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  #41  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
It irks me that you are continually put in the position of mothering Chipmunk, and deferring your time with Airyn for her. Now it seems like he's got you mothering him, too. You are amazingly patient and understanding but it sounds like they are starting to walk all over you - certainly not consciously or on purpose, but what will it take for them to wake up and grow up? Especially Chipmunk. Gah, I'd have booted her out of the house a long time ago! Why does she have to live with you? Can't she find a roommate situation somewhere else and be a little more independent? You already have a child!!!
I don't know what it will take for Chipmunk to grow up and be more independent. I expect that Airyn will go back to being his independent, confident self once Chipmunk either grows up or gets out.

I've been feeling the same way. I have no interest in taking care of an adult child. But when I say things like that to Airyn he tells me I have a hate on for Chipmunk. No what I really have is a serious resentment. But I still haven't gotten to talk to him about it. So I'm still sad, and feeling raw over this weekend. It would be nice to feel missed, wanted, and desired. He and I have talked about that too (couple weeks ago), but well the next time he and I had to be together (after that talk) didn't turn out so well (Chipmunk went to a strip club, and Airyn spent the rest of the night feeling disrespected, and not showing any interest in intimacy, cuddling or anything else with me other then what any friend can offer). Then this weekend 3 hours on Friday, and not seeing him on Saturday. Now Airyn is telling me once again, we'll have time later. I keep hearing this, and am still waiting. I don't have anything nice to say about it.

It's nice to hear someone sympathizing with me. Thanks Nycindie
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #42  
Old 11-26-2012, 06:15 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Yep, I was coming here to talk about mothering too. From an outside position it looks like you're trying to mother them both, if he had his own funds and you stayed out of how he spent them, didn't ask who paid for what, you wouldn't have this stuff that is adding fuel to the fire of your unhappiness with their dynamic and Chipmunk's immaturity.

I am a lot like you, I'm frugal, I worry about money spent on dates overwhelming our budget. My husband likes to spend money and so that is a regular struggle for us trying to balance that when it comes to other relationships. There is nothing attractive about micromanaging his spending, it doesn't make our relationship better or either of us fonder or more desirous of each other.

"I don't know what it will take for Chipmunk to grow up and be more independent. "
Start acting like she is one. Some ideas
don't cater to her, if she pouts or throws a tantrum, don't respond as if she's a child.
don't take her lunch, let her feed herself
don't remind her of appointments or plans, she is a grownup
don't drive her around like she's your kid that you have to take to soccer practice and dance class, an adult is capable of arranging their own transportation. If Airyn wants to do that, let him on his own.
don't ask how she's spending her money (including asking about it through asking Airyn how the checks are being split or not)
don't lecture her about her bad or immature habits - if things she is doing impact home life negatively (chore stuff) then talk to her as if she were a roommate, theres lots of online advice about how to manage that stuff.

I think the longer you put off talking to him, the worse it will be. Most people don't like thinking a situation is mostly OK to find out that somebody was growing more resentful for months and didn't speak up. I feel like the dynamic is getting more dysfunctional the longer she lives there and is in your space 24/7. I wouldn't suggest waiting til Airyn says he has time and wants to talk, I would tell him I am scheduling X time on X day and we need to be somewhere to talk about stuff alone.

I think the relationship could be good all around if you are able to speak up and be honest. I am wondering if you are struggling with fear that if you tell him you want her to move out that he will refuse? I also wonder if you think you wont be a good partner if you ask for it?

I'm not clear on if you actually want her to move out, but while when you first started posting I figured would be fine if you all quickly made the move to a 3 bedroom place, I wonder if that's really even a viable option to keep living together when you have trouble telling them how you truly feel, or because when you try to communicate you don't feel heard.

Sorry if I'm coming across as negative, I'm rooting for you, it's just that it appears this relationship is bringing out a lot of co-dependence for you and Airyn, and I think while your behavior is super kind and nice and loving and giving, because Chipmunk isn't all those things, it seems to be causing co-dependent issues with her too, and if that's not nipped in the bud ASAP it's likely to get worse, so I want to encourage you to get out of that cycle, speak up, and ask for what you need and want.
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 11-26-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:21 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Yep, I was coming here to talk about mothering too. From an outside position it looks like you're trying to mother them both, if he had his own funds and you stayed out of how he spent them, didn't ask who paid for what, you wouldn't have this stuff that is adding fuel to the fire of your unhappiness with their dynamic and Chipmunk's immaturity.

