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  #51  
Old 11-28-2012, 05:56 PM
Numina Numina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Another day another conversation.

I didn't get much sleep before work last night. About 2 hours, but talking about what's on my mind is worth the sleepiness. It's better then getting upset, emotional, or crying myself to sleep and allowing things to fester.

Finances: We came to a starting point for spending cash. Airyn admitted that he's got no head for finances and that he doesn't understand or remember what our finances are. He also says he's happy with me taking care of that, and just letting him know the bills are paid. So his dating money will be cash only.

Chipmunk:
1: Airyn's is finding it difficulty to approach Chipmunk about her bullheadedness around the things she wants. This is why things I have asked for aren't coming about in what I consider a reasonable amount of time. He was perturbed that I'm still unhappy with the situation. I pointed out that I have still not gotten what I asked for. I also told him that I don't feel it should take so much work on my end to get so little. He didn't understand. So I explained that It shouldn't have taken over a month to get the flexibility I needed/wanted over being able to have 6 uninterrupted hours with him once or twice a week. I pointed out that all I was really asking for was one day a week (Friday's), and that this is not very much.

He asked me if what I really want is more then that. I told him that my want hasn't changed much. I want 2 days a week and every other weekend. To which he say that if I mean days where Chipmunk isn't around at all that this just is not possible right now. I acknowledged that. I then explained this is why I keep trying to come up with other ways to get a significant amount of quality time with him. Like the hotel idea. Since that wasn't really in the cards I wanted my days off while she's working to be my time with him, and not to have to share so much every single day. I pointed out that her being ok with this during the week days doesn't help. When Chipmunk is closing her break is late in the afternoon, and I should be a sleep.

2: Airyn and I also talked about my resistance to feeling empathy with the things he tells me Chipmunk doesn't have that I do. First I was pointing out how reduced these things are, and how much sleep I lose to get time. Then I told him that Chipmunk has only gained in this relationship, and I have gained no positives. I didn't comment on negatives, just asked him to let me know what positives I get out of this. He pointed at Boots, and History. Ok, but how is that a gain in my relationship with Airyn? Does he think that either of these ladies is a replacement for him? No and he agreed that these lady's are not a gain in my relationship with him. He did ask if I had a good time while out with History last weekend. I told him yes, but that doesn't mean that I don't miss him because I'm out with someone else.

3: Organization, household chores: Today I pointed out that large portions of Airyn's time with me is spent on household chores, He and I cleaning house, doing laundry, straightening living spaces, and doing the dishes. I also asked how often Chipmunk contributes to these things, and got the answer I expected. It is very rare for Chipmunk to participate in household chores. and when she does it's typically the dishes when everyone is home. So I'm hugging on Airyn and laughingly telling him that he and I have the shitty taking care of the house end of the relationship. He acknowledged that this is so, and expressed some frustration with the whole thing. Telling me it's been a long while since Chipmunk did any dishes, even the ones she uses for one thing or another.

His part of the house chores has been greatly increased. He prefers a clean organized living environment. Not everyone does, but he is happier when our living spaces are clean and neat. He was very please with the bedroom after I sorted Chipmunk's, Wolf, and our laundry. Once done I put two totes of Chipmunks laundry into the closet that is mostly hers. We still have some things in there, but they are items that are hardly used, and don't take up too much space. I won't remark on the state of this closet expect to say that it has seen better days.The volume of laundry that would have been done with out Chipmunk's contribution, one tote. I told Airyn that he has been complaining at me regularly about it. That for months I have been pointing out the state of my things, and saying tactically that I'm not causing this. He asked why I'm suddenly concerned, and I told him that it's starting to grate on my nerves. That I know his preference for organization, and I make an effort to reduce my clutter tendencies. That it irks me when Chipmunk giggles and comments about him pick up behind her again (which had just happened that morning). I told him that he really needs to be figuring out how to talk to her about this. That he might start by requesting/suggesting that she at least pick up once or twice a week. I also told him that I was going to try to avoid bring it up again. So lets see how I do with that.

I also acknowledged again that I'm working on my communication. That I know I lean heavily towards confrontational, angry, and emotional. I get it, I'm working on it. I also told him that I feel that over all things, on that front, are better then they were two months ago. So progress is being made even if it's some what slowish.

I'm kinda putting it out there that Airyn isn't as responsible for Chipmunk as he thinks he is. That the ideal we talked about before she moved in, the promises made on all fronts. These things were naive of us (all of us). I told him that even if Chipmunk had moved in under ideal conditions (more space) that things would not have been wonderful and rosy. There are always issue that come up between people learning to live together. He has been telling me regularly how we talked Chipmunk in to this, that we told her how great and wonderful things could be. I reminded him that it isn't just what we pictured that fell through, it is also what she offered, what she represented, and expressed her interest in that fell through. I told him that our ideal was always to have a triad with three diads, that it was never supposed to be two diads, that this would never have happened if Chipmunk hadn't offer me something from the beginning. If she had only shown interest in him there would have been NO poly relationship considerations. I was reminding him of another blog on these boards that had started in a similar fashion, but with many strict (to us) boundaries. I told him that those boundaries would never have occurred to us, because that was not within what we saw as our Ideal in poly. I had expressed to Airyn, and Chipmunk that I could see a place where there was space for the three of us to be together, or for any two to have space to be just two as wanted/needed. So some of the boundaries that new to poly married couples start with wouldn't have been on our radar.

I also pointed out that as far as I can tell she has mostly gained things within this relationship. Sure there are things she would like to have that are rarely available/offered. The point is that for the first time in her life she is living free of parental control, and has the freedom to do the things she wants (get tattoos, go out with her friends when she chooses to, drink, ect). I also tell him that she also has a great man in her life which we know is something she has never had. She has never had a man take care of her, and treat her the way he does. I remind him who her greatest love was before him, and how that guy cheated on her multiply times. How she told us She has never been able to actually fall a sleep in bed with a guy. I tell him that if this love is the one all guys since have to met or beat he has very much surpassed that relationship. I also point at that she told us she was celibate for over a year before we came into her life, and that the fellow she was with after moving to Texas were little more then one night stands. At the most these fellows were after her for sex once or twice then gone within a month (from her volunteered descriptions). He seemed a bit surprised by this, but couldn't argue. I don't think he had looked at things from this perspective before.

