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  #21  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:51 PM
yak1981 yak1981 is offline
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I know where u are coming from man. My wife and I are new to poly. I am str8 and she is bi. so fare all the women i have tried to date hav'nt worked because they say i am a friend or they dont understand poly. I know the right one will eventualy come along. I'm not rushing things and deffinatly dont want someone not healthy for my marriage.
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:05 PM
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There's that insecurity again. A good portion of what women find attractive is your attitude. An even bigger portion is your clothes. Stupid, Ugly guys who are confident and well dressed get laid. Smart, reasonably attractive guys mostly shoot themselves in the foot by over thinking things and being insecure.
Admittedly, I don't pay as much attention to my clothes as I probably should. I am also a bit overweight, I am working on that.

This matters for superficial contacts only, though. Maybe I am a bit too sure of myself, but I could easily name half a dozen women who would take me on tomorrow (well, maybe not tomorrow, but after very little persuasion), exactly the way I am. If I was single, that is...


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Originally Posted by onoma View Post
In other words you were in the friend zone. What do you mean by succeeded to a certain extent?
Sometimes they did sleep with me. It was always unexpected and not to be talked about afterwards.

What was there to talk about anyway?

One I would not have considered to be anything more than a friend, there were too many incompatibilities in our natures. What more can one say than what happened was very pleasant? I actually decided to turn romantic and took her a nice bunch of flowers the following day. She looked profoundly shocked (embarrassed?), and did not invite me in for coffee. We are still good friends, but what happened once was not even alluded to in subsequent meetings.

The other was my big love, and she knew I would do anything for her. I was not exactly reticent. She was actually with me maybe half a dozen times. Here there was no question that I could have done more - I couldn't have.

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post

It can be difficult if you put too much importance on things. You have this overarching idea that women only want sex in terms of a monogamous relationship. Or at least that monogamy is something you can barter for sex. Think about it though... if that were true, there wouldn't even BE a polyamorous world. Or at least not a heterosexual one...
As I said elsewhere, this is not what I think. What I said was that for men like myself monogamy is a useful asset. If I had certain other assets aplenty, I would be out there sleeping with the most monogamous married women I could find, for they wouldn't be able to resist me. I know such men. But I can't be like them.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:30 PM
onoma onoma is offline
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Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
Admittedly, I don't pay as much attention to my clothes as I probably should. I am also a bit overweight, I am working on that.

This matters for superficial contacts only, though. Maybe I am a bit too sure of myself, but I could easily name half a dozen women who would take me on tomorrow (well, maybe not tomorrow, but after very little persuasion), exactly the way I am. If I was single, that is...
If you think they want to sleep with you, why do you think they need you to be single? If you think these women want to sleep with you, but wouldn't because you're not single, why do you think polyamorous women wouldn't want to sleep with you? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were more interested in you because you were in a relationship!


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Sometimes they did sleep with me. It was always unexpected and not to be talked about afterwards.

What was there to talk about anyway?
I was asking about the one you were doting on, not all of them. Hadn't expected the two of you to actually have slept together, so cool.

Quote:
One I would not have considered to be anything more than a friend, there were too many incompatibilities in our natures. What more can one say than what happened was very pleasant? I actually decided to turn romantic and took her a nice bunch of flowers the following day. She looked profoundly shocked (embarrassed?), and did not invite me in for coffee. We are still good friends, but what happened once was not even alluded to in subsequent meetings.
Had something similar happen too. I had a FWB for a few weeks, and one night after our friends left the bar I said it was nice to finally have some alone time. We never slept together again...

Basically, I had gone overboard. We weren't supposed to have feelings for each other, so when I said something "mushy" it was very much the wrong thing to do. Unless you're actually trying for a romantic relationship, leave the romance at home.



Quote:
As I said elsewhere, this is not what I think. What I said was that for men like myself monogamy is a useful asset. If I had certain other assets aplenty, I would be out there sleeping with the most monogamous married women I could find, for they wouldn't be able to resist me. I know such men. But I can't be like them.
Here's the problem. If you think monogamy is a "useful asset" it sounds like you think you are bartering for sex. "I'll trade you a relationship for getting laid!"

Yet it sounds like you've slept with several women who were not at all interested in a relationship with you. In fact, in at least one case your relationship tendencies made things worse.