I am a lot like you, I'm frugal, I worry about money spent on dates overwhelming our budget. My husband likes to spend money and so that is a regular struggle for us trying to balance that when it comes to other relationships. There is nothing attractive about micromanaging his spending, it doesn't make our relationship better or either of us fonder or more desirous of each other.

"I don't know what it will take for Chipmunk to grow up and be more independent. "
Start acting like she is one. Some ideas
don't cater to her, if she pouts or throws a tantrum, don't respond as if she's a child.
don't take her lunch, let her feed herself
don't remind her of appointments or plans, she is a grownup
don't drive her around like she's your kid that you have to take to soccer practice and dance class, an adult is capable of arranging their own transportation. If Airyn wants to do that, let him on his own.
don't ask how she's spending her money (including asking about it through asking Airyn how the checks are being split or not)
don't lecture her about her bad or immature habits - if things she is doing impact home life negatively (chore stuff) then talk to her as if she were a roommate, theres lots of online advice about how to manage that stuff.
I see your point, now to get Airyn on board. I have actually stopped doing certain things for Chipmunk; however I've noticed that Airyn has picked up what I have dropped.
Like with her work schedule. She has this wall calendar, and we put up dates, and appointments on it. I maintain Wolfs important stuff, but Wolf stands with me as we write it. Where as Chipmunk stopped putting it on the board. I asked her to one week, She didn't so I went back to writing it myself. Then asked her to write it a second time (a few weeks later). She emailed me her schedule and I wrote it for her (dumb of me? maybe but I feel i need to know). This week I didn't ask about her schedule and yesterday she emailed it to Airyn, and has just asked him to write it on the board. I'm not sure how to fix that. It's mostly Airyn who is still catering to her, Not that I'm not, but it is something that I'm working on putting a stop to in myself.

The lunch thing is more about her wanting Airyn to come to her job and visit with her on her lunch break then about us bring her food. And I'm not going up there any more, but he still is. This will possibly be the first week that this is curbed a little, we will see. It's still something that I am talking about with Airyn, unfortunately it's something I have been talking about with him for over a month. It's taken about 6 weeks, and me getting angry with him, and offering him what he could say to Chipmunk to get any where with it. As in he knew how I felt about him going up to visit her on her lunch break when it should be our time together. When I finally got fed up and made a big deal about it he finally told me that he can't just tell Chipmunk that he's not bring her a lunch that she'd get upset with him. So I told him that months ago he had talked to her about needing to spend more time with me, and that a 3 hour time limit isn't spending quality time together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I think the longer you put off talking to him, the worse it will be. Most people don't like thinking a situation is mostly OK to find out that somebody was growing more resentful for months and didn't speak up. I feel like the dynamic is getting more dysfunctional the longer she lives there and is in your space 24/7. I wouldn't suggest waiting til Airyn says he has time and wants to talk, I would tell him I am scheduling X time on X day and we need to be somewhere to talk about stuff alone.
This is good advice, and I know I need to work on my communication. It's a work in progress, and has gotten better. I've also talked to Airyn about him working on his communication as well, but he has no interest in reading these boards. Another problem is privacy, if Chipmunk is home then I can't talk freely with Airyn. For one thing some stuff is between he and I, and not something I need to share with Chipmunk. My style can be rather confrontational (or sometimes just very emotional depending on the topic and how often I've been asking for something), and can get very heated. I'm much more calm these days then when I was at Chipmunk's age. Again this is something I need to work on more. This is one of the things that causes stress. If I'm getting upset and talking to Airyn about it, and Chipmunk is around, she then gets upset with Airyn because I'm upset. This is usually where she says she'll just throw in the towel and move out, and Airyn is either talking her into staying or offer to help her get moved depending on what ever the argument was, and how stressed he is feeling between us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I think the relationship could be good all around if you are able to speak up and be honest. I am wondering if you are struggling with fear that if you tell him you want her to move out that he will refuse? I also wonder if you think you wont be a good partner if you ask for it?