He did admit that there were times he had to step back from one suggestion of mine or another and really think about it. So maybe when he and I talk next he'll see things differently where Chipmunk is concerned. Maybe realizing that we have done the right thing by her will help him get past some of his worries. She is now has a job that she can turn into a career if she chooses to, she is now more financially independent then she has ever been. Airyn asked if she isn't like we were at her age. I told him that at her age we had Wolf, and were making ends meet for the most part on our own. We did have to get help from family for a short time, and I readily admitted that. I also pointed out that we were paying our bills, buying food, and keeping shared spaces clean. I also reminded him that when my car broke down I only relied on his family for about a month to get me to work before I replaced our vehicle, and remarked that Chipmunk has yet to start saving for a vehicle. That she has been expecting us to get her from place to place for 4 months. That she is an adult is capable of getting herself to and from work without being driven there by us. Other adult with out vehicle of there own us there feet, buy a bicycle, or a scooter, or use public transportation to get around. Sure it's nice of use to do this, but he should not expect me to plan every moment around Chipmunks desire to be driven to work by us.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:19 AM
Numina Numina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Roommate????

I had been looking forward to Friday (Nov. 30th), I was trying not to get my hopes up. This past Friday was to be my second Friday where Airyn would not being leave to bring Chipmunk lunch in the middle of OUR day. Airyn had made comments about us getting some actual time together as well. So we were both looking forward to it.

I had put together an outfit in my head for sexy wear. I intended to change while Airyn was driving Chipmunk to work. Some how I ended up going with them to Chipmunk's job. We were going to pick up a couple things there, and Chipmunk wanted to get a few things for us to bring home. So we go in I pick up what i was looking for, and chipmunk does her shopping. We get to the register, and it's a newer fellow. He recognizes Chipmunk and Airyn as boyfriend and Girlfriend. Chipmunk has told many of her co-workers that Airyn is her boyfriend, so that was no surprise.

Up till this point it had been a good day. Then this cashier asked Airyn who I was. Airyn is on the spot. We both know that Chipmunk is uncomfortable disclosing the dynamic of our relationship. She has not said anything about it, she has only ACTED uncomfortable. So we are Mind readering this. Never a good thing. When Chipmunk first told us that she had told co-workers that Airyn was her boyfriend. I told Airyn that was fine as long as I wasn't made to feel uncomfortable being obviously in a relationship with him too (when ever he and I are there).

So this cashier asks his question. Airyn looks at me and say, Numina (he of course used my real name). "she's a roommate."

I was so pissed. I couldn't look at him, at Chipmunk, or at the cashier. We walked out with our bags. I was seething. It was obvious to both of them. Airyn's trying to tell me how surprised he was by that question, and that roommate was a good non answer. I told him I'm not your F'ing ROOMMATE. It only takes a couple mins to get home. And I'm saying things to Airyn like: Glad to know how you feel about me, and that your still more concerned with how Chipmunk feels then with how I feel. AS we are getting out of the car he tells me Great you've just ruined our day together. I still won't look at him, and say, "I RUINED OUR DAY?"

We get inside, and I tell him I'm going to sit on the balcony, he goes in and gets in the shower. But I'm very upset. Once again I'm stuck with the shitty end of things, and Chipmunk has gotten what she wants. So I go back in and curl up on the bed in tears. Airyn gets out of the shower, and is sounds shocked that I'm so upset. He goes back to telling me how he was on the spot, and didn't know what to say. That he knew someone was going to be upset no matter what he said. I told him that it was nice he chose me. To which he says he didn't. So I point out that he made Chipmunks day, and I'm the one being told I'm just a roommate. He talks about it being Chipmunk's job, and how he didn't want to make her uncomfortable at her job. I told him that I had already talked to him about this. That I told him it wouldn't be cool if I was ever made to feel uncomfortable because he and I have a relationship now that she has called him her boyfriend. That it is Chipmunk who chose not to consider how this could be an issue.

I told him that I'm tired of being his second consideration. That I'm tired of this whole thing. That I have tried to be considerate, and fair to their relationship. That they are both still not treating me fairly. We are both really heated, and Airyn is saying he's tired of having to be so careful of very one. I ask him when has he ever said something publicly that upset Chipmunk, or belittled her relationship to him? Things do calm down, Airyn Apologizes multiple times. Tells me the question caught him off guard, and he didn't know what to do. That neither of us was saying anything. I asked why he could just say the truth. his answer wasn't a good one either. He says that he's not the kind of person who can go out and chose to be an ass to chipmunk, that he can't just go, oh your not so important, so I'm going to say something I know will upset you. I say I can understand that, and ask why it's then ok to do exactly that to me. Why is he OK with doing that to me. He says he's not. And I tell him that his words and acts tell me other wise.

In the end he tells me that next time he'll just stand there and look at Chipmunk and leave it to her to answer. I told him I didn't say I was his wife because Chipmunk has acted as if that makes her uncomfortable, and hasn't talked with us about what can be said. She hasn't given it any thought. That it is disrespectful to me as a person, and to my relationship with him. I also tell him that I don't deserve to be treated this way, and that I won't be going up there with the two of them ever again, that I may not even be willing to go up there with just him. I point out that Chipmunk got that job because I introduced her to people at this store. That he and I have been frequent patrons there for a long time. This is our local place. He and I have been seen as a couple all this time, and now she's going around calling him her boyfriend, and not considering how she will handle being questioned about my connection to Airyn.

Airyn has a conversation with Chipmunk afterwards. He tells me what he intends to tell her, and the tells me about the conversation after talking to her. That he said that this time, but never again, she will have to figure out what to say on her own next time. He also tell her that her attitude towards me in general has been crappy, and she needs to watch her self, and get over what ever it is. He tells me he reminder her that I am getting nothing out of this relationship. He also tells me that she came back to him saying that she needed to hear that, and that her irritation with me started with my mood swings. I ask him if she has any idea what causes (or caused) what she is calling mood swings. He says they didn't talk about that, and so he doesn't know.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:21 AM
Numina Numina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default The next day.

