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  #41  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:10 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
You can remain dissatisfied, seeing yourself as a martyr in your marriage, and viewing polyamory as a "snare and a delusion, a reckless indulgence that upends households, drains resources and lays waste to souls," if that is what you think is necessary to get through your misery. But many of us have found joy and challenges that have given us a way to fully express who we are through loving more than one.

Sheesh, couldn't you see I was only trying to offer a different perspective on things, as a way to be helpful? But since all your responses to me are nasty, smart-ass, nay-saying put-downs, I'm done. Go pick on someone else. Good luck.

Wow ... this got my attention . Had to go back and read all previous stuff.

A little let down ...I dont see the nasty smart-ass stuff but then again I'm a smart ass so I might be afraid to look into the mirror but on the other hand it takes one to know one ...

I think in post #28 the comment " polyamory as a snare and a delusion, a reckless indulgence that upends households, drains resources and lays waste to souls" ... goes with out saying thats it's been his experience and is his opinion ....and I particularly liked the humor at the end of ...thought you should know. albeit dark

Also there more than a few horror stories to back up what he's saying. And there are the success stories that make those blanket statements equally problematic.

Marriages, children, careers all have responsibilities tied to them, all have differently weighted meaning and all complicate our lives in different ways ...so at some point simple is a dream.

It looks like he's doing worst damage assessment. shit or shittier...shittiest. Not good vs bad.

I don't want the cheese anymore I just want to get out of the trap.

I was going to post on Anotherconfusted thread about her mono husband feeling resentful or bad being stuck with the kids during her weekend get always. His position was he was facilitating her rendezvous with her lover.
I think my kids were a bit older so that wasn't as big an issue BUT...I did always feel that my life and choices made her life and choices possible.

If your not out to your friends and family I would make some sort of contingency for accidents or illnesses they do happen ....It happened to me.

Whats your utopian dream ? Is it at all possible .... is slugging out for a couple more yrs part of that? I agree with cindie on selecting martyrdom as a strategy for a happy marriage....I don't see that working ...the frost and ice should get much thicker. Trust me life's too short to do it to yourself.


Good luck D
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  #42  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:36 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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I hear what HS is saying.

With due respect NYCindie, poly in a world with a live in partner and children is so very different to practicing poly as a indie solo.

So different that I would suspect there's different ball parks involved.
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  #43  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:55 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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And in addition. Love does have limits.

When the cost of giving love comes at a cost that is too high to bear. Love can fail.
Love does have limits and every person should be mindful of their own limits.

The idea that love is limitless is ridiculous. No resource is. In my opinion.
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  #44  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Don't assume anything about me. It is simple: we have choices to make, and we choose. We can choose or not to accept others' terms, we can choose or not to look inward and question our reactions to things, we can choose or not to continue in relationships where we are unhappy.
I was going to say something about choices, but that about sums it up.

I have chosen not to have children. The very reason being that I don't want to make that commitment, give up that time. Now you can sit there and call me selfish for that, and you know what? I would fully agree. I'm selfish. I'd prefer to be selfish and childless, than another one of those selfish, neglectful breeders.

I have chosen to limit the amount of time I spend at school, even though I'm a grad student and there's an unspoken expectation that I will spend every waking moment in the lab. I choose to balance my work-life scale on the side of "life" and if that means my degree takes a little longer, then so be it.

You, HS, have chosen to be married with children while having a career that is clearly very time consuming. It is those choices that limit your availability for polyamory. That is not a fault of polyamory itself, but a result of your own life choices.

I have a girlfriend who would love it if we spent more time together. But I have a personal need for "me time." I'm no martyr. I come first in my life. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so, and the people who love me don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bella123456 View Post
With due respect NYCindie, poly in a world with a live in partner and children is so very different to practicing poly as a indie solo.
Absolutely it is. We all live with the consequences of our choices.

It's not love that's limited, it's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
We both had a hand in creating our current situation, we have both done damage to one another along the way, as any two people inevitably will.
That's probably the saddest thing I've heard in a long time. I don't see it at all inevitable that two people will damage one another over time. If that's the case, then you're doing it wrong. A partner should enhance your life, help you grow, help give you the strength to reverse the damage done from the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
That's all part of the bind I'm in, the constraints that drain away my autonomy.
You're allowing yourself to play the victim and deny accountability in your situation. Your own choices are what drains your autonomy. You choose to keep a job in a place that is not healthy for your wife. Sure, you love your job, I get that. But acknowledge that it's your choice of having a job you love that limits your other options. My husband loves his job. When he's feeling sorry for himself, he likes to pretend that he's forced to work away from home to make enough money so that I can be in school. But the truth is that he prefers being able to dive into work and focus on it for 10 days at a time, and then come home and forget about it.

You can't stop your wife from going to Europe, but you choose to agree to care for the kids when she goes. You could just as easily tell her she needs to take them with her if she wants to go. Sounds like Doc would have no trouble sponsoring a private tutor to keep them up with their studies for a couple weeks, and the experience of another culture would be invaluable.

So don't pretend like you're forced into your situation. Accept responsibility for your choices, and quit trying to make us feel guilty for being successful with ours.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-30-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-30-2012, 07:51 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Sheesh, couldn't you see I was only trying to offer a different perspective on things, as a way to be helpful? But since all your responses to me are nasty, smart-ass, nay-saying put-downs, I'm done. Go pick on someone else. Good luck.
I'm sorry, Indie. Really.

I saw your contributions in a different light, not as helpful but as snarky and condescending, but I'm entirely willing to suppose that was just me, on the defensive.

I really should stop posting to forums. They are terrible ways to try to communicate with people!

ADDENDUM: I should also listen to that still, small voice that, from time to time, tells me not to click "submit".

