Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-13-2012, 10:29 PM
rory's Avatar
rory rory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
What is the hook one should not be left off?
I am not sure how what you wrote relates to what I had written, but I am happy to explain what I meant by that. I referred to a hierarchical situation, where the person who has two partners treats one (non-primary) with less consideration than the other (primary). If this person then tried to justify this by arguing that s/he has to do so because egalitarian/equal poly relationship is simply impossible, and we all believed them, I think this would let them off the hook too easy. Does that make sense? What I am trying to say is that it is one thing to practice hierarchy, and another to justify it by claiming hierarchy is inevitable.
__________________
Living with my partner Mya and metamour Hank. Seeing Lily.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-14-2012, 12:14 AM
PolyLinguist's Avatar
PolyLinguist PolyLinguist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rory View Post
I am not sure how what you wrote relates to what I had written, but I am happy to explain what I meant by that. I referred to a hierarchical situation, where the person who has two partners treats one (non-primary) with less consideration than the other (primary). If this person then tried to justify this by arguing that s/he has to do so because egalitarian/equal poly relationship is simply impossible, and we all believed them, I think this would let them off the hook too easy. Does that make sense? What I am trying to say is that it is one thing to practice hierarchy, and another to justify it by claiming hierarchy is inevitable.
It makes a lot of sense, thanks.

As for the inevitability of hierarchical situations, in my opinion they are almost certain to happen if one of the participants in a new polyamorous relationship already has a long-standing relationship with someone else. Pretty much the only way to make it egalitarian would be to downgrade, significantly, the pre-existing relationship.

I don't exclude the possibility that eventually the two relationships could come to be more or less equal - the second person could move into the household, and become a close friend of the first partner, for example. Possible? Sure. Likely? I have no idea.

(I am not thinking of a true threesome, as neither I nor my wife are bi, and thinking about such possibilities doesn't enter our heads).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-14-2012, 12:33 AM
Mya's Avatar
Mya Mya is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
As for the inevitability of hierarchical situations, in my opinion they are almost certain to happen if one of the participants in a new polyamorous relationship already has a long-standing relationship with someone else. Pretty much the only way to make it egalitarian would be to downgrade, significantly, the pre-existing relationship.
Well that depends what the pre-existing relationship was like before the new person came along. You know, not all couples are that couple-centric to begin with. You don't necessarily have to downgrade the old relationship for the old and new relationship to become equal. And remember, equal doesn't always mean the same. Equal can mean just equally important and equally considered in life decisions for example. It doesn't mean that the two people will get everything (time, attention, sex etc.) exactly the same amount. It means that no one is higher in the hierarchy than the other when making plans and decisions.

I'll take myself as an example. I used to have two partners. I had been with my husband for 8 years when I started dating my new partner. During my marriage I had lived in a different place than my husband many times and that was always fine for us. We spent quite a lot of time with our own friends and also we didn't fully share our finances. When I started my new relationship, which was an LDR at the time, I flew to see her for a week at a time every month. But that wasn't much of an adjustement to my husband since we were so used to spending time apart anyway. I never felt I was downgrading my relationship with him but still felt like my relationships were equal to me.

Everyone doesn't have the same starting point as you.
__________________
My live-in partners: rory and Hank
My metamour: Lily (rory's partner)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-14-2012, 02:35 AM
PolyLinguist's Avatar
PolyLinguist PolyLinguist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
Well that depends what the pre-existing relationship was like before the new person came along. You know, not all couples are that couple-centric to begin with. You don't necessarily have to downgrade the old relationship for the old and new relationship to become equal. And remember, equal doesn't always mean the same. Equal can mean just equally important and equally considered in life decisions for example. It doesn't mean that the two people will get everything (time, attention, sex etc.) exactly the same amount. It means that no one is higher in the hierarchy than the other when making plans and decisions.

I'll take myself as an example. I used to have two partners. I had been with my husband for 8 years when I started dating my new partner. During my marriage I had lived in a different place than my husband many times and that was always fine for us. We spent quite a lot of time with our own friends and also we didn't fully share our finances. When I started my new relationship, which was an LDR at the time, I flew to see her for a week at a time every month. But that wasn't much of an adjustement to my husband since we were so used to spending time apart anyway. I never felt I was downgrading my relationship with him but still felt like my relationships were equal to me.

Everyone doesn't have the same starting point as you.
Which is why it's so interesting, and so important for me, to be on this board. I get to discover lives very different from mine.