I'm not clear on if you actually want her to move out, but while when you first started posting I figured would be fine if you all quickly made the move to a 3 bedroom place, I wonder if that's really even a viable option to keep living together when you have trouble telling them how you truly feel, or because when you try to communicate you don't feel heard.
Actually in my anger I have asked for this, and when I'm calmer I have been talked into letting things ride. So I feel stuck. I have talked to Airyn about this some what, but I don't think he really understands. So yeah I feel like I'm not being heard. I can talk about what i want, and be told ok we can do that, and then not get it, and come back and talk about it again, and again till I'm in tears. Then Airyns finally sees that something has to be done, and one issue will get fixed. I don't feel that it should be this hard. I feel I should be able to ask for what i want, and be heard, and have my desires/wants/needs considered. IF it's not something that will work right now OK acknowledge that, and move on to something that can happen. But don't promising me something, and then not deliver. (sorry if that sounds directed at you Anneintherain it's not, it's at Airyn, this is a touchy subject for me.) I have multiply times pointed out that there is a pattern of me asking for something, being told ok we'll do this, and then not getting what was agreed on.

As far as a larger place is concerned, I have no idea if it is something that will work. I'm very back and forth on the whole thing. Which is probably why you can't tell how I feel about it. I'll have a great couple hours with Airyn, and feel like this can all work, then something shitty happens, and it falls apart for me. Airyn is ok with letting things roll as is, but I'm not. We are still talking about it. Hopefully after Chipmunk goes to work today He and i can talk before Wolf comes home.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Sorry if I'm coming across as negative, I'm rooting for you, it's just that it appears this relationship is bringing out a lot of co-dependence for you and Airyn, and I think while your behavior is super kind and nice and loving and giving, because Chipmunk isn't all those things, it seems to be causing co-dependent issues with her too, and if that's not nipped in the bud ASAP it's likely to get worse, so I want to encourage you to get out of that cycle, speak up, and ask for what you need and want.

No don't apologize, your words are great they make me think. And gives my circling thoughts a direction, a focus.

Now to figure out how to get my needs heard. That is part of the disconnect with Airyn and I. I'll start doing some reading online about roommate relationship conversations. Cause you are right i see her as an adult version of Wolf, and treat her a lot like I treat Wolf now. I need to stop doing that, and maybe lead Airyn to stop by example? It's worth a shot.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #44  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:46 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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"When I finally got fed up and made a big deal about it he finally told me that he can't just tell Chipmunk that he's not bring her a lunch that she'd get upset with him."

So your upsetness doesn't matter but hers does? He has GOT to take a step back and realize the double-standard he's applying here (and I don't just mean in this one instance). I mean, is he capable of imagining himself in your position, if you were walking on eggshells to avoid potentially hurting a new younger boyfriend's feelings, while he struggled and struggled to get his basic relationship needs met, and you continually blew off his concerns as unviable or unfair or etc etc etc (add your excuse here!)? I wonder if he would be as patient as you have been.

I feel like I'm seeing a pattern repeat here that I've seen in too many other people's stories. A couple opens their relationship. Partner A gets caught up in NRE with Partner C and begins being unfair to Partner B. Partner B deals with this for a while, but is eventually so hurt that they can no longer stomach the presence of Partner C at all, or, in some cases, polyamory period. So, the NRE-generating relationship ends, everyone feels terrible, the relationship may or may not stay open... heck, the original relationship may not even survive. Whereas if Partner B's concerns had just been dealt with up front, and treated as valid and important, things could have been shifted into a sustainable dynamic BEFORE it all collapsed. That's where I see this going. I hope your husband wakes up before he drives off the cliff, y'know?
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  #45  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:48 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Originally Posted by Numina View Post
As in he knew how I felt about him going up to visit her on her lunch break when it should be our time together. When I finally got fed up and made a big deal about it he finally told me that he can't just tell Chipmunk that he's not bring her a lunch that she'd get upset with him. So I told him that months ago he had talked to her about needing to spend more time with me, and that a 3 hour time limit isn't spending quality time together.
How about you and he schedule whatever days a week for him to stay home with you during lunch, write it down on the calendar, and mention to Chipmunk that he has plans with you those days. Really if she will get upset about that - well, let her. That's ridiculous

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numina View Post
Actually in my anger I have asked for this, and when I'm calmer I have been talked into letting things ride. So I feel stuck. I have talked to Airyn about this some what, but I don't think he really understands. So yeah I feel like I'm not being heard. I can talk about what i want, and be told ok we can do that, and then not get it, and come back and talk about it again, and again till I'm in tears. Then Airyns finally sees that something has to be done, and one issue will get fixed. I don't feel that it should be this hard.