Saturday morning I just want to have a good day. And thinking this I decide not to get up super early. So we all wake up together, and are snuggling. I'm fondling Airyn. And Chipmunk is tickling him. we have a good morning. Chipmunk is then off to spend the afternoon with her mom. Airyn and i work on the house. Getting the living room, and bedroom together. I suggest he and I take a shower together. I tell him not for sex, but for closeness, intimacy, and cuddling. He agrees. We take Wolf to school for her play, come home kick our shows off and head to the bathroom. Before we can start our shower Chipmunk walks in. We are surprised as she more then an hour early, but just roll with it. I tell Airyn when he comes to me concerned about it that it's no big deal we weren't planning to do anything other then take a shower. So we tell chipmunk that we are getting in the shower, but there's not as much closeness as I had wanted. It's just off a bit due to the unexpected return of Chipmunk. She had said she's be out till after 4pm. *shrug* things happen.

We walk to the school to see Wolfs play. Airyn and I walk fast, he has long legs, and doesn't like to walk slowly. Chipmunk walks slower most of the time. So she's behind me, and I'm walking a relaxed, but quick pace. Airyn is walking on the far side of Chipmunk aways from me, and ends up walking beside Chipmunk holding hands. The sidewalks are small no chance of three people walking side by side without walking in the street or in peoples yards. No big deal. We watch Wolf's play, it was cute, and funny. She did a good job on her part. We walk home. Wolf is all excited, and bubbly walking well ahead of us. Again Airyn is walking behind me with Chipmunk, and they are mostly holding hands.

At home he reminds me that he has a pit stop he wants to make as something special he wants to show me and Wolf before we go over to Just a Guys place for the evening. he says he's bring his camera and tripod so he can get out and get pictures. Then he's telling Chipmunk that he hopes she doesn't mind, that it doesn't annoy her that we'll have to find parking so we can get out and walk around so he can get pictures. I look at them funny. I tell Airyn that should he be seeing if it's ok with me since I'll be the one driving and having to find a place to park? After Friday's fiasco and me explaining that I'm tired of being his second thought I figure I should speak up. I'm thinking Chipmunk is a passenger, why would she care if I have to search for parking. If she doesn't want to get out and walk around then she can stay in the car.

A few hours later we head out, and he's giving me directions. We end up in downtown to see the holiday lights they have put up. Find a place to park, get out and walk over. Airyn has his camera, and tripod. We start walking. The sidewalks are larger here, but still he ends up behind me walking with Chipmunk, and holding hands (not as much hand holding as he's trying to take pictures). I'm a bit sad, and kinda put out. He had said he was taking me and Wolf here, but he's acting as if he is OUT with Chipmunk, and not so much OUT with me. Then we stop some where. I have a phobia. I know logically it makes no sense, but can't help my reaction. Well i get confronted with it while in down town, and have to get away. I start looking panickedly for an out. And as I'm getting out more of my phobia comes my way. I squeal. Can't help it, and am at the corner of the half a street away from them before I can stop and turn around.

Airyn knows what's up, but it's never come up before so Chipmunk is confused. I see Airyn explaining it to her. When he's done getting the photo's he wants they all head my way. I'm hugging myself tight. Airyn gives me hugs, and tries to tell me it wasn't so bad. I tell him they were following me. which makes him laugh. I tell him It makes no sense, I should so be able to crush them under my feet, but I just can't. So we walk about half way to the next street corner with his arm around me. Chipmunk is behind us, and he leaves to go walk beside her. I look back to see where he went, he is taking photo's after all. But he's behind me holding hands with Chipmunk again. *sigh* Wolf comes over and gives me hugs, and we head back to the car.

Over at Just a Guys we tell him about the lights, and suggest he go see them before the holidays are over. We set up a board game, and I lean over to Airyn and tell him that next time we are all out walking together it would be Nice if he was with ME. He tells me I could have gotten on his other side and held his other hand. I point out that he has never been ok with that. If he's not out walking hand in hand with both me and Wolf how is it ok with Chipmunk. And besides there wasn't really room for that the first walk we took. I tell him I'm just asking for the same treatment from him to me next time we are all out walking together.

Much later we call it a night and head home again. Chipmunk says she's headed to bed, and Airyn tells me he's staying up for a while. That he's thinking of moving his PC back to the bedroom. I say ok, and decide to stay up with him for a bit. He heads to the bedroom to talk with Chipmunk as she gets into bed. After a while I'm thinking he's changed his mind, so I head to the bedroom thinking to join them and get some sleep. I walk in and Airyn is on top of the covers snuggling and talk with Chipmunk who is under the covers. I head to my dresser, and start kicking off my shoes. Then Chipmunk tells Airyn, I need my phone, my purse. they are in the other room, and she reaches for her laptop. Saying she has to put it in sleep mode. Airyn leaves the room to go get Chipmunk's phone, and purse. I'm not happy now. She's not asking him she's telling, demanding. I've just walked in the room, and she sends him out to get her things that she chose not to bring with her when she walked in the door. She walks in sets her stuff down, announces she going to bed. Goes to the bedroom. Has Aryn's undivided attention for about 15 mins. I walk in the room and she sends him a way. No please, no thank you just I need my stuff?

I walk out and ask (where chipmunk can hear me) if he is still going to move his computer to the bedroom. He says yeah, and I head tot he kitchen start doing some dishes. He brings Chipmunks things to her, and then comes out to check on me. Asks whats up. I tell him, I'm obviously angry, he tells me to relax that he doesn't what to hear about how I'm right. That he just had a conversation with Chipmunk about her attitude towards me and now he's telling me I need to relax. I tell him that I'm not in there going off, I walked out here. I'm doing what I can. Eventually we head to bed. But these two situations really bother me. Once again my weekend isn't good like it should be. I'm tired of it.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #54  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:22 AM
Numina Numina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Time for some Changes.

So I have written her a long email. She is very hard to talk to, and there is never anything close to a conversation going on. Every time I have attempted to have a conversation with her about this relationship, or the things going on it has been just me talking. She barely responds, and when she does it is either very negative, a no comment type response, or conflict with something she said earlier in the conversation.