I come from a long line of "couple-oriented" people, this is how my marriage has turned out to be as well, and this is how most of my friends (and virtually all my close friends) are. It is hard for me to imagine any other "good" relationships - even if I know that they exist. I have seen plenty of relationships fall apart, of course, usually because one partner "had an affair" (as it is called in the mono world), and the other partner couldn't accept this (or the one with the affair just wanted out).

The interesting thing is that although our friends and acquaintences consider us very close, they are sometimes taken aback when they discover that I and my wife have a fair amount of autonomy (which is how it should be, in my view). We pursue different hobbies, have some friends separate from each other, and have even, occasionally, gone on short holidays alone. Good thing that our friends don't know (as yet, anyway) that I am considering polyamory!

The downgrading issue is interesting, and thanks for commenting on it. It's going to be a self-regulating thing, I expect. If it looks like a possible new relationship will require a serious downgrading of my marriage, I will not enter it. I know, it is not easy to foresee the future, especially one's future state of mind - but then I have managed my emotional life pretty well so far, why would it be different in the future?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:16 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsyl-tucky
Posts: 1,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
...
As for the inevitability of hierarchical situations, in my opinion they are almost certain to happen if one of the participants in a new polyamorous relationship already has a long-standing relationship with someone else. Pretty much the only way to make it egalitarian would be to downgrade, significantly, the pre-existing relationship.

I don't exclude the possibility that eventually the two relationships could come to be more or less equal - the second person could move into the household, and become a close friend of the first partner, for example. Possible? Sure. Likely? I have no idea.
I frequently use hierarchical terms in a "descriptive" way when talking about my relationships - which does not mean that I subscribe to a "proscriptive" hierarchy that seems to be what is meant by "couple-centrism" (i.e. "You can never be as important to me as HE is." "You can NEVER love them as much as you love me.")

So, Dude lives with us and is MrS's best friend (and was before we ever met). Does this mean he is "equal" to MrS? I don't really know what "equal" means in this context. They both are equally likely to forget to take out the trash, they both get yelled at when they overspend the budget, etc. Does a 2-year "boyfriend" have the same relationship with me as a 16-year "husband" - of course not...we are just getting to know each other. On the other hand, he is closer to me than MrS was at the same duration of our relationship (I have a little practice at relationships now ) My current description is that I am married and my relationship with my boyfriend is "working toward" co-primary.

On the other hand the two relationships would not be "equal" even if I had met them at exactly the same time. Relationships grown, change, and develop at different rates. They are not the same person TWICE, they are different people, I have a different relationship with each of them. EACH of those relationships deserves the right to thrive and grow at whatever rate and whichever direction is appropriate for THAT relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mya View Post
... You don't necessarily have to downgrade the old relationship for the old and new relationship to become equal. And remember, equal doesn't always mean the same. Equal can mean just equally important and equally considered in life decisions for example. It doesn't mean that the two people will get everything (time, attention, sex etc.) exactly the same amount. It means that no one is higher in the hierarchy than the other when making plans and decisions.
Thank you, Mya. One of the lessons I had to learn as a "hinge" is that fair =/= equal. It took me 6 months to a year to learn this. I would kiss one...and then the other. Go to dinner with one...then the other. I would keep "score" so that everything was "even". I drove myself nuts. Know what? The same thing that pleases one does NOT have the same impact on the other. Some people need more physical affection, some people need to feel emotional connection, some people need shared activities...etc. If I concentrated on making sure everything was the "same" (so MrS didn't feel like he was being pushed aside and Dude didn't feel like a third wheel) then I missed out on giving each person what they REALLY wanted and simply basking in the glow of the love of two wonderful men and enjoying the relationships AS THEY WERE. They both did their parts to help me learn this lesson, for which I am thankful.

JaneQ
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 12-14-2012 at 04:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-14-2012, 06:34 PM
PolyLinguist's Avatar
PolyLinguist PolyLinguist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
I frequently use hierarchical terms in a "descriptive" way when talking about my relationships - which does not mean that I subscribe to a "proscriptive" hierarchy that seems to be what is meant by "couple-centrism" (i.e. "You can never be as important to me as HE is." "You can NEVER love them as much as you love me.")