I feel I should be able to ask for what i want, and be heard, and have my desires/wants/needs considered. IF it's not something that will work right now OK acknowledge that, and move on to something that can happen. But don't promising me something, and then not deliver.

As far as a larger place is concerned, I have no idea if it is something that will work. I'm very back and forth on the whole thing. Which is probably why you can't tell how I feel about it. I'll have a great couple hours with Airyn, and feel like this can all work, then something shitty happens, and it falls apart for me. Airyn is ok with letting things roll as is, but I'm not. We are still talking about it. Hopefully after Chipmunk goes to work today He and i can talk before Wolf comes home.

Now to figure out how to get my needs heard. That is part of the disconnect with Airyn and I. I'll start doing some reading online about roommate relationship conversations. Cause you are right i see her as an adult version of Wolf, and treat her a lot like I treat Wolf now. I need to stop doing that, and maybe lead Airyn to stop by example? It's worth a shot.
Well since I'm feeling chatty today -
Do you recognize that the reason you aren't getting some of your needs met is because you back down almost every chance you get? Seems you change what you are OK with based on how things are with you and Airyn at that moment. How can you get what you want if as soon as you state what it is, you follow it up with "But I don't have to have it". Well of course you aren't going to get it then. Bite your tongue! You are sending muddy messages, Airyn might be getting some blame for things when he feels he's just trying to follow whatever you said last.

You know, if she moves out and lives separately, its not as if down the road when everybody thinks living together would be a healthy and fun thing for all involved that you cant all move in together then. That could be a very sensible plan.
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  #46  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:07 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
"When I finally got fed up and made a big deal about it he finally told me that he can't just tell Chipmunk that he's not bring her a lunch that she'd get upset with him."

So your upsetness doesn't matter but hers does? He has GOT to take a step back and realize the double-standard he's applying here (and I don't just mean in this one instance). I mean, is he capable of imagining himself in your position, if you were walking on eggshells to avoid potentially hurting a new younger boyfriend's feelings, while he struggled and struggled to get his basic relationship needs met, and you continually blew off his concerns as unviable or unfair or etc etc etc (add your excuse here!)? I wonder if he would be as patient as you have been.

I feel like I'm seeing a pattern repeat here that I've seen in too many other people's stories. A couple opens their relationship. Partner A gets caught up in NRE with Partner C and begins being unfair to Partner B. Partner B deals with this for a while, but is eventually so hurt that they can no longer stomach the presence of Partner C at all, or, in some cases, polyamory period. So, the NRE-generating relationship ends, everyone feels terrible, the relationship may or may not stay open... heck, the original relationship may not even survive. Whereas if Partner B's concerns had just been dealt with up front, and treated as valid and important, things could have been shifted into a sustainable dynamic BEFORE it all collapsed. That's where I see this going. I hope your husband wakes up before he drives off the cliff, y'know?
Ok this idea really worry's me, and I truly hope that this pattern doesn't hold true here.