I talked to Airyn about my email, and asked him to read it. To let me know what he thinks, if I'm being too harsh or going over board. I also tell him that it covers basically everything he and I have talked about on and off for a few weeks. He reads it, corrects some grammar, misspellings and the like. When he's done he tells me that it's fine. That everything I've said is true, and that he agrees with all of it. His only suggestion is that I need to wrap it up at the end, and that I should say something positive. That it ends too abruptly, and on a negative note. So I add a better ending, Airyn is still not really happy with it, but he leaves it alone. We talk about when a good time to send it to her is. He tells me that he intends to tell Chipmunk to read it like 5 times, and that he agrees with the whole thing and not to be looking to him to comfort her. I tell him it's ok if she feels she needs comfort, so long as she realizes the he's not going to be telling her that I'm being unreasonable.

We decide that since Tuesday (yesterday) is her day off, and we are taking her to an appointment to get her first Tattoo that I should wait to send it till I'm going to bed. I explain that I want her to have time to read it, think about it, and talk to him about it before she has to see me again. So it's agreed.

Tuesday morning I'm getting Wolf ready for school, and Chipmunk wakes up. Telling me that she woke up early worrying because I wasn't home yet. I remind her that this time of year is really hectic at work, and it's normal for me to be a little late. I tell her that I'm walking Wolf to school, and will get them up just after 8am when I get home. I'm making breakfast, and tell her that I'll make coffee to wake Airyn with. As I'm leaving she says she'll make sure Airyn gets up. I tell her that it's ok it's still really early and we have plenty of time.

I get home and they are in the shower. I change and head back to the kitchen to cook pancakes (I made the batter before I left), and I start brewing Airyn's coffee. When they get out of the shower, I'm hurrying around the kitchen. Airyn comes in for kisses, and tells me he had a nightmare about me. I ask what happened. He says that he dreamt I didn't come home, and he went out to search for me. I nod and give him hugs, and tell him I've had a bad one about him to. That I dreamt that I came home and he wasn't there. He asked if that was last night. I tell him no it was a couple nights ago. Give him another hug, and tell him that yesterday (Monday) was a good day. He agrees and we talk about that for a couple mins. Then he goes back to the bedroom to finish getting ready.

We go into downtown. Everyone is in a good mood, find parking and arrive right on time for Chipmunk's appointment. She talks with her tattoo artist. We are at his private, studio. It's his shop and is very private, his also a nice guy. I had not met such a happy tattoo artist before. So they discuss the tattoo a min, he places the outline image on her, and lays her on a swivel bed thing. it takes two hours, and we chat and goof off while he's working. Airyn is taking photos. Then the artist asks how we all know each other. Chipmunk answers by saying that she is our roommate. I look at her funny, and say that the two of them meet in a photography class. We all start talking about photography, and the conversation moves on.

When we are done we go to Just a Guys place to show her tattoo off. On our way Chipmunk wants to stop for lunch. It's decided to stop for Pizza in Deep ellum, and bring it to Just a Guy's place. We let Just a Guy know, get our Pizza, and meet him at his place for lunch. He's on his lunch break from his at home PC job, so we hang out for a while. It's a HUGE pizza, and we are all tired and lethargic afterwords. So the three of us head home. When we get home Airyn helps Chipmunk lube and re-cover her new tattoo, and Chipmunk lays down for a nap.

While she is napping I help Airyn put together his resume for Just a Guy to refer him and possibly get Airyn an at home PC job like Just a Guy now has. Then I talk to Airyn about how the day went. I tell him that it was a good day. That Chipmunk still hasn't talked to me about how to handle our relationships when someone asks. I tell him that she didn't need to call herself a roommate while being tattooed that she could have answered the question he actually asked, and not tried to explain our living arrangement. Airyn just laughed, and said that at least she's taking their last conversation seriously. I tell him she missed the point. I also tell him that I don't want to ruin her night with my email, but that I still need to send it to her. He tells me that I can put it off for a while and send it later if I'd like.

I reread it, make a couple changes and changing how it ends to include the Tattoo thing, and have Airyn read what I added. He likes it and says it's a better ending. That he didn't think I really got what he was saying yesterday about ending it on a lighter, happier note. So we talk about my possibly sending it when I leave for work. This still gives them a couple hours to talk about it, and doesn't end the nice evening that it's looking like they could have.

I'll copy the whole email into here in another post.

So I get up for work, and still feel awkward about the email. They were laughing and having a good time watching a show together. So we talk about putting it off again. i tell him that I have to send it. That if i don't I'm being hypocritical when I say that I'm working on, and doing better with my communication. We decide to wait till the next day so that she can read it when she gets home from work, and have time to talk with Airyn about it while they have peace, and quite. Wolf and I will both be asleep. I'll be getting up a couple hours after she gets home, but will only be home for a few mins before I leave for work. This sounds like it will work, but Airyn says he's going to tell Chipmunk that I'm sending her this email so she has a heads up. I tell him he has access to my email if he feels sending it to her right after telling her about the email is better then he can do that.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:35 AM
Numina Numina is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default The email to Chipmunk. Part 1

Subject: Being Poly, Living with a family

First I have shared this entire email with Airyn, feel free to talk with him first. I understand that text does not convey tone of voice, and that you'll give tone to my words based on how you feel. Still I have chosen email as I have an easier time talking this way right now. It's something I'm working on, but I've found writing what I want to say down has helped a lot. I feel just sending this to you gives you time to read, think, and consider your response. It also allows you to talk with Airyn about how you feel before approaching me. Do I expect you to email, or talk with me via chat/text, or face to face? I have no expectation right now. I hope that I will at the very least hear something back directly from you, and not secondhand from Airyn. I will not be surprised if Airyn talks to me before you do however.

So where to start?

Basic/common Models for Polyamorous relationships. Please read the information in the following link. (link) It will help you understand what I am saying. At least Part 1 and part 2, part 3 is irrelevant to our situation, but the information is a good basis for where many poly-relationships can find themselves.