So, Dude lives with us and is MrS's best friend (and was before we ever met). Does this mean he is "equal" to MrS? I don't really know what "equal" means in this context. They both are equally likely to forget to take out the trash, they both get yelled at when they overspend the budget, etc. Does a 2-year "boyfriend" have the same relationship with me as a 16-year "husband" - of course not...we are just getting to know each other. On the other hand, he is closer to me than MrS was at the same duration of our relationship (I have a little practice at relationships now ) My current description is that I am married and my relationship with my boyfriend is "working toward" co-primary.

On the other hand the two relationships would not be "equal" even if I had met them at exactly the same time. Relationships grown, change, and develop at different rates. They are not the same person TWICE, they are different people, I have a different relationship with each of them. EACH of those relationships deserves the right to thrive and grow at whatever rate and whichever direction is appropriate for THAT relationship.
Your reply is great for me, for it allows me some insight into the kinds of domestic arrangements that poly people have. Obviously there are other kinds of domestic arrangements too, but people rarely seem to speak about such mundane things.

Now, someone moving into my household as a third member is one of the two conceivable poly relationships I would ever contemplate. Most of what is called "couple privilege" would simply disappear in such an arrangement - if it didn't, it would develop a hellish atmosphere on short order, and who wants to live in a hellish atmosphere?

The psychology of being the "new kid on the block" is fairly well known, and would tend to occur if someone moves into a household where two (or more) people already have lived together for a while. Fortunately this could not develop in my case, because the home I share with my wife is simply too small for three people. Not because we are dirt poor, but because we chose to retire to one of the most expensive cities in the world, and the choice was: do we want to live in a small place close to downtown, or in a larger place further out? We made our choice - at that time we were not yet in poly-thinking mode.

So, if a third person wanted to join us, we would have to move into a larger house or apartment. As my wife has no interest in having a lover, and I am not gay or bi, this third person would be a woman. She would have to invest into a third of the finances (otherwise she would be my live-in mistress, wouldn't she?), and assume a one-third role in all domestic work and decisions. Just to be fair and equitable, right?

At this point the "founder effect" would more or less wither away, because everyone's concerns would have equal weight in discussions. Of course there would be, at times, sentiments private to the initial couple, but everyone would be well advised to keep such feelings private. I have raised children, I know what I am talking about. There are times when a parent feels closer to the older child, just because (s)he has been around for longer, and there were times for special bonding with the first child before the second was born. But you don't show such feelings, and certainly not when the second child is around. In any case, there are compensatory feelings special to the second child, as (s)he is the younger, the one everyone (including the first child) babied more recently.

And, oh yes, no yelling in our household. Yell once too often, and it's over. Since taking out the garbage was mentioned - and this is my task usually - I may (occasionally) forget, because I am the absent-minded sort and my mind tends to be on more interesting things than taking out the garbage. So my wife (1) reminds me, gently, (2) waits until I too notice that it should be done, or (3) takes it out herself. Mono or poly, that's how loving relationships function, in my view. And yes, she also forgets to do things at times, and I react the same way. I didn't much yell at my kids either, and they grew into responsible adults for all that.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:29 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,956
Default

Do you believe couple privilege exists? How would you define it? (Or how would you adjust my proposed definition?)

Definition: "Couple privilege" would be the "couple" in question inside a polyship having "special rights" or "special immunity" granted to it by all players in the group.

If all the people are cool with granting that, who am I to argue? It's their polyship to run.

Problems could arise when SOME of the polyship people EXPECT without stating it to all. Or even if all initially agreed, but the people do not make room for adjsuting it when this limitation no longer fits/works for all. Time changes wants, needs, and limits.

I would not want this for myself in polyshipping as a HARD LIMIT. I prefer a co-primary model. My spouse is further along in relationship with me. Cannot expect a person I just start to date to be on the same footing as a 19 year old relationship! He's on my will! But it would be on the understanding that "some things are earned" with due passage of time and it would be working toward a "co-primary polyship."

I could see "couple privilege" as a soft limit thing in certain situations.

How have you seen couple privilege manifest in poly/open relationships? (Examples)

Sure. "You can have sex but don't have feelings" is a classic common expectation designed to honor "couple privilege." There the couple has dibs on feelings. (And it frequently falls apart for not being realistic/reasonable!)

It pops up in time management -- deal with couple/family things first, everyone else second on the calendar. If the others are fine with that, it could work out.

Ex: One of my friends is divorced, coparenting, and a secondary for several years. He maintains his flat, GF lives with her spouse and her meta in their home. They both deal in raising their children so I get the impression that it is "arrange the kid stuff first then deal with the rest" over there.

