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  #11  
Old 12-10-2012, 12:49 AM
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Helo Helo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixDomme View Post
Yes i can see that. And maybe my reason for wanting to date ppl is for more people to make me feel good about myself/appreciated/needed.

Sick and twisted maybe but that's reality for me.
Not sick and twisted, just not conducive to a healthy poly relationship.

Quote:
What are normal reasons for wanting more than one person? Why isnt one person good enough?
Dont know about anyone else but I'm not sure I could actually answer that.

Aside from that, two problems;

First, "normal" is a HIGHLY relative term. Outside of the aforementioned statistical context I dont know that it has any real meaning because its such a variable term.

Second, the "not good enough" plus the other comments suggest you really aren't ready for a poly relationship. Its not about one person not being good enough.

It may be that you just aren't poly. You do seem to have some self-esteem issues. I'd recommend working through those first before trying to have a relationship with multiple partners. I also highly recommend "Polyamory in the 21st Century" by Deborah Anapol, very good and very comprehensive look by a professional therapist and long-time poly person at the concept.
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:19 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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When you have "self-esteem issues" and look for other people to take up the slack, you tend to end up with other people who also have "self-esteem issues". This always leads to a cycle of co-dependency.

It is very easy for me to sit here and type, "You have self-esteem issues and need to work on those before blah blagh relationships blah blah etc." What may not be obvious is that is has not been easy for me to get to the place where I can just SAY that and be certain that I know what I'm talking about. I had HUGE "self esteem issues" in my teens and early 20's, and if I didn't know who I am I would never believe that I was the same person I am now that i was then. "Self esteem issues" means different things to each one of us, but one thing that is common to all is that having "self esteem issues" is not a character flaw. It is not something that people who have been there look DOWN upon. It is something that we who have been "through the rain" understand how hard it is, and how it often seems to be other people's problem, and that there is no way out but through. But I promise you - nobody else can fix it for you.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:04 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Think of something you like to do. Something fun: riding roller coasters, going to see your favorite band perform, or going water skiing for example.

Then think about your partner not being with you when you do whatever thing you're thinking about. Are you still going to have fun without him?

Are you going to have fun because he isn't with you or are you going to have fun simply because you find the activity fun?

Think of things your partner does that he finds fun. Is it only fun when you are not along with him? If he goes and does something he thinks is fun without you - are you jealous?

I don't just enjoy things if my partner participates. I enjoyed sex before him so clearly my enjoyment of sex isn't dependent on him being my partner. And if he enjoys sex with someone else it isn't BECAUSE it isn't me he is having sex with. Its because sex is fun. Its not as personal as you're letting it be when you are feeling jealous.
So when you're feeling low about it, remove yourself from the equation and then look at what he is doing again. Your partner isn't seeing others because you're not good enough. Its because getting to know people is interesting and sex is fun.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:55 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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It is clear from your writing that you are not into swinging -- one type of open model relationship.Which is fine that you have this preference.

But you do not state this as something you want/need such as...
"I want/need to be in a relationship that is not swinging"
And this is still not stating it in terms of what you DO want. Something like...
"I want/need to be in a relationship that is polyamory and closed to X people. I do not want swinging."
Revisiting your original post... could it have been written to be more like this? Now that I know you are talking about swinging while wanting polyamory?


Quote:
"I am having such a hard time with swinging. I had a perfectly happy monogamous marriage for 4 years. Then we had deep discussions and decided to try polyamory (I've never liked feeling caged in).

We were in a triad briefly which was nice but didn't last. I experienced compersion and was not jealous of them at all which was miraculous since I am such a jealous person.

Now we swing. We date others but live together.

I still despise a lot about swing. For instance, I feel like swinging men are all about notches on bedposts. I want to mean something to someone. I want someone to NEED me. I don't want to feel like I'm just another replacable lover. I despise the thought of stds. I hate that people think I am "easy" if I'm a swinger. Or that it's all about sex.