The relationship type/structure that I originally expressed to you when we discussed poly very closely resembles #2a. Multiple Primary Partners, Polyfidelity model - closed Multi-adult Families

I feel as if this is what I still want, but since it's not what I have I am being asked to find something else. What is happening right now doesn't directly fit into any of the basic categories offered by this site. It's a mix of two of the Multi Primary partner sub categories. I must say I'm not comfortable with this at all. I do not like the idea of Airyn having a second primary partner (which is how he explains this relationship). As you can see however, My relationship with Airyn is not requiring your relationship with Airyn to end because I'm dealing with icky feeling over the structure of his other relationship. Nor is my relationship with Airyn calling for an end to your relationship due to the sever lack of time he has to be in a relationship with me (considering the amount of time we had before attempting poly).

I am also finding it difficult to consider actually finding/pursuing a secondary relationship for myself outside of the model I was originally looking for. I am trying to find a way to be comfortable/happy with the idea. Sometimes it appeals to me, and some times it doesn't. These are some of the icky, unhappy, confusing feelings I deal with regularly. They are my feelings, I can not control how I feel. All I can do is decide how to react to the way I am feeling. In this case I have chosen to point out to you the negative possibilities that I have not chosen.

I think that you and Airyn both have forgotten, or not considered something important. That it is not just that I am not getting anything out of your relationship with Airyn, but that I'm not getting what I wanted (what I explained) when Airyn and I offered you a relationship. That I have watched the two of you fall in love, and I am confronted every day with the relationship you two have. That I wanted to be apart of this, that this was supposed to be a family of three adults living together with the time, and space for our triad (you, me, and Airyn), and three diads ( you and Me, You and Airyn, Me and Airyn). That despite my ideals being shattered I have been working to allow you to have a relationship with Airyn. To find a way to be ok with my shatter desire staring me in the face every day. It doesn't just make me sad it makes me cry. Even now while I'm writing this I'm fighting to not get emotional. I am being asked to bend and contort so that you and Airyn can have your relationship. So that you and I can share space while not having a relationship of our own.

From where I am sitting you have mostly positives in this situation. You have a great man in Airyn. You have gained personal freedom. You have gained things in your relationship with Airyn that you have expressed you were not comfortable with, or did not have in other relationships. Feeling comfortable enough to fall asleep with a man, knowing that your guy isn't going to cheat on you. Having intimacy with emotions (love) and not a loveless or one-night-stand type situation. You told us you had basically been celibate for more then a year when we came into your life. You are also living with your partner for the first time ever. Because you moved in with us you now have a decent paycheck, and will soon have your own health care. You are becoming self sufficient, and could become independent. What positives do I have in this? I don't see them so if you do please share them with me (and Airyn).

I told you honestly that I view us as broken up. That I need time and space to deal with the unhappiness that comes with breaking up. I also honestly talked to you about needs versus wants. That I have needs/wants that are not being met right now. That I recognize you have needs/wants. That I need you to speak up and be willing to talk about your needs/wants and take a realistic approach to what can and can not happen right now. I also explained that I am ok with being flexible around my wants, and that I expect you to be flexible as well.

What I am finding instead is that I have to force compromise around your wants. That you are unwilling to talk about your wants/needs. I am seeing an inability to talk about even minor things. Like revealing your relationship with Airyn at work. Consider this, after you first told us that you were calling Airyn your boyfriend at work (wholefoods), I told Airyn I was fine with that so long as I was not made to feel uncomfortable being in a relationship with him openly while at your job. He and I spoke about it briefly and I left it at that. My problem is that you two never spoke about it, and we never spoke of it. The only input Airyn and I have had from you on your feelings sharing my relationship with Airyn at your job? That you are uncomfortable. That's it, and we figured this out by your actions not by your words. So yes I was PISSED that Airyn called me his roommate. In effect allowing you to have easy to deal with feelings, and leaving me with the icky of having my relationship belittled because of how uncomfortable you are, and your lack of willingness to communicate with either of us.

This situation was a difficult one for Airyn to be put in. His response was not acceptable to me, but (I'm assuming) was acceptable to you. I chose not to speak up because my response would have been the truth, "I'm his wife", and I understood you to be uncomfortable revealing that information. You chose not to respond. Why? Don't know. From where I am sitting this whole thing shows a lack of respect to my relationship with Airyn. It tells me you still are not willing to talk about or deal with icky feeling in regards to our separate relationships with Airyn. This in not acceptable to me. It was a thoughtless place to put both myself, Airyn, and in the long run you.

Think about this for a minute. Why are you in a relationship with Airyn? Not why now, but why at all? Would you be in a relationship with Airyn now if you had expressed interest in just Airyn from the very beginning? Did Airyn and I mislead you in what we wanted, expected of you within this relationship? Did we make it clear that we wanted you to be family?

Did we hide the fact that we have a kid, and live in a one bedroom apartment? Did we ever tell you that if it didn't work out the way we wanted you'd be out on your ass? Or did we tell you about our home, and family, and offer you a place to live as a member of the family, and tell you you'd never have to move back in with your mom?

Does this mean you can run willy nilly over all the expectations we expressed in the beginning now that our desired relationship structure has fallen apart? No. I expect to be treated honestly, respectfully, and with thoughtfulness on your part. I expect this all the time. Not just when it is easy, convenient, and not when a few icky feelings could occur, but always. Especially where icky feelings can occur.

Examples:
No Icky feelings likely: Deciding to purchase something for one individual within the household (Ice Cream purchased with each person in mind), or food stuffs for the family. These are nice thoughtful things that I appreciate, but they are not likely to provoke any icky feelings within any member of this household.

Icky feelings not as likely: You choose to cook/bake. I love food, and anything you choose to make that everyone is able to eat is always appreciated. Cooking is not likely to create icky feelings for any one in this household. However resentment can occur if the cleanup from cooking is always left to one person. If Airyn continually has to clean up behind you, and my time with him is spent helping clean then resentment for your presence is likely.

Icky feelings likely: Deciding to call Airyn your boyfriend at a business he and I have frequented for a long time, without considering how that might cause icky feeling to one or both of us (you and I) when my relationship with Airyn comes up. Not planning for the event of being ask about me, and my relationship to Airyn.

