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  #31  
Old 12-26-2009, 06:49 PM
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Ackowledged ... I've removed that part from my post, since it could cause confusion.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2009, 06:55 PM
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Ceoli, it seems (based on this and other posts) you automatically equate "policy" with "prescriptive". It also seems that you're equating having a "policy" with having hard and fast, carved in stone rules.
Actually no. I equate a policy with an underlying principle upon which expectations are built. In many ways, those underlying policies do create rules and prescriptions. For me, it doesn't work to have an underlying principle (or "policy" if you will) that encourages less communication over more communication. If something different works for you then great. That wouldn't work for me.
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  #33  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:18 PM
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Ceoli - I think it's apparent that you and I have very different relationships in our lives. Your relationships (or the relationships you want) have everyone being involved with each other to a much higher degree than mine do.
Crisare, I don't know the nature of your relationships so I'm not going to compare mine to yours. However I can say that what I'm involved in is an individual relationship with a man who has other partners. And those other partners have individual relationships of their own with him. The fact that there is open communication among us doesn't mean that we're involved to a higher degree with each other. I'm friends with one of my metamours, have been chatting with another of my metamours and don't know the others very well at all. We're involved in a high level of communication. That's all.

When I move back to London, whoever I get involved with will also be a separate individual relationship. However, there will still be that level of communication between the relationships I have.
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  #34  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:05 PM
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I think it's important to understand why such policies are in place.

I generally don't get involved with people who have DADT policies with their other partners. I always feel much more secure when there's open communication between partners and metamours. I can't help but tie withheld information with protecting insecurity. As a person who is usually the outsider dating people in established partnerships, I've found that DADT is usually the tip of an iceberg that usually causes larger problems for me when getting more deeply involved. If my partner's partner can't handle that kind of information about my involvement, then that usually means that, on some level, they can't handle my involvement period. So it ends up being the same drama, just buried underneath the surface where it simmers and builds rather than being evident and out there for everyone to address. For me, DADT ends up limiting how involved I can be with a partner.

The guy I'm currently getting involved with actually has a philosophy of "There's no such thing as too much information." And he means it. There's nothing I can't ask him about his other relationships, including all the details. The same for his partners- I can talk to them about anything without reservation. That's much more proactive and open than I've ever encountered before. It's also pretty lovely to experience.
Honestly-this would be MUCH more comfortable and natural to me as well.

I find it difficult, for example, Tuesday I went with GG. He got a vasectomy. This was strenuous for me with my neck issues, but I knew it would be easier on him if I were there, so I went despite Maca and GG arranging so I didn't have to.

But afterward there were things I wanted/needed to vent. I sure as HELL did not want to talk to GG about them! But Maca doesn't want to know... so I couldn't talk with him about what was on my mind. Awkward laying in bed with my mind in a whirlwind, he asks "what are you thinking"... what the hell am I supposed to answer?

For ME personally-I'd rather just leave it to circumstance, which is more what GG and I do. I don't AUTOMATICALLY tell him everything I did/do with Maca, but if its right, I can and do and it's no big deal. Likewise-while he doesn't have a lover right NOW-he has on a number of occassions over the last 17 years, we talk about things pertinent to them (and my past relationships too) fond or otherwise AND we did throughout that time as well. It's just understood between us that neither of us would ever INTENTIONALLY say something TO hurt the other, so anything CAN be shared.

That said-some things I don't share generally. He doesn't have a keen interest in some of my BDSM interests. So unless they specifically pertain to our conversation, I don't talk about them. I guess-I don't talk about them JUST to share them with him.. but I CAN and if he asked, I certainly WOULD...

(did that make sense? I sort of feel like I lost myself in trying to explain that last paragraph)
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  #35  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:13 PM
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um, I get what you are saying in terms of BDSM, Mono is NOT interested in details around what me and my tersiary do.

I find it hard to bite my tongue sometimes in situations as I know people are talking out of their ass about stuff they have never experienced and I have... I have to try hard to let them talk it out and not roll my eyes at their preconceived ideas about stuff... I am getting better about that as I think it's important to allow people to be where they are at and meet them there instead of bowling them over with information that makes me look like I am showing off. That is not to say I won't give information, just at a time that is appropriate when they have talked through as much as they know.
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  #36  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by crisare View Post
In fact I'd go so far as to say that if my guy's wife or my H demanded blow-by-blow details or required that everything we did or said was open to her, I would see that as a sign of insecurity on their parts - that he or she is not able to allow us a private intimate relationship, which could create problems down the road.
(bolding/underlining by me)

I think that word is KEY here.

I was reading (and rereading) your post and Ceoli's previous post.
I FEEL so comfortable with Ceoli's way of expecting it to go. It FEELS so much more..... real? to me.

But I read yours and something triggered. So in re-reading it I finally got, it's DEMANDING.

That is something I DEFINITELY attribute to insecurity. I think JUST as strongly as "don't tell me I don't want to know" (not sure what that would be called in one word).

I think that a comfortable acceptance of "what will be, will be" in action and conversation, is a true sign of security. Not a rule of either or.

I personally don't spend ANY time "comparing" my men, and I don't share things to appease their desire to do so (not saying that they do desire to, just making a point). I would and have shut down conversation before IMMEDIATELY when I got the impression that information was being requested for the purpose of comparing or competing.