But I am insanely jealous and worry I will lose him to someone better or with a better body and my fear of these things or that he is happy w someone else or I am not good enough sexually for him eats at me.

Even though I am sexually experimental and into bdsm I still feel like a "good girl". I will never be a self-proclaimed slut. My virtue is important to me. I can count the number of ppl I've slept w on my fingers and I'm proud of that.

I want to close our relationship but then I will feel like I am caged in. I want to keep our relationship open to polyamory but closed to swinging for my sake but then when he starts dating people in a swinging context I get unstable w jealousy all over again.

I WANT to be ok with swinging. I WANT to work on my jealousy. And ive tried....Ive read books, gone to a therapist who is poly herself, and i've journaled. But I just cant make the jealousy disappear. I cant get rid of negative thoughts about swinging.

In a way I feel like swinging has ruined my life. Without it things were good enough. We were grateful for what we had. Now it feels like we will always be searching for something more and never perfectly happy."
Maybe you just are NOT going to "get ok" with swinging? If it is not your thing, it is not your thing.

Could you articulate that to your partner? Maybe something like
"I would like our relationship to close to swinging. I am open to exploring polyamory with you, but not swinging. I need relationships to mean something more than casual recreational sex.

I need to be able to feel safe with you as my lover. You engaging in swinging makes me feel physically unsafe because I worry about STDS and emotionally unsafe because I struggle with jealousy. Engaging in swinging when I do not want this for myself dings my self esteem.

I would like to be free of those worries and stopping swinging in our marriage would help reduce it considerably. Would you be willing to stop swinging in our marriage? "
HTH!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-10-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:12 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Don't worry! Poly isn't (too me ) all about notches on a bedpost. In fact, I haven't met many (if any) poly people who are sluts. Most people on here don't seem so.
Depends on how you define slut. I ID as a slut, but an ethical one. It doesn't mean I fuck any Tom, Dick or Mary that says Hi on OKC or looks at me on the street. For me, it means I am extremely sex positive and open minded and free to do what I want, as long as I don't hurt anyone (unless they want me to hurt them, mwahaha).

I don't notch my bedpost. I like people body and soul. For me, bodies only, coming together, is not nearly as much fun as someone you know and trust and go into deep crazy places with, over a nice long period of time.
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixDomme View Post
[I] worry I will lose him to someone better or with a better body and my fear of these things or that he is happy w someone else or I am not good enough for him eats at me.
But... that's what happens in monogamous relationships. In mono relationships, if you want to be with A, you can't be with B, if you want to be with B, you can't be with A, so you pick the "best" one of the two and leave the other.
In polyamory, it doesn't really matter who is "best" or if there really is one person who is, because you can be with both. Think about it, if he broke up with you for someone else, he wouldn't be gaining the someone else: in a polyamorous relationship, he already "has" them. The only difference would be he would be losing you.

Surely you realise that it wouldn't make sense, regardless of how awesome someone else is, to break up with you when he would gain nothing from it and lose you.

On top of that, I don't think you can objectively grade people and pick who's best. That's not how it works because people are more complex than that. Otherwise, people who think they need to choose (common monogamous plot) would not agonize over it.
No matter who he meets, you will be better than them in some aspects. And yes, they will be better than you in other aspects. Maybe they will get some of his jokes better, but you'll remember what his favourite flavour of ice-cream is and buy it for him. Of course it can also be more important stuff too, but the bottom line is, you're a combination of many, many things, and not all of them are going to be inferior to this mythical other woman you're picturing.

Even if you only mean physical aspects, not all of her body parts will look "better" than all of yours. Add to that the fact that beauty is subjective and even a single person will see their taste vary from one day to the next, and I really wouldn't worry about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlixDomme View Post
I still despise a lot about poly. For instance, I feel like poly men are all about notches on bedposts. I want to mean something to someone. I want someone to NEED me. I dont want to feel like I'm just another replacable lover. I despise the thought of stds. I hate that people think I am "easy" if I'm poly. Or that it's all about sex.
You hate that people think it's all about the sex and that you're slutty or doing it for the sex. Yet, you're obviously having the same negative assumptions about polyamorous men. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to realise there is more to polyamory than sex for you, as long as you keep assuming it's all about the sex for men.