Icky feeling likely: Continuing to be disorganized in all shared spaces of our home while knowing that at least one member of the household prefers neat clean spaces. You have noticed that I am not the neatest person, but should also have noticed that I attempt to contain my lack of neatness and organization. It irks me to spend part of my alone time with Airyn cleaning up shared spaces, and finding often that it is mostly your things we are putting away.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #56  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Default The email to Chipmunk. Part 2

On Tone of Voice, politeness versus rudeness:

We live in a household containing four distinct individuals, one child, and three adults. We all have different expectations, and wants within our relationship to each other. When I hear you speaking to Airyn in a tone of voice I consider to be demanding, it irritates me. What I feel I am hearing often is your demanding tone of voice coupled with a lack of polite terms. I often do not here please, or thank you's. Airyn may be willing to let these things go and have a relationship with you on his terms in his fashion. The problem is that you do not live with just Airyn. You live with Me and with Takara. To me it is inappropriate for you to demand Airyn do things for you, it shows me you lack respect for him as a person, and respect for his other relationships. Takara should not hear and see her father being treated this way, she is not allowed to talk to her dad like that. So what happens if she starts following your bad examples? More arguments between her and her parents over her disrespectful attitude. If you had a relationship where these things occur without being witnessed by myself and Takara, then Airyn's willingness to allow you this would not be an issue. This is not the case, and I expect respectful thoughtful speech. Airyn is not a maid, manservant, or butler, nor does he belong to you. He is his own person with his own thoughts, needs, wants, desires, and feelings. If you'd like him to do something, or get/bring you something, ask him. I am also my own person, and will not continue to tolerate this lack of respect.


Above all:
You are an adult, you are responsible for your actions, for your inaction's, for your communication, for your miscommunication, and lack of communication. You are responsible for owning how you feel, and discussing what you want/need.

Here's an example (that I like) for what a polyamorous person expects/needs within a poly-relationship. (GalaGirl from Polyamory.com) GalaGirl has an interesting way of writing, but I think her point comes across just fine.

-----------------------------------------------
I value people's worth/dignity. It demands respect. In relationship I want

PARTNERS HAVE RIGHT TO:
Clear communication
Expect support from partner
Be nurtured
Get needs met
Responsiveness
Constructive feedback
Constructive conflict resolution

PARTNERS EACH BE RESPONSIBLE FOR:
Know and state needs, wants and limits
Follow thru on promises
Know the math tiers in this config
Your own and your partner's healths: mental, emotional, physical, spiritual
Emergency preparedness
Care for own equipment/stuff
Tell if keeping a confidence can hurt someone/is hurting someone

MY LIMITS

A) No lying / lies of omission. 1 strike you are out. Just hard truth it to me.

B) Anything else I'll negotiate on 3 strikes you are out. More? You are not a "give serious try" player who gives holds up responsibilities and gives me my fair rights. Don't play with me. Bye.
-------------------------------------------------

I understand you have trouble with communication, I also struggle with communication. The difference between us? I have acknowledged my difficulty, and am making attempts to communicate better. It's a work in progress, but I think it's obvious that I am working on it. However I do not see you stepping up to this issue. Owning it as they say on the polyforums. Owning it means acknowledging the issue, and working to get better at it. As I stated last time we had a discussion, if you need to talk to Airyn about it for a week or a month, ok. Talk about it, and be willing to talk to me if you need Airyn to be present that is fine. Make attempts, and acknowledge UP FRONT that you are working on communication, and that what you are saying is difficult for you. If you can start doing this, it will make my attempts to talk with you about things large and small easier.

Here's the biggest thing for me, Your ability to have an intimate relationship with Airyn directly relates to the happiness and health within my relationship to Airyn. While I am Happy with Airyn, I am not happy within this current dynamic. So there is stress, strain, and moodiness. There has been much moodiness from both of us from the very beginning, but I'll not start pointing these things out or laying blame anywhere. We all chose to be where we are at this moment. It is therefore up to all of us to work at this relationship so everyone can be as happy, healthy, and as comfortable as our current situation allows.


Basically I am saying stop expecting me to be considerate, and thoughtful in my words, and actions towards your relationship to Airyn if you are unwilling to do the same.
I understand that this is the first time you have lived outside of parental control, influence, and support. This does not mean that you can live with a family as though you are living on your own. You have to think about the other people you live with, not just some times, all the time. You have to consider how your actions can effect the people you are living with. I have offered you honest communication. Even when it has been difficult for me to admit that I am feeling insecure, needy, or lacking of personal confidence. I have told you these things, I have spent days, weeks even talking to Airyn and figuring out how to talk to you in a way that is less argumentative and confrontational. For the most part I feel I have been successful on my side of communication.

The problem is that communication takes more then just one person. If I am talking to you, and the only responses I get are "I don't know", non committal, overtly negative, or confusing it makes it difficult to continue to attempt to communicate. If you chose to leave a conversation without being clear in how you feel, and you also choose not to come back to me to discuss your thoughts and feeling then effective communication is lacking. I can not read minds.

*Telling me you don't know what you want/need. Then demanding Airyn provide you with your wants without ever coming to either of us to discuss what is possible and reasonable is not effective communication. (your requirement that Airyn bring you lunch because of your unrealistic inability to bring your lunch on your own)

*Telling me three different things during the course of one conversation, and then choosing not to clarify afterwards, or during that conversation is not effective communication. (how often you expect me to allow you and Airyn to have the bedroom in the mornings to yourselves)

* Expecting me to always ask you how you feel, what you want, and choosing to never ask me how I feel, or what I want is not effective communication.

*Choosing to be negative, and unwilling to compromise, or consider what is being discussed/suggested is very ineffective communication. That is shutting down communication, and without you choosing to bring the subject up again that subject becomes dead. Especially with someone who is struggling to communicate better. (I can think of several, but the most recent would be my attempt at discussing viewing porn together, and later when I asked you if you'd be paying on Kohl's this pay-period or next and how you responded to each. Both times you chose not to come back to me with a more positive attitude, and the last time I came back to you with it out of necessity.)