Thanks for bring this up, Now I have more talking points.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #47  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:14 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
How about you and he schedule whatever days a week for him to stay home with you during lunch, write it down on the calendar, and mention to Chipmunk that he has plans with you those days. Really if she will get upset about that - well, let her. That's ridiculous
This is actually what was supposed to happen last Friday, but then Chipmunk came home sick so the point was moot. I think in actuality it was stated that Fridays if she is working Airyn will not be meeting her for luch so he and I can spend that time together. I'll probably say the same about Saturdays, but first it has to actually start happening. It's the beginning of the week, so it'll b a few days yet. My work schedule is such that if I'm a sleep by 4pm then I get 8 hours before work. So weekdays Airyn meeting Chipmunk for lunch isn't an issue it's Friday and Saturday that are the issue. She has agreed, but I'm still waiting to see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
Well since I'm feeling chatty today -
Do you recognize that the reason you aren't getting some of your needs met is because you back down almost every chance you get? Seems you change what you are OK with based on how things are with you and Airyn at that moment. How can you get what you want if as soon as you state what it is, you follow it up with "But I don't have to have it". Well of course you aren't going to get it then. Bite your tongue! You are sending muddy messages, Airyn might be getting some blame for things when he feels he's just trying to follow whatever you said last.
You may be right here. Especially about the moving out/getting a bigger place thing. Not all issue are wishy washy though. Hmm something to ask Airyn about. See if I'm being clear or confusing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
You know, if she moves out and lives separately, its not as if down the road when everybody thinks living together would be a healthy and fun thing for all involved that you cant all move in together then. That could be a very sensible plan.
Airyns NRE tells him that her moving out will alienate her, and that she will have no interest in continuing a relationship with him or in moving back in at some point. My position is that this reasoning isn't healthy, and I would like for Airyn to see that too.

Thank you two for the insight. I really appreciate it.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married

Last edited by Numina; 11-26-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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  #48  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:24 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Default You guys

You guys (and I don't necessarily mean male) are wonderful.

I'm so glad I started blogging here. Not only do i clean out the roughest of my emotions, but i get good advice, suggestions, and Ideas too.

Thanks.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #49  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:44 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Default Conversations with Airyn (Part 1)

Had a good talk with Airyn that encompassed a lot of things.

Finances: Still working to decide what is a beginning point for dating funds.
This has not changed Airyn's mind about getting a job again. It makes me sad. I told him that I hardly see him at all now, and I don't expect him working to help with that. I also made it clear that I won't stop him. If this is what he wants and he gets a hit on his resume that's fine. We'll have to work around what ever comes.

Dating: Talking about going out with other versus going out with each other.
1: We talked about how when Airyn and Chipmunk go out some where it is at her suggestion. That he and I rarely go out because we rarely went out before. That we do the same things at home we have always done together. That these are things he doesn't/can't do with Chipmunk (as she has no interest).

2: We talked again about how he had asked me not to take him out for his b-day, but then asked about spending a little (his text suggested that it would be about 6$) while out with Chipmunk. I told him that it felt really wrong for him to ask that at the last min. Especially after the talk he and I had about money early that week (versus b-day). I also pointed out that Chipmunk originally suggest buying the 30$ for $60 and 4 people deal at the restaurant they chose. That I told her you didn't want me to spend money to go out, and that she should take you out herself if she wanted to. That saving that little bit would allow the two of them to spend a little more on extras, and alcohol (groupon deals never seem to include alcohol). This was agreed on, and meant that she saved 15$ that she could then use for extras on the night in question. So I asked him why is it that her decision not to budget herself appropriately meant that he should pay for his b-day evening? He tells me that he would have offered the same to me if our finances were separate, and I came to him concerned about the cost. I accepted that this was so, and acknowledged that I know he would offer to pay for everything if that was an option available every time they went out.

Then I pointed out that his b-day was known and not a surprise, that Chipmunk had been talking for weeks about taking him out some where. That if I was planning to take him out I would make sure to plan for the expense based on where we are going, and what I expect to spend. I also pointed out again that she had wanted to spend 30$ and ended up spending only 15$, and asked what happened to the other 15$. I told him that if she had it when she purchased the groupon then that would have covered the little extra he asked me about. And that his concern over 6$ is why I was wanting to know if she could afford her part in gas this pay period. I told him that her part of gas has been set for a long time. It's something she and I have worked out. What had not been worked out was how and when she'd pay for gas. I also explained that she has been expected to afford a certain amount every pay period towards household expenses, that that amount isn't as set in stone, and is now agreed on, but was never over 30$ These are things she should be planning and budgeting for. That if she isn't that it's something she needs to work on, and he shouldn't be getting upset with me when I point out that it's her error and not mine that leaves her broke for a week between pay checks. I also pointed out that being sick was the perfect excuse to put off going out till a later time when she would be less broke, but that they chose (or she chose) not to do this. I also pointed out that it was only two weeks ago and one outting that they have that caused me to complain about it. And I talked to him about how much he had actually spent and showed him that he is spending as much out with Chipmunk as I did out with Boots AND History, and that he and I have not gone out this month, so it feel really unbalanced.
3: We also talked about how Chipmunk's schedule is still making it difficult for us to be able to go out. He reminded me that She has agreed to relax about requiring him to bring her a lunch on the weekend days that she works. I tell him that it remains to be seen. With her getting sick and coming home early it made no difference the first time it was attempted. He says he sees no reason it won't work out this weekend. He also pointed out that really we are only talking about once a week, as she typically has one of those days off. I said Yeah that's why it's been so crappy that she put this out there without offering to be flexibly or compromise. I'm not asking for much.