So, I would work on keeping an open mind, and not assuming. Sure, some guys, mono or poly, will be thinking about the sex mostly or only. Others won't. Since your goals aren't sexual, look for those who share your goals, be clear about your goals so those who don't share them can move on, and move on yourself if you realise their goals don't match yours.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:02 PM
AlixDomme AlixDomme is offline
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Thanks all for the great responses.

I journaled yesterday about my feelings abou poly...and they ALL stem from fear. So I am now taking the advice here and focusing on what I do want:

Happiness
Being able to give love without any expectations
Freedom to do what I want/need to do for myself
Health (carefully screening people, STD testing, using protection, etc)
Being at peace with myself whether alone or with someone
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Good for you! Now that you have listed in your journal what it is for your WANTS, you could perhaps (when ready) start putting little bullet items under each one for HOW you want to achieve those things and what might be needed.

Keep going! Keep narrrowing it down to what actionable behaviors (and from whom) need to happen to create that feeling of happiness, peace, freedom, etc.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-11-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:43 PM
FullofLove1052 FullofLove1052 is offline
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First....breathe. Honestly, I think for the time being, you need to keep your marriage closed. If you don't, every single time your husband meets someone or dates someone, it will chip away and drive you batty.

You don't like being caged in, but you aren't ready for a full-blown polyamorous relationship. Slow it down and focus on your marriage. If you're going to continue, you need to place boundaries. (E.g. Every night I expect you to sleep next to me. I expect you to not neglect me or our marriage. I expect equal attention despite NRE. Within the walls of our home, we're only talking about our relationship because I don't need to know about you and her or whatever. So on and so forth.) He has to make you feel comfortable. A huge part of poly is compersion. If you're insanely jealous, questioning whether or not you're good enough, and not happy for your husband...that's not the healthy side.

You have self-esteem issues, and you need to work on those and be happy with yourself and not rely on anyone to make and permanently keep you happy. I know that with or without my husband and our girlfriend, I'll be happy and be able to stand on my own two feet. You're also lacking confidence. Men love a confident woman. Confidence personifies sexiness. Be confident in the fact that though some other woman may be a lover or girlfriend, you're still his wife. Any man or woman that can be taken was never really yours from the beginning.

An integral part of marriage is having interests and friends outside of your spouse. Find something to do while he's out. Maybe you can date someone. When my hubby is out with our girlfriend, I spend time with our kids or I have a ladies night where can kick back, laugh, and act like we're at university again. I also pamper myself. I'll go to the spa or Agent Provocateur. I'll buy lingerie in his favourite colour and make him do a double take. I don't know everything about their relationship. She doesn't know everything about our marriage either.

Does your husband make you feel sexy, loved, and wanted? I mean before polyamory entered the marriage. You will always be his primary, the first, and the only Mrs. Nobody can take that from you. He saw something in you that he saw in no other woman that made him say, "I want this woman to be my wife and the mother of my children." You have to keep the spice in your marriage and not let outside influences take away from that.

With polyamory and all relationships, you have to communicate. Tell him how you're feeling and be honest. If he loves you, he'll reassure you that he's not going anywhere.

Not all poly people are slutty and not all men want a bunch of notches on their bedpost. Prior to this year, I was the only woman my husband had been intimate with in our almost 11 year marriage. I, on the other hand, have had the same girlfriend since '00. Outside of him, that was the only other person. Now, my girlfriend is our girlfriend, and our triad is closed. I suggest reading the book Ethical Slut. I had to read it for a class during university. I forgot the author's name.

Fear is normal. It's the fear of new territory, the fear of being replaceable, the fear of opening your heart to someone new, the fear of being judged, and all these things are normal. Just relax and keep working on your list. We're all here for you, and we've been where you are. Good luck!
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