The polyshippers understand that children's needs are what they are so they roll with it. Sometimes the "couple" is not adults, but "parent-child" couplings that need that "couple privilege" in place for a time. The kids won't be kids forever, and then we don't have to deal with kiddie bedtimes and babysitting and custody visitations times and whatnot.

I could see it in pregnancy -- metas understanding that baby could choose to be born whenever or pregnancy problems could arise and that could mean BAM! Everyone to hospital STAT! There's another place for reasonable "couple privilege" and the couple in question is the "mother and pending baby." Everyone (including the father!) has to orbit around that couple's needs first for a time.

Maybe the couple wants "couple privilege" to be able to present to society as the known couple because the polyship is not out because of risk to career, where they live and hate crime, who knows.

Again, it depends on what the polyshipping people want for their polyship and what rights/immunity they want to grant each other when.

Is couple privilege harmful, neutral or beneficial in poly/open relationships, or in the poly/open community? Why or why not?

If all parties agree to it, great. It could help them navigate life transitions (ex: new baby coming!) better because everyone understands that for this bracket of time, roles are THIS right now.

If all parties in the polyship do NOT agree to granting that couple privilege for the reasons requested, best not to polyship together if the terms are not agreeable (start of polyship) or cannot be renegotiated (established polyship.)

INSISTING on couple privilege is harmful because it's not taking other people's wants, needs, and limits into consideration. It is selfish to impose your own way on others who are not willing. Best to break up. Then nobody is being selfish and all are free to pursue their next happiness.

How has couple privilege affected your personal experience of poly/open relationships? Specific examples or personal stories are welcome.

I'm supporting a friend in divorce hell right now. They Opened with the classic "sex but no deeper feelings than friends" and it blew up when love began. The husband has just gone plain beserk with jealous rage. 'Nuff said. Ugh.

People sometimes forget "couple privilege" is not just the "original couple" but all couples in the larger polyship.

Once I was a hinge. BF2 had a wigginz and demanded to know how soon after I was with him was I with BF1. I sternly called him into account to explain himself because that encroached on the agreement for TMI details.

Turns out he was feeling insecure because he was afraid I was comparing their bedroom skills.

I wasn't, and seeing me rear up to defend the right of THAT couple (BF1 + me) to have privacy in its tier reassured him. Because he knew if BF1 was being nosy in the other direction I'd rear up just the same to defend (BF2 + me) and that tier's right to privacy too!

I told him was willing to ask all to get together to renegotiate TMI wall agreement if all parties felt more comfortable sharing intimiate details now and the line had to change. But until such time I was going to stick with current agreement!

He said he felt a lot better and no, he was fine with agreement with how it stood. He was just having a jealousy flare up but got the reassurance he needed from me to be able to put it down.

In hindsight I marvel jealousy management in that grouping went along so well. Nobody had a problem stating "I am jealous right now! I need____" once they realized that is what they were feeling.

I suspect sometimes "couple privilege" is invoked to avoid having to process and deal with jealousy management issues. The people want to not to have to feel jealous at all.

Which is odd to me. It seems more effective to me to grow jealousy management skills strong, so when some flare up happens it can firmly be put out. To me jealousy is a "flag" emotion that isn't anything more than "a need is not being met. Look deeper here." Why ignore warning flags and let things fester under the surface? Be all "Nooo! I don't want to see flags!" That is not healthy seeming to me.

How would you like to see couple privilege addressed in the poly/open community at large?

What community? Polyships are DIY. The polyship people write their own story for their polyship.

Ideally? Each group addresses the reality of relationship management in healthy and appropriate ways because the people in question who want to try being together are realistic, reasonable and have good communication skills and conflict resolution skills. They want to be in a harmonious realtionship together where everyone's reasonable and realistic needs are mostly met so they can all thrive.

Everyone knows and states their wants, needs, and limits. Everyone takes the other people's wants, needs, and limits into consideration. They agree on the relationship model they want to pursue together -- whatever type it is.

They figure out how they want to be in right relationship to each other as a group -- what rights will be granted to whom, what responsibilities are assigned to whom, what expectations will be met by whom. And all the people are happy with the terms they create for themselves and have a plan in place for coping with the passage of time and fluctuations in wants, needs, and limits of the participants. People are not static objects.

It boils down to -- Make your initial agreements. Fly together for a time, making agreement adjustments as needed. Fly some more. When it's time to end it? End it well.