Chipmunk:
1: Airyn has begun to ignore Chipmunk when she is being pissy for no reason, to just let her be pissed, and get over it on her own. (it's a start) He's not sure how to approach her about her bullheadedness, and stupid thinking around requiring him to visit her on her lunch break. He told me what she was saying today on her way to work. (he drove her I stayed home) Basically he was told that if I'm awake don't bring her lunch, but if I'm asleep bring her lunch. So still not letting him choose to visit her. He'll have to talk to her about it more. I know it's something he wants to do, but I also know that if she continues to make it a requirement he will get tired of it.

2: Keeping up with her schedule. She had emailed her schedule to me last week, and then to Airyn this week. When talking about what time she had to be to work she asked Airyn about him writing it on the wall calendar. He chose not to, and went to take a nap. While he was napping I pointed out that the marker was right there, and she could write her schedule out. Then went back to what i was doing/reading online (these forums). She wrote her schedule on the calendar, and later I talked with Airyn about Chipmunk taking more responsibility for her self and how we have been treating her a lot like we do Wolf. That we do things for Chipmunk that we no longer do for Wolf. He agreed that we need to step back from this, so now comes the hard part. Actually stepping back and leaving things for Chipmunk to figure on her own.

3: Organization, household chores: Talked with Airyn about the laundry, how Chipmunk procrastinates putting her things away, and how her laundry adds up to as much or more then our laundry (mine, Airyn's, and Wolf's). Laundry is Airyn department as the Stay-at-Home parent so it is his to take to Chipmunk. I reminded him that when Laundry was my domain I would get very frustrated, and angry when the laundry did not get put away (by him and Wolf as that was there part), or clean things would end up on the floor, and thus back in the dirty stuff. I asked him about talking to her about this. I told him that to me this is disrespectful of our space, and that all our space is shared. That this is creating undue stress and resentment. That it is causing me to continually point out to him (when he's complaining about the issue) that I have been maintaining my things, and keeping what I have relatively straighten up. (I'm hardly perfect, but I'm not as disorganized as Chipmunk) I don't think he is yet ready to breach this topic with Chipmunk, and I'm about to ask him to stop coming to me with complaints if he is unwilling to talk to her about it. But we are not there yet. Baby steps. First acknowledge that it is an issue, and that it has to be communicated to get corrected. Airyn tells me that he did point out to Chipmunk that once he finds a job things will change around the house. That he won't be working and doing everything else. It's a starting point I guess.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #50  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:17 PM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Conversations with Airyn (Part 2)

Being Clear:
I talked to Airyn about it being pointed out on here that I may not be clear when talking about the things I want/need. I used the lunch thing as my example. We talked about it for a bit, but he seems to think that I've been mostly clear except in a few instances. So the conversation moved to me asking what went wrong, and why it took so long for him to talk with Chipmunk about it. I pointed out that she was requiring it of him, not of me. I also pointed out that the way it was handled shows me that he was more concerned about how Chipmunk felt then he was about how it was effecting me. That this is an unfairness on his end, and that these things can not continue to happen. That it makes me feel like telling him that if he prefers to spend his time, attention and concern on/with Chipmunk, (and therefore isn't providing me with my reasonable wants) that she needs to move out, and he may need to move out with her. My needs should be just as important as hers.

His shocked look at my perception of his being more concerned about Chipmunks wants then mine sparked further conversation. He asked if I could see him as being equally concerned. I said sure if he was acting that way, but if it take me 6 weeks and an huge arguement to get one day a week that does not show equal concern. I then talked about other examples where he has offer more concern towards Chipmunk then towards me. Such as during stressful situation. I then asked him that if this is what is happening how does he want me to feel. That my perception is that he prefers Chipmunk's company, and if this isn't so he needs to be showing me that. That it is how he treats us that leaves me feeling this way. But this is a conversation he and I will have to come back to. He is beginning to see that touch is an important thing for me. It always has been, and he has allowed this part of our relationship to lapse a lot.

