bet money that if you ever ask him for any kind of boundaries around sex and romance (going slow, avoiding certain sex acts for a time with other partners, periods of monogamy while you get sorted etc) he will break those and lie to you about it.

I know it's easy to say because I don't love your boyfriend and am not in your position but I would be thinking very seriously about leaving / asking him to leave.

I don't your heart is safe with him. I think that the very early, deep feelings of love and safety you felt were projected onto him by your mind and body but that he is not worthy of them.

I wish you luck and strength.

IP
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:14 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitePossibility View Post
You talk about falling very quickly in love, of feeling secure with your boyfriend. My feeling on these sorts of very sudden feelings for strangers is that they say more about us then about the people. Maybe he reminds you of somebody who was lovable an who did give you security. His posture, way of moving, aftershave, dress sense - any of those could trick your brain into associating him with love and security. The problem is that our brains can be tricked like that. The reality of the new person may not match the reality of the person they are being associate with. So - in your shoes I'd be mistrustful of these feelings.


I doubt if you being happy with poly and clear with him that he is able to have sex and romance with other women will make any difference to the way he behaves. Having sex with others may not be cheating in the relationship you share with him but until they are addressed, he will still need an outlet for the habits he has created in his thoughts and action around settled relationships.


I don't your heart is safe with him. I think that the very early, deep feelings of love and safety you felt were projected onto him by your mind and body but that he is not worthy of them.

I wish you luck and strength.

IP

All very good points here.

SJJ- I don`t think you 'deserve' bad things happening to you. In fact that statement sounds like some residual thinking from the abusive relationship.

I totally understand that you would have lingering and on-going work with things that haunt you from the abusive relationship. It is great you are looking at yourself, and your actions with an open mind. I do wonder, if you are attracting 'sad' situations to you, purely because that is your history for your last 2 loves. You lost the first one far too sudden and soon, and there is great sadness and grief with that, and the 2nd one tried to destroy you, just by it's very nature. That has it's own sadness and grief.

Sadness and grief can be very sneaky. It can slip on you like a comfortable blanket, and change your perception of what feels good around other people.
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:31 AM
SJJ SJJ is offline
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I thank everybody for their responses and I have been doing a lot of self reflection from them. I don't want to give up on him but I understand that it may be something I have to do to protect myself.

Last night, I forced a conversation about the lying. It is difficult for me - probably because of the abuse history -to force myself into conversations where I know there could be conflict but you can all tell where it has taken my head. So, I decided to start it regardless of the outcome. I told him how hurt I was that he lied to me and pointed out that he had never fully apologized. At first, he was grumpy, for lack of a better word, over the conversation but then we got down to some nitty gritty and he did apologize and swears there is nothing out there looming for me to find out. I asked him about his commitment to rebuilding trust with me. He said he was willing to work on it. Which, honestly, is more than I expected. I told him that I can deal with him having feelings for somebody else but not with there being such secrecy and slight of hand about it.

So, I'll see what really happens. I'm not wearing blinders on the issues. He was told pretty firmly that if I do find out anything else has been kept from me (told him that omission is indeed lying) I would leave him. I don't want that to be the result but I will do it.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:44 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Good for you for having that hard conversation and being clear about your limits of tolerance. Even though it was hard for you.

Hopefully he will step up to the plate, stop with lies of omission, and help create a trust building environment with you in this relationship. You deserve good treatment. And whether he chooses on his end to step up or not? This is you stepping up to treat YOU like you matter to you. WTG!

Namaste,
Gala girl
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:59 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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You wanted him, knowing he was a liar and cheater. You knew this because he lied to and cheated on his wife. I suspect a lot of other women, though, convince themselves that the wife is really the problem, that he's soooo wonderful, and because she (the other woman) is also sooo wonderful and loving and understands him, he'd never do that to her.