So what's your problem? Women want to sleep with you without wanting to be in a relationship with you. You just need to get over thinking that women want a relationship for sex. You also need to realize that you have plenty of actual qualities women have been, and will be, interested in that weren't your desire for a relationship.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:23 PM
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Hi again. Interesting discussion. I wish some others would join in!

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post
If you think they want to sleep with you, why do you think they need you to be single? If you think these women want to sleep with you, but wouldn't because you're not single, why do you think polyamorous women wouldn't want to sleep with you? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were more interested in you because you were in a relationship!
Hey, hey, too many questions in one paragraph!

1) I was talking about people in the mono world. That's where being single is an asset. Now I am ready to enter the poly world, but not at all cost. If for some reason my marriage ended, my priority would be to re-establish a stable, long-lasting, loving (although not necessarily exclusive) relationship with one person. I just have to look on OK Cupid (where I have been for quite a while) to realize the percentages in favour of people. It's not that I would turn down a truly poly partner, but I would be much less likely to find one.

2) I obviously don't think that polyamorous women would be more likely to sleep with me if I was single. If I did, why would I be attending poly events? I'd rather go to meetings on astronomy and linguistics. Or join a choir. And yes, of course my being married, and having a wife who actually comes with me to poly events to show her support for this hobby of mine, is an asset.

A curious thing, by the way, which makes me wonder about the state of mind of some poly people:

This is what happened, more than once. People at poly events seem to be curious as to why my wife is there, and take her aside. She explains: my husband is interested, and I come along to show that I don't disapprove. But you do realize, they counter, that he may one day have sex with someone else? She is taken aback - of course she realizes this, she is not stupid. Why else would I be coming, anyway?

My question is: are there people going to poly events who don't realize that yes, it may well involve some sex?
I was asking about the one you were doting on, not all of them. Hadn't expected the two of you to actually have slept together, so cool.



Had something similar happen too. I had a FWB for a few weeks, and one night after our friends left the bar I said it was nice to finally have some alone time. We never slept together again...

Basically, I had gone overboard. We weren't supposed to have feelings for each other, so when I said something "mushy" it was very much the wrong thing to do. Unless you're actually trying for a romantic relationship, leave the romance at home.





Here's the problem. If you think monogamy is a "useful asset" it sounds like you think you are bartering for sex. "I'll trade you a relationship for getting laid!"

Yet it sounds like you've slept with several women who were not at all interested in a relationship with you. In fact, in at least one case your relationship tendencies made things worse.

So what's your problem? Women want to sleep with you without wanting to be in a relationship with you. You just need to get over thinking that women want a relationship for sex. You also need to realize that you have plenty of actual qualities women have been, and will be, interested in that weren't your desire for a relationship.[/QUOTE]
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:59 PM
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Hi again. Interesting discussion. I wish some others would join in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by onoma View Post
If you think they want to sleep with you, why do you think they need you to be single? If you think these women want to sleep with you, but wouldn't because you're not single, why do you think polyamorous women wouldn't want to sleep with you? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were more interested in you because you were in a relationship!
Hey, hey, too many questions in one paragraph!

1) I was talking about people in the mono world. That's where being single is an asset. Now I am ready to enter the poly world, but not at all cost. If for some reason my marriage ended, my priority would be to re-establish a stable, long-lasting, loving (although not necessarily exclusive) relationship with one person. I just have to look on OK Cupid (where I have been for quite a while) to realize the percentages in favour of single people. It's not that I would turn down a truly poly partner, but I would be much less likely to find one.

2) I obviously don't think that polyamorous women would be more likely to sleep with me if I was single. If I did, why would I be attending poly events? I'd rather go to meetings on astronomy and linguistics. Or join a choir. And yes, of course my being married, and having a wife who actually comes with me to poly events to show her support for this hobby of mine, is an asset.

A curious thing, by the way, which makes me wonder about the state of mind of some poly people:

This is what happened, more than once. People at poly events seem to be curious as to why my wife is there, and take her aside. She explains: my husband is interested, and I come along to show that I don't disapprove. But you do realize, they counter, that he may one day have sex with someone else? She is taken aback - of course she realizes this, she is not stupid. Why else would I be coming, anyway?

My question is: are there people going to poly events who don't realize that yes, it may well involve sex eventually?