This is how I feel, this is my situation how as I see it. I can not control how I feel I can only choose to act in as considerate a fashion as is available to me at the moment I have uncomfortable feelings. If the best choice is to leave the room, then that is what I will do. If you notice that I'm in a foul mood it is then your choice how you react to that. I would like for you to read this, consider what I am says and how I am feeling. Then come to me so we can talk. I would like to find a way to be friendly more often, to do things together without the angst that has been growing between us. We (or at least I) have good days, when everything seems to be aligning on the positive side of life. I want more days like this, more happy days, where neither of us is upset, or stressed, or irritated. This is a difficult situation to be in. We both need to work at making things better at home. We both need to work at communicating properly with each other. We both need to curb our less then happy tendencies. I know we can do this, but we have to start soon before things can go badly again.

Today, you answered a question about how we all know each other by saying that you are a roommate of ours. That was not necessary. This is one of those things we need to talk about, so we can find the right language so that we can all have the happy easy feelings when talking about our relationships to outsiders. First you could have answered his actual question of where we met (in School), and not attempted to explain our living arrangements. Second you could have said we are all best friends. Not entirely accurate, but also very much correct. This answer would allow for any level of public displays of affection without any questions, or odd looks. I am comfortable with people knowing about our poly dynamic. I would be comfortable with telling Blink that you are Airyn's Girlfriend, and I am his wife. It is you who puts out that you are uncomfortable with disclosing this information. Talk to me, tell me what you are comfortable with so we can find language that makes us BOTH happy.

Numina
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:50 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Things I have learned

Anyone reading the Email I am sending to Chipmunk will see the links and know that this information has come from these forums. You can also see my terminology comes from this forum. I have learned alot here. And I feel that I've used what I've learned in this email effectively.

I hope my adjusted links work. I decided not to link directly to GalaGirls profile (which is where I got her expectations within poly) Because I know that Chipmunk does not have an account here, and i do not expect her to create one. I don't see her taking the time to read any of my suggested forums ever. I have sent more then one email linking to good reading on these forums, but as far as i can tell she hasn't bother to look at any of them. *sigh*

I am so ready to be done with her. When we have a good day it's good, nice and everything feels like it can really work. Then something happens and the illusion gets shattered.

I'll be talking to Airyn again soon. I'm not sure that i can continue like this. He told me after I broke up with Chipmunk, that maybe asking me to find a way to make it work for the next several months was asking to much. I told him then that all I can do is try. So I've been tring, but I'm tired.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #58  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:51 AM
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Phy Phy is offline
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Default

Hey there.

I have been reading along since you started this blog and I feel like speaking up now.

From the way you describe things in your life and what is happening right now, I feel quite concerned. Your tone is getting rougher and more tense and you mind things, I feel you wouldn't gotten as upset about some weeks ago. This is taking its turn on you and I fear that things will get ugly faster than later by now.

You need your time and space. It becomes clearer and clearer and I would try to make that possible soon. Chipmunk is obviously getting on your nerves and it won't take long till every little thing she does, says, thinks will cause major upset for you.

And I think that Ayrin did the right thing to consider Chipmunks work situation before his commitment towards you. Its her direct surrounding and a place she needs to get along as well as possible with people. I understand that it hurts and I hate being oblivious towards my partner Lin as well for the sake of my husband occasionally or the other way round, but that's just common sense in those cases. But you are right about her behaviour. She needs to grow up and mind the consequences of her actions. I totally get your frustration with her and Ayrin for 'protecting' her.

In regard to the second day and the walking while holding hands part: Just speak up. And do so in the given moment at hand. If Chipmunk doesn't know what causes your 'mood-swings' and Ayrin doesn't get you as well from time to time, speak up when the situation arises. It will cause some unpleasant days and maybe will ruin a date or two, but they aren't mind readers as well. Tell them what makes you uncomfortable and don't take some unproductive consideration for the other relationship when yours is strained so much.

I hope you will be able to sort this out and find a liveable solution in the nearest future.

Edit: Oh dear, there was more to come, I was answering the shopping incidence and the date for photos.
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Facts: 30, female, bi, v-type relationship with Sward (husband, straight, mono) and Lin (boyfriend, straight, mono), poly-fi and co-primary.

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  #59  
Old 12-05-2012, 03:21 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Thanks Phy, I needed to hear that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
From the way you describe things in your life and what is happening right now, I feel quite concerned. Your tone is getting rougher and more tense and you mind things, I feel you wouldn't gotten as upset about some weeks ago. This is taking its turn on you and I fear that things will get ugly faster than later by now.

You need your time and space. It becomes clearer and clearer and I would try to make that possible soon. Chipmunk is obviously getting on your nerves and it won't take long till every little thing she does, says, thinks will cause major upset for you.
This is most likely true. I feel I have been willing to work to make this easier. I also feel as if I am not being considered. Not really that I'm being taken advantage of, more like Chipmunk (and sometime Airyn) are thinking I have a heart of stone, and won't be bothered by how they act or the things they say. This isn't so, and things need to change, or this will end sooner rather then later, naturally, or not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
And I think that Ayrin did the right thing to consider Chipmunks work situation before his commitment towards you. Its her direct surrounding and a place she needs to get along as well as possible with people. I understand that it hurts and I hate being oblivious towards my partner Lin as well for the sake of my husband occasionally or the other way round, but that's just common sense in those cases. But you are right about her behaviour. She needs to grow up and mind the consequences of her actions. I totally get your frustration with her and Airyn for 'protecting' her.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You've made some points that let me know I missed something.

From what you are saying I think I may have left something important out. I have NO issue with Chipmunk calling Airyn her boyfriend to her friends, family, or co-worker. I have no issue with divulging our dynamic. I don't much care if her family, friends, or co-workers don't like how I choose to live my life. For that matter I don't care how my family, friends, or co-workers might negatively react. It is Chipmunk who is at odds with this. The issue is more about respecting me, and my relationship. She can not go through life by the seat of her pants, saying what ever is best for her comfort level, and not consider the comfort of the other people in her life. This is very self centered of her, and is not surprising considering her situation. Well actually she can be as self centered, and unthinking as she wants. Unfortunately she is living with me, and I am not willing to let these things slide.