Last edited by hyperskeptic; 11-30-2012 at 08:20 PM.
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:23 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I'm sorry, Indie. Really.
Thanks. It's okay. We're cool. And I hope your situation improves and you start to feel better.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2013, 02:15 AM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Default Still Here

Against my better judgment, I'm still lurking on this forum, trying to sort things out.

After enduring one of the bleakest Christmas seasons I can remember, things have begun at least to stabilize between my wife and me. She's gone off on another jaunt to Europe, since then, and it was . . . less awful than the one before.

Things are still complicated, and I'm still baffled by many aspects of my situation, but I'm less despondent about the whole thing.

My resolve to be de facto monogamous has been wavering, in the last few weeks, which introduces agonies all its own. I don't think I was wrong in my assessment of my situation, the time and resources I have available to me, the risk of failing in my existing commitments if I start trying to make room for a new relationship.

But I long for a new relationship.

A hundred different perspectives on that longing are clamoring in my brain, pulling me this way and that: Give in! Resist! Grow up! Relax! It's okay! Who cares? Do your duty! Do what you want! Don't be pathetic! Don't be creepy! Go for it!

It doesn't help (But it does! No it doesn't!) that my affection for a particular person is growing more intense. This is an attraction with some history to it, someone on whom I had a professionally inappropriate crush a couple of years ago; the professional obstacle is no longer relevant, and I do see her, from time to time, in other contexts. Suffice it to say that the crush, which went dormant for a long time, especially during my relationship with Nyx, has rekindled.

I had a terrible flare-up this weekend, and it delights and worries and torments and frustrates and annoys me no end.

I've been trying to walk a tight-rope where she is concerned, opening up communication with her, trying to create opportunities for us to meet and interact - we had a very nice talk over lunch a few weeks ago - without giving in to my impulse to lay my heart at her feet.

What holds me back is that I keep thinking of it from her point of view. The question from the end of my relationship with Nyx still resonates: What do I really have to offer another person, I mean really?

Here I am, a busy professional with an often-absent wife, two children, and lots of other commitments to a community of which I am a part. There's not a lot left over.

Besides that, I'm about a dozen years older than her, and she was once my student. That puts a troubling edge of creepiness on the whole thing, seen from her point of view.

So, I tell myself not to be ridiculous . . . but I'm still drawn to her, more powerfully than I've been drawn to anyone in a really long time. I tell myself that what I'm really drawn to may just be my own fantasy; I tell myself not to be delusional.

And so it goes.

There's another voice clamoring for attention in my head, telling me that posting this is a waste of time, that I really shouldn't hit "submit reply".

Oh, well. Here goes . . .

Last edited by hyperskeptic; 02-18-2013 at 02:59 AM. Reason: grammatical pickiness
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2013, 01:13 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Default Look! There, on the ground! It's . . .

Negative Man!

I've discovered that I have a super-power: I can talk myself out of anything, given enough time.

Since my last post, I've been mulling over my crush and its prospects, weighing what I want and what I imagine - or, perhaps, what I imagine I want and what I want to imagine - against what is possible and what is likely, and against what is responsible and what is good.

The more I think about it, the smaller and cooler the flame seems to become. This morning, it's all but extinguished.

What a relief!

I still have a lot of affection for the person in question, but I can hold it at arm's length, without any particular hope or expectation.

Of course, I'll have to pay attention to my response to her, the next time I see her. She may be the equivalent of kryptonite . . .

In the mean time, I'll enjoy the calm, the detachment, of a mossy stone.
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  #49  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:47 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Default Riding the Pendulum

I wrote this as part of a new thread, last night, about a boundary dispute I had with Vix:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
She seems firmly committed to polyamory, and I am riding a pendulum that swings between a principled commitment of de facto monogamy and reluctant resignation to de facto monogamy.
The image of the pendulum really captures what I've been experiencing, lately.

Some days, it seems reasonable and responsible for me to remain de facto monogamous. I wouldn't insist on compulsory monogamy for anyone; I think polyamory may be a fine choice for those who have the capacity for it.

For reasons articulated in this blog thread, I don't think I currently have the capacity for it: I have too much to do, and too little to offer to a relationship with someone else.

On especially good days, I can be more or less contented with such a commitment.

On other days, though, I chafe against de facto monogamy, though I seem powerless to do anything to change my circumstances, or to make anything else possible. I may want to be close to other people, but that has always been difficult for me, even under the best of circumstances.

I just don't relate well to others. I am, as Vix pointed out today, too reluctant to put my trust in other people. I can be awkward, get my signals crossed, miss important cues, one way or the other. It's entirely possible I'm somewhere on the autism spectrum, though I've never been diagnosed as such.

On such days, I'm awash in longing and envy and frustration . . . and resignation.

I'm stuck being who I am, where I am, and I may as well get used to it.
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  #50  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:32 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
For reasons articulated in this blog thread, I don't think I currently have the capacity for it: I have too much to do, and too little to offer to a relationship with someone else.
Don't be so sure. For every set of things someone has to offer, no matter how big or small, there are people open to just such an arrangement.

For example, I have a husband, a girlfriend, and a busy academic life. Someone like you would fit right into my life. You wouldn't put unrealistic demands on my time, and I wouldn't feel guilty about leaving you with my kitchen scraps.

Sure, that obviously means we could never have a relationship as deep and intimate as our marriages, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be special in its own right.

The analogy that comes to mind is silly but apt. Suppose you have a peanut and you see a squirrel. Sure, one little peanut won't get that squirrel through the winter. But maybe he's already got lots of acorns to eat, and even though he really likes acorns and they satisfy his hunger, he would enjoy the peanut as a special treat.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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