Well...yes, he would. Because the truth is, cheaters cheat because that's what cheaters do. Not because the spouse is awful, not because the new person is so wonderful, but because cheaters have no impulse control, they take what they want when they want it, they feel entitled to do so, and lie to the spouse so the spouse doesn't cause any unpleasantness. Because they found another woman who will put up with that and ignore the way she sees him treating a woman he claims to love and convince herself he won't do it to her. It's all about them and their desires.

So...you wanted him--a liar and a cheater, you got a liar and a cheater.

What do you do now? Do you convince yourself he's something other than what he's shown himself to be by lying to and cheating on his wife for over a year with multiple women? If you do, you'll continue to be on forums asking these same questions and telling the same sad tale of how he's doing to you what he showed you, directly, he is willing and able to do to a woman he 'loves.'

I hope you will take my next words to heart, because you have many years left ahead of you, and your decisions today determine the quality of those years. As I read through (and eventually skimmed) your first 8 posts, I read a lot of me, me, me, my, my, my, I, I, I, a lot of: Yeah, yeah, cheating's bad, it's wrong, I feel bad about it....but day-um, he's so hot, we really clicked, and the sex was so good! What do you really mean? That cheating's wrong unless you really, really CLICK?

May I just say (and I'd say it in a kinder, gentler way if I knew how) that part of growing up and developing character is seeing and caring how our actions affect others. Honestly, I just shake my head in sorrow reading your post, and have no real sympathy for you because you only care about his lying when it hurts you. Did you ever once think how his wife felt during that year he was cheating with you and apparently others, too?

I'm sure she had her suspicions. I'm sure she caught him in lies. He no doubt played the same mind games with her that he's now playing with you. What is she doing now that he's dumped her? Did she have to move out of a home she loved or go back to work to support their children? Does she maybe see less of her children because she has to be at work more hours? Has she perhaps suffered anxiety attacks herself as a result of his lies and mind games to her? What kind of stress is she suffering now, what kind of health issues as a result of stress caused by his cheating and the divorce and single parenthood?

What about his children? When my (now ex) husband stayed out for hours after work to see another woman, he not only cheated on me, but on his children who were home, waiting to see him, missing him, asking me every ten minutes where he was and when he'd be home, and I had no answer. I had only my fear that he was dead on the highway somewhere. My children suffered as a result of their father being absent and unaccounted for, and suffered a second time as a result of the stress, worry, fear, and anxiety his unexplained absences put on me. Did your boyfriend skip his children's important occasions to be with you? Did his unexplained absences harm them? How are they liking having their family ripped apart? How will his lies and actions affect them as adults? How will it impact their future relationship with him, or even with their future spouses? Are they developing abandonment issues, themselves, as a result of their father walking out on them?

If you're not sure, please look up one of the many forums for betrayed spouses and read up on the agony that they and their children are suffering. You took part in causing that. I do not mean to be unkind, but it is the truth. You will be happier when you face this head on and learn and grow from it.

And because water seeks its own level, when you do that, you'll also choose a more quality man next time, one who will have the same integrity and honor you have gained, and will thus treat you as every woman deserves to be treated.

Is this poly growing pains? No. It's the natural consequences of getting involved with a liar and cheater.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:05 AM
SJJ SJJ is offline
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I'd like to say that you aren't right but I know that you are. I did struggle a lot at first but I guess the deeper in I got the easier it was to not listen to that part of my brain.

I never thought it was her fault. More a case, at least in how he presented it, as people who weren't actually in love sticking together for the kids. I am aware that that is a likely story. He has always made sure to say he thinks highly of her but I know how that sounds given everything that ha been done. She hasn't had to move out, she is still in her same job.

He is good with his kids. He still sees them pretty much everyday. Whatever is in him to lie, etc to people he loves doesn't extend to his kids. Of course, cheating is hurting them down the line.

I believe they were going to break up anyway but I am sure that there being a 'me' (whether that was that was because of love of because of him having a place to go) helped to move things along. None of which makes it right.

Perhaps that is part of why I am so anxious to make this work. To somehow not have done something morally wrong for no real end result. I don't know.
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