But I do like knowing that I CAN tell GG "OMG last night Maca did......... and OMG it was SO FUCKING AWESOME" or (as I have said often) "OMG Maca is SO fucking amazing when he goes down, I can't fathom why women aren't standing in line."
GG is confident in his own strengths and he just finds it amusing. He isn't sitting there asking "well what exactly does he do.." because he doesn't NEED or WANT to BE Maca. He knows that I love things he does for how HE does them and he knows I love things Maca does for how Maca does them....


I guess for me-(I know what 5 minutes from the last post and I change details of my thoughts. I guess you all just make me think! )

For me, I would prefer the FREEDOM to talk about things if they were pertinent and for a level of trust that I wouldn't be sharing information that was going to be hurtful or used against the other lover......

Definitely-

I would prefer a level of trust in ME that my partners would know I wouldn't be sharing information that was intended to be hurtful to either of them or that was likely to be used by one lover to hurt the other.... I would prefer that they both trust me enough to know that I choose partners who have heart and consideration and maturity and an ability and willingness to act in manners that show those things not only to me but to one another...
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Nobody in this relationship that I'm exploring demands blow by blows of anything. I agree that needing to know everything is just as much a sign of insecurity as needing to not hear about things. However, knowing that I can ask about something without fear of overstepping boundaries goes a long way. If someone specifically doesn't want a detail shared, then of course they have the right to ask that it remain private. But it means proactive communication has to happen on everyone's part and not leaving things unsaid. So far, I haven't felt the need to keep what goes on between us private and it still feels just as special despite that.
Funny how proactive communication comes up in so many of the areas of relationship huh?
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  #38  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:51 PM
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I personally don't spend ANY time "comparing" my men, and I don't share things to appease their desire to do so (not saying that they do desire to, just making a point). I would and have shut down conversation before IMMEDIATELY when I got the impression that information was being requested for the purpose of comparing or competing.

But I do like knowing that I CAN tell GG "OMG last night Maca did......... and OMG it was SO FUCKING AWESOME" or (as I have said often) "OMG Maca is SO fucking amazing when he goes down, I can't fathom why women aren't standing in line."
GG is confident in his own strengths and he just finds it amusing. He isn't sitting there asking "well what exactly does he do.." because he doesn't NEED or WANT to BE Maca. He knows that I love things he does for how HE does them and he knows I love things Maca does for how Maca does them....
This is really interesting. It kind of touches on something that this guy I'm getting involved with wrote about. He wrote a great post about why he thinks it's a good thing to compare different partners. I've found experiencing his perspective on it to be pretty refreshing. He sums it up really nicely in the conclusion to his post (I bolded the part I really like):

When you compare your lovers, when you notice the similarities and differences between your lovers--this is a necessary and inevitable consequence of seeing your lovers. Not as faceless, interchangeable units, but as human beings. You can not know a person, not in any meaningful way, without noticing those things that make that person unique.

It's not about comparing them on a stepladder to figure out which one is "best"--lessee, Gina gets four points for loving dogs, 'cause dogs are cool; joreth gets six bonus points because she hates the novel Stranger in a Strange Land, and I don't like it either1--and the one with the most points wins. 'Cause, y'know, the one with the most points is the best one.

Instead, it's about seeing each of my partners for exactly who she is. When you do that, you see that each person is someone who adds value to your life--value that any other person can't.

And that, my friends, is awesome.
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  #39  
Old 12-26-2009, 09:36 PM
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This is really interesting. It kind of touches on something that this guy I'm getting involved with wrote about. He wrote a great post about why he thinks it's a good thing to compare different partners. I've found experiencing his perspective on it to be pretty refreshing. He sums it up really nicely in the conclusion to his post (I bolded the part I really like):

When you compare your lovers, when you notice the similarities and differences between your lovers--this is a necessary and inevitable consequence of seeing your lovers. Not as faceless, interchangeable units, but as human beings. You can not know a person, not in any meaningful way, without noticing those things that make that person unique.

It's not about comparing them on a stepladder to figure out which one is "best"--lessee, Gina gets four points for loving dogs, 'cause dogs are cool; joreth gets six bonus points because she hates the novel Stranger in a Strange Land, and I don't like it either1--and the one with the most points wins. 'Cause, y'know, the one with the most points is the best one.

Instead, it's about seeing each of my partners for exactly who she is. When you do that, you see that each person is someone who adds value to your life--value that any other person can't.

And that, my friends, is awesome.
haha, I kinda figured Joreth was a metamour of yours Ceoli. she had interesting timing a while back.

I read that article and while I agree wholeheartedly I don't see it servicing my men well if I go on and on about comparing them. I do that is my head as a way of separating them as human beings, loving them for who THEY are and to keep perspective and my expectations at bay. It's like the whole talking about sex thing. If they ask or if it's necessary I will tell them how I see them as lovably different in certain ways. I also take a lot of comfort in knowing the ways they are the same too. This has also given me insight into myself and who I chose as a worthy person to invest in.

Mono compares me to his ex-wife this way too and also notes our differences (sexually and otherwise). So does my husband come to think of it... he compares his partners to his mother in character yet notes the differences we have also. All of it is interesting and helpful but there is a find line between too much talking, just as there is about sex talk.
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  #40  
Old 12-26-2009, 09:38 PM
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"OMG Maca is SO fucking amazing when he goes down, I can't fathom why women aren't standing in line."
Um, they are all lined up in front of Mono's apartment building... poor dears, they are hoping one day he won't be mono, I will tell them to head up to Alaska for Maca then, K?
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