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post
I was asking about the one you were doting on, not all of them. Hadn't expected the two of you to actually have slept together, so cool.
Oh more than cool, I assure you. I was in seventh heaven.

In fact, on retrospect, I didn't quite play my cards right, and she might have married me if I did certain things differently. But by the time this became a realistic possibility (this is all retrospectively, who knows what really went on in her mind?), I lost interest. I had another girlfriend, and I wasn't ready to get on the rollercoaster of emotions that I had experienced with the one I had doted on (your words) before. This time she would have had to say "I am all yours, no reservations, no ifs and buts". Then I would have dropped that girlfriend, awkward as this might have been. Today I might suggest a poly arrangement, but this was then.

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post

Here's the problem. If you think monogamy is a "useful asset" it sounds like you think you are bartering for sex. "I'll trade you a relationship for getting laid!"
First of all, there is nothing wrong with trading, if it's honest and fair. I trade with you, who want the same things (a loving relationship and sex), my singleness and desire for sex. Why is that wrong?

You seem to think that all I want (or wanted) is to get laid. Not at all, I wanted permanence, affection, love. Which I got, too. Even if I did get laid occasionally before, that is not enough. For one thing, even the friendliest of FWB partners kicked me out (nicely) after the sex. No breakfast together, that's going too far, I imagine. I have nothing against friendly sex, but - using my trump metaphor - yes, permanence (if it is good) trumps it.

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post
Yet it sounds like you've slept with several women who were not at all interested in a relationship with you. In fact, in at least one case your relationship tendencies made things worse.
What was made worse? Yeah, I imagine if I was less intense and less focused on the future, I may have got laid a few more times. But I am what I am, and certainly won't trade my personality for sex.

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Originally Posted by onoma View Post
So what's your problem? Women want to sleep with you without wanting to be in a relationship with you. You just need to get over thinking that women want a relationship for sex. You also need to realize that you have plenty of actual qualities women have been, and will be, interested in that weren't your desire for a relationship.
I am not sure I have a problem at all, I am just revealing my thoughts.

If what you say is true, I will find a nice poly partner, hopefully soon.

Except that, if I understand poly ideology correctly, poly people still want some kind of relationship with their partners. It's the swinging set who insist on the lack of emotion. And if I want it even less personal, I can always pay for it - here in Canada, it's even legal.

Last edited by PolyLinguist; 12-05-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:59 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Hi again. Interesting discussion. I wish some others would join in!

You seem to think that all I want (or wanted) is to get laid. Not at all, I wanted permanence, affection, love.
Here's another, joining in.

After a year of being half in this poly world, here's the thing I still don't understand, and maybe you can explain. Judging by the sounds of it, you already have permanence, affection, and love from your wife. Why are you seeking it from a second person? What do you hope to gain by having these things from your wife and another woman? What will it add to your life?

I completely get an open marriage and swinging if it's the desire to have sex with other people. I completely understand happening to meet a second person, falling in love, wanting to be with them, a relationship developing, and not wanting to lose either person. (For reference, my bf has come to this much more as having been a swinger, then transitioning into him and his wife dating separately, but in reality, they've been doing this for 15 years and I'm the first genuine real-life relationship he's had, and I think it took him by surprise.)

But I have yet to understand why people decide to deliberately seek out a second relationship when they're married.

I'm just curious about your reasons for doing so.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2012, 05:22 AM
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. . . I have yet to understand why people decide to deliberately seek out a second relationship when they're married.
Hmmm, well, I'm obviously not the OP but your question struck me as a bit odd, especially on a poly board - but it's a good one. The first things that came to my mind...

Maybe married folk seek out other relationships because being married doesn't mean you're dead and not desirous of other people in your life. Maybe because having one spouse is not the be-all and end-all we've been raised to believe it is. Maybe because there is simply an urge for more. And maybe because variety is the spice of life!
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:30 AM
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Here's another, joining in.

After a year of being half in this poly world, here's the thing I still don't understand, and maybe you can explain. Judging by the sounds of it, you already have permanence, affection, and love from your wife. Why are you seeking it from a second person? What do you hope to gain by having these things from your wife and another woman? What will it add to your life?
Perfectly legitimate questions. I would get much tougher ones from relatives and friends were I to reveal my polyness to them!