All relationships come with a clock attached. Even "til death to us part" is an ending. Plan to end well, when the ending time comes.

If you are part of a primary couple that chooses to handle relationships with additional intimate partners in hierarchical ways that may seem to reinforce couple privilege, what is your rationale or intent for those choices?

I already touched on that a bit above. Again, the "couple" in questions doesn't have to be the "original couple." It could other groupings. The polyship can agree to give these "couples" extra rights or immunity for a time for whatever reason the polyship finds acceptable.

If you eschew hierarchy and/or labels in your poly/open relationships, how do you “walk that talk” regarding couple privilege?

There's the banner I fly under with DH. Rights, responsibilities, and limits.

New potential partners are invited to look it over, negotiate to add their things that is not covered already, and if all can accept and adopt this new flag to fly under? Well, that's the flag the new polyship flies under then! All present and accountable.

I'm not going to just put a potential on my will or my house deed immediately like DH is! He's clocked 19 years here! But it is understood to be working toward co-primaryship and things like that could be on the table in due course of time. We have to let it unfold as it does and arrive there when it arrives.

If you are a non-primary partner or solo poly/open person, how have you adapted to couple privilege in terms of how you handle relationships and what you’re willing to accommodate?

Show me the money. What's the offer here?

I don't mind dating a married/partnered person but I want to know what kind of relationship you would be offering to ME. What are the terms? I'm willing to accommodate realistic, reasonable requests for things I'd put in the "couple privilege" bucket. But I have to feel my own voice is heard in that potential polyship too or else the offer just doesn't interest me.

I have my own wants, needs, and limits. *shrug*

HTH!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-14-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:31 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsyl-tucky
Posts: 1,091
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
So, if a third person wanted to join us, we would have to move into a larger house or apartment... She would have to invest into a third of the finances (otherwise she would be my live-in mistress, wouldn't she?), and assume a one-third role in all domestic work and decisions. Just to be fair and equitable, right?
Okay, if that is how you see it, but I have to say that I chuckled when I read this. Just about the time that I met Dude we were in the process of moving from a 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath house to a 1 bedroom, 1.5 bath house. Dude helped us move and then moved in.

I'll just have to inform Dude that he is a "live-in mistress" since I provide 100% of the finances. PS. What is a "live-in mistress"? Is that different than a "housewife"? Where does said housewife generate 1/3 of the family finances? And he should assume 50% of the "domestic work" - since I don't do any? What if he fixes all of the cars instead? And what "one-third" of the decisions does he get to assume? What brand of shampoo we buy? He can have 100% of that decision - since no one else cares; on the other hand I am uncomfortable with him (or my husband for that matter) having 1/3 say in how I invest my 401(k) since they are 0% educated/interested in investing and it has been my personal hobby for the last 15 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
Of course there would be, at times, sentiments private to the initial couple, but everyone would be well advised to keep such feelings private.
The non-initial couple has no "private sentiments" then? Does that meant that all of their "sentiments" are public or that they aren't allowed to have any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
And, oh yes, no yelling in our household. Yell once too often, and it's over.
Whose rule is that? If it is your rule, then good luck if your wife and your girlfriend decide to outvote you. I thought that we had a "no un-planned guests" rule (due to the fact that I am an anti-social introvert that hates people in general), 16 years of marriage and then my husband is backing up my boyfriend with the "we live here too" argument...and there are people sleeping on my floor...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
Since taking out the garbage was mentioned - and this is my task usually - I may (occasionally) forget, because I am the absent-minded sort and my mind tends to be on more interesting things than taking out the garbage. So my wife (1) reminds me, gently, (2) waits until I too notice that it should be done, or (3) takes it out herself. Mono or poly, that's how loving relationships function, in my view.
Your wife is, obviously, a much nicer person than I am. Personally I - 1.) remind them gently, 2.) wait until the trash reaches the ceiling, 3.) nag incessantly, 4.) start playing Oscar the Grouch singing "I Love Trash" over the stereo at odd hours of the day at max volume. I'll be damned if I take out the trash after working an 80 hour work-week while the two of them are home all day. In my view, mono or poly, people doing what they SAY they will do is how loving relationships function... or you re-negotiate.