Also when this issue first came up within a month of Chipmunk moving in. Airyn and I brought it to Chipmunk to discuss. We talked about an upcoming visit with Airyn's family, and who would be ok to explain the whole thing to, who would not do well with this, and how she might feel about it. Basically we told Chipmunk that Airyn's mom wouldn't be a problem that she won't treat Chipmunk oddly, or have issue with our life. His mom has been in a similar situation. It didn't work for her so we knew she'd have concerns, but that generally would be accepting. We then discussed Airyn's grandparents, and explained their very religious views, and how we feel they would react poorly, and might choose to treat her poorly. It was talked about, Chipmunk was given ample time to consider how she felt, or might feel. It ended up not working out. Chipmunk ended up very unhappy, and uncomfortable with the Grandparents. There were two parts to that. One was the amount of information that the three of us agreed to share with his grandparents. The other was her seeing the amount of history between Airyn and I , and his family. The point though is that we knew this was an issue, and we talked to her about it, gave her a chance to tell us her thoughts, feeling, and were willing to talk about it. They (Airyn and Chipmunk) did not come to me to discuss how to handle this issue coming up at Chipmunk's job. A place that Airyn and I have frequented for years. I let it be known that I had no intention of changing my behavior towards Airyn while we are there.

You are right considering Chipmunk's work situation is a good thing, That they never talked about it, that Chipmunk never asked how I felt, or if there was any problem with calling Airyn her boyfriend is not ok. It's not that she calls him her boyfriend at work, that's fine with me. It's that she expected me to not have an intimate relationship with Airyn in front of the people she works with. This wouldn't be an issue if she worked somewhere I did not frequent. If this was a location Airyn and I had rarely been to, and would rarely go to now that she is employed there. And Airyn had several other options. He chose to present me as a roommate, not his best friend, not his girlfriend, nothing to signify that he and I have an important to him relationship. Nothing that left me with room to treat him as my significant other and let those who see decide for themselves what to make of it. People will see what they choose to, and will explain things in ways that make them feel comfortable. If he had called me his best friend or his girlfriend, then it would have been up to the cashier to decide what he feels that means in this situation. He could take the term girlfriend and assume it is platonic, and then see Airyn and I arm in arm walking around the store, and think NOTHING odd. It's about using language that is respectful, and thoughtful to me as a person, and to my relationship with Airyn.

When Airyn and I were taking Chipmunk to her previous job, she chose to tell her co-workers that she was dating Airyn. She could have chosen to say she was dating me, as we were all dating at that time. Her previous job was also gay/lesbian friendly (her current job is more friendly to the LGBT community). There were several openly gay men working there, and at least one openly lesbian female working there. Chipmunk wasn't comfortable presenting herself as gay/bi/lesbian so she chose to say Airyn was her boyfriend, and that I'm her friend. Sure I was hurt or disappointed that she didn't want to tell her co-workers that she and I were in an intimate relationship, but I was not expected to treat her differently while at her job. Female platonic friends can and do hold hand, hug ect, and no one would think it odd. This was acceptable. It allowed me to be in a relationship with Chipmunk, and allowed Chipmunk to present it to her co-workers in a way that was comfortable for both of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
In regard to the second day and the walking while holding hands part: Just speak up. And do so in the given moment at hand. If Chipmunk doesn't know what causes your 'mood-swings' and Ayrin doesn't get you as well from time to time, speak up when the situation arises. It will cause some unpleasant days and maybe will ruin a date or two, but they aren't mind readers as well. Tell them what makes you uncomfortable and don't take some unproductive consideration for the other relationship when yours is strained so much.

I hope you will be able to sort this out and find a liveable solution in the nearest future.

Edit: Oh dear, there was more to come, I was answering the shopping incidence and the date for photos.
You are right I should speak up sooner. I wasn't angry, just wishing Airyn would act more like he was out with me too. I am working on saying things sooner, I'm not good at it some times. Some days are easier/better then others. I am hopeful that we can sort all this out soon too. I told Airyn last Friday that I'm tired. Tired of being last on his mind. He says he's not ok with it, but then he shows other wise, says otherwise when we are out. He and I will be talking more about it soon. I really am tired, and right now I feel that if this is how it will be, then I'm done being poly with him and Chipmunk. My relationship with Airyn is just as valid, and important to me as Chipmunk's relationship to Airyn is. Airyn needs to treat us equally, and be in a relationship with us both. He can not continue to have a relationship with both of us, and treat my stated feelings as less important then how he THINKs Chipmunk feels.

This is why I am sending her the email I copied into this forum. She has to begin being able to talk to me about these things. She and I have to work that part out between us. But talking about our relationship to outsiders is not the only situation where Airyn has placed me last. I'm done with being last. But that's another conversation, another post for later.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #60  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:34 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Posts: 139
Default Email sent, and received

I sent the posted email off to Chipmunk Wednesday evening. I told her I was sending it, and that it was important to me. That I would like her to read it and talk to Airyn about it so she and I could talk.

I got a PM from an observant reader of this blog of mine. Who's observations turned out to be very much correct. Airyn has been jumping to avoid excessive drama where Chipmunk is concerned. If saying something one way will avoid days of unpleasantness from Chipmunk towards Airyn then that is what he does. We talked about it, acknowledged it. I told Airyn that it helps me to understand, but it does not make this ok, or better. That once Chipmunk has taken the email into consideration she needs to realize what has been happening and make an effort to break the pattern with us.

Chipmunk is angry with me. Avoiding being around me right now. It's not a good day, and I'm not in a good place emotionally. I've been stressed over sending the email, but also resolved that this is the best way to get this out there. I know she does not handle confrontation well, and any conversation she needs time to process before she can deal with what ever was being talked about.

Airyn says this was inevitable. He told me last night that she was emotional, crying, upset, very negative. He does not see her as being able or willing to work on herself so that we can make this work. I told him today that I have found resources (thanks to this forum) that can help her when/if she is ever ready to talk with me, and do the reading.

More to come when I find out how things are. Airyn and Chipmunk are out talking, shopping, and walking around stores together right now.

In effect I have told Chipmunk that she has to grow up, and she has to start doing it now. That I can't wait for her to see this for herself any longer. She's not taking it well, and I'm not surprised. She always has a negative reaction no matter what the conversation is about, but this was big for her.

I really just want to have good days again.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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age difference, ffm, fmf, third partner, triad fallout, triads

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