Three answers, without too much elaboration:

1. Variety, just as nycindie suggests. I like my wife's cooking too, but still like to try other peoples' (and restaurants') cooking.

2. An affirmation that I can (still) get somebody to fall for me.

3. It's an adventure. In an analogous way, I am happy in Vancouver, it's safe and pleasant, so why would I want to go to explore Brazil and Japan, as I almost certainly will? It's not that I want to leave Vancouver permanently, but I would like the adventure of exploring a foreign place.

Plus, although this is not a reason, I now have the time. Until last year I worked full time, until a few years ago we still had children at home who needed my constant time and presence. That didn't leave much time for extracurricular activities.

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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I completely get an open marriage and swinging if it's the desire to have sex with other people. I completely understand happening to meet a second person, falling in love, wanting to be with them, a relationship developing, and not wanting to lose either person. (For reference, my bf has come to this much more as having been a swinger, then transitioning into him and his wife dating separately, but in reality, they've been doing this for 15 years and I'm the first genuine real-life relationship he's had, and I think it took him by surprise.)

But I have yet to understand why people decide to deliberately seek out a second relationship when they're married.

I'm just curious about your reasons for doing so.
Well, I haven't actually sought out anything yet. I go to parties and scan OK Cupid, even send little e-mails, but none of this is particularly noteworthy. (I know, many wives wouldn't see it like that, but then my wife is not like most wives).

I don't even know if I would actually go through with it if the occasion presented itself. Maybe I'd chicken out. Not to mention whether I could... (at my age, you never know, although it's not usually a problem). Wouldn't that be embarrassing!

But what I wanted to avoid is exactly the kind of situation you describe. If I wait with my declaration of "poly-hood" until I meet with someone and form some kind of emotional rapport, it is bound to become messy. Either my wife will be upset about being presented with a fait-accompli, or I hurt the other person by leading her on then backing out because I don't want to damage my marriage, or both. Of course, it could still become messy, but at least I have done some pre-thinking.

I know that this sounds cold and calculating, but I prefer to plan for contingencies rather than be the victim of circumstances.

-------------------------

Now that I have answered why at least one happily married man would look for a poly "affair", let me ask you why do you think an unmarried (or even married) woman would enter such a relationship? This was my purpose in starting this thread, after all. Don't most women want more from a relationship than what a married man can give them? Onoma seems to think that there are lots of women like that, all I need is a confident approach, less intellectualizing and maybe dress better. What do you think?
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
After a year of being half in this poly world, here's the thing I still don't understand, and maybe you can explain. Judging by the sounds of it, you already have permanence, affection, and love from your wife. Why are you seeking it from a second person? What do you hope to gain by having these things from your wife and another woman? What will it add to your life?
(...)
But I have yet to understand why people decide to deliberately seek out a second relationship when they're married.

I'm just curious about your reasons for doing so.
I want permanence, affection and love from my friendships (although I am more and more aware that permanence isn't always guaranteed, and that living in the moment is sometimes better than wanting things to stay the same forever).
I want more than 1 friendship in my life.
To me, multiple loves means I have friendships with the added bonus of physical connections (and this can range from snuggling, cuddling, kissing, making out, to full on sex).
I want more than 1 of those relationships in my life. And it turns out this is possible, whereas I used to think it wasn't, and now that I know it is possible, I want it!
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PolyLinguist View Post
Now that I have answered why at least one happily married man would look for a poly "affair", let me ask you why do you think an unmarried (or even married) woman would enter such a relationship? This was my purpose in starting this thread, after all. Don't most women want more from a relationship than what a married man can give them? Onoma seems to think that there are lots of women like that, all I need is a confident approach, less intellectualizing and maybe dress better. What do you think?
Some women, yes. Maybe most women, but not all women.
Who decided what it is the married man has to give?
One of my boyfriends is not married, but in a committed relationship with his GF (they're planning to have a baby soon, so yeah, committed).
I've never met her, I've known him for a year, but I have not, for one minute, doubted his love for me.
Our relationship defies all the standard rules that I used to think applied to relationships. But he brings me joy, love and affection. I trust him completely, in his feelings for me, and most of all I trust him to be honest with me.

One thing I've learned over the past years is that there are no blueprints for these type of relationships. You discover things as you go, and only through open communication with everyone involved, can you avoid that people get hurt because of the lack of blueprints.
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