JaneQ

PS. I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to be mean (or more mean than usual)...my point is that each configuration will find their own balance, or they will fail. There is no equation by which you calculate what % of x/y/z each person does/is responsible for. If everyone needs are being met and it is working - good; if otherwise, then you have more work to do.
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 12-15-2012 at 06:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-15-2012, 07:53 AM
PolyLinguist's Avatar
PolyLinguist PolyLinguist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 49
Default

Ha! We would have a lot of fun arguing these things out, if we didn't draw blood first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Okay, if that is how you see it, but I have to say that I chuckled when I read this. Just about the time that I met Dude we were in the process of moving from a 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath house to a 1 bedroom, 1.5 bath house. Dude helped us move and then moved in.

I'll just have to inform Dude that he is a "live-in mistress" since I provide 100% of the finances. PS. What is a "live-in mistress"? Is that different than a "housewife"?
A mistress, in traditional terms is a female partner of a man he is not married to (or equivalent to marriage, these days), and to whose living expenses he contributes in a significant way. There must be a word for its male equivalent, but I don't know what it is. It is not a derogatory term. But it is not the same things as a spouse.

A housewife (or househusband) is a partner who carries her (or his) weight, economically. If it's not in terms of income, it is in terms of work. If this does not happen, it's not exactly a relationship of equals, is it? Obviously, people can fall sick and simply cannot work, but that's another matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Where does said housewife generate 1/3 of the family finances? And he should assume 50% of the "domestic work" - since I don't do any? What if he fixes all of the cars instead? And what "one-third" of the decisions does he get to assume? What brand of shampoo we buy? He can have 100% of that decision - since no one else cares; on the other hand I am uncomfortable with him (or my husband for that matter) having 1/3 say in how I invest my 401(k) since they are 0% educated/interested in investing and it has been my personal hobby for the last 15 years.
Some of this is just legalistic quibbles.

This discussion is about "couple privilege", which - it seems - some people resent. I said that one way around it is for the third party to move in and become a participant in a three-person partnership, in which the three people are, more or less, equal. Once you live under the same roof and are in daily contact, it becomes difficult to start invoking any kind of privilege.

As for financial decisions, I usually make all of them in my mono marriage, after some discussion of the broad implications of what I plan to do. We have put everything into a common pot, and my wife is only too glad to let me decide such things. Introduce a third party into this arrangement, and things may become tricky. If she is not interested in contributing to the decision-making either, will she sign a disclaimer not to sue me in the future, whatever happens?



Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
The non-initial couple has no "private sentiments" then? Does that meant that all of their "sentiments" are public or that they aren't allowed to have any?
Of course they do. Is it advisable to flaunt them, in the presence of the third participant? You tell me. Here we are, sitting around the fireplace in a nice romantic evening, and two of the people keep on discussing some heartwarming moments they shared together some time ago. How delightful for the third participant - no, of course (s)he won't feel left out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Whose rule is that? If it is your rule, then good luck if your wife and your girlfriend decide to outvote you. I thought that we had a "no un-planned guests" rule (due to the fact that I am an anti-social introvert that hates people in general), 16 years of marriage and then my husband is backing up my boyfriend with the "we live here too" argument...and there are people sleeping on my floor...
I am getting confused here. Are you for or against couple privilege? But then suddenly this is "your" floor? I would never move into someone's home if it wasn't to be "our" home afterwards.

The no unplanned houseguests rule I don't quite get either. I have been married for thirty years, and I can't imagine inviting someone to stay overnight without discussing it first with my wife. Such an invitation belongs with the important decisions category - surely you don't need a rule about that, it's just one of those things in a partnership.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Your wife is, obviously, a much nicer person than I am.
This is something pretty clear. She is nicer than most people I know, which is one reason I married her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
Personally I - 1.) remind them gently, 2.) wait until the trash reaches the ceiling,
Why would you live with somebody who allows trash to reach the ceiling? I am not all that orderly, but surely there are limits to my tolerance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe View Post
3.) nag incessantly, 4.) start playing Oscar the Grouch singing "I Love Trash" over the stereo at odd hours of the day at max volume. I'll be damned if I take out the trash after working an 80 hour work-week while the two of them are home all day. In my view, mono or poly, people doing what they SAY they will do is how loving relationships function... or you re-negotiate.
Everyone can forget to do things at times, we are only too human. But people who consistently don't do what they have promised to do are not good partnership material, and I wouldn't renegotiate, I would just get out.

If I worked 80 hours a week, then came home and found that my partner(s), who stayed at home all day, didn't do a reasonable amount of work around the home, I would be awfully miffed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
couple privilege, crowdsourcing, hierarchy, input needed, privilege, society

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:31 AM.