We also talked about sex. How both Chipmunk and I prefer lots of sex (Multiple times a day used to me my norm, but even daily would make me happier). Airyn on the other hand is fine with less then that, so some times he feels he would rather just snuggle/cuddle, but also is worried that if that's all he wants and he says this that we will take it as him saying he doesn't want sex with us. I told him that right now my personal confidence, and self image aren't the best. That this reduces my comfort and makes it much harder for me to initiate. We talked about this extensively. We talked about the things that get him excited, and what he has expressed that he doesn't like. I brought up something that he rather frustratedly talked to me about, and pointed out that after this I kinda stopped. I also pointed out that this had further limited my options for making advance with him. He doesn't really remember, but thinks he may have been taking out a frustration with something Chipmunk did on me. He tells me that the advances I do make work just fine for him. That gentle touch, sensuality are what he prefers. Something tells me we will be talking about all this again soon.
We were both calm, and I didn't get overly emotional or angry. I even talked to him about how I know that this is something I need to work on, and I expressed that it is difficult to change something that has worked for me for 30 years. He just smiled, nodded, and told me I'm doing fine. That it doesn't bother him cause he gets it's what I need. I also tell him that I'm making an effort to not have these heated debates/arguments with him when Chipmunk isn't around. I explained that the lack of privacy makes this very hard, and sometimes things just can't wait. I acknowledge Chipmunks reaction making thing even harder on him when I'm upset about something.

This sparked him telling me about his conversations with Chipmunk over the weekend. Saturday they went for a walk together, and she was complaining about the lack of privacy. She then tells him he has it easy. He disagreed, and enlighten her to his position. He explained that most days one or the other of us is giving him an earful about something, and many time we are both upset at him at the same time. He tells her that he can't seem to make both of us happy at the same time. He told me that on Monday when I was angry with him Chipmunk knew and started to get upset with him, she came in the kitchen making her upset pouty face. He told me that before she could say anything he pointed at her, and said don't you start too. Which made her think about it, and calm down. He said it was nice. Not sure if he told her that. He did tell me that he appreciates the effort I'm making to reduce Chipmunk's upset with him over any argument he and I are having.

He also pointed out that we were having a private conversation in the kitchen without either Chipmunk or Wolf around. He says that Chipmunk never gets that. I thought about it for a moment, and then agreed. I told him that he was right, and that I can't disagree with that. I also pointed out that I have been making an effort to take Wolf out for a few hours here and there, and that this does provide them with time. Having more time to think about it there are aspects he didn't remark on. This is something we have talked about before. It's part of the larger whole about how much time he and I had, versus how much time he and I have now, and how much time he and Chipmunk have. How this effects the amount of sleep we each get. Me because i work nights, and to get alone time I have pushed back when I get sleep. Now I get maybe 6 hours before work. Chipmunk has been staying up lat as well so that she can have alone time after Wolf has gone to bed, and again after I have gone to work. This really only affects how much sleep she chooses to get when she has to open, or when she chose to go to school with Airyn. She dropped the class so she can chose to stay home and sleep instead. Airyn has always been one to stay up late into the night/the next morning. So really it effects him when he has to get up early the next day for any reason, and this is one reason he no longer takes Wolf to school.

So yeah there's more to talk about. More to consider, to think about. Airyn will have to talk with Chipmunk. I told him that she has yet to be able to talk to me about anything intimate. That occasionally she bring up financial things on her own, but mostly our important conversation are started by me. I also noted that some times she is very abrasive when I've only asked a question.

For example. She and I have an agreemeant about a department store card. She and I shop there together, and we both use my card. The agreement is that she will make one payment equal to the minimum payment required by the card. And that we will keep up with her balance together. I asked her over the weekend if she was making a payment this pay period or next, and she got a little irate about it. She said, "If you want I can pay it now". Told me that she has made a payment ever pay check she gets, that she has made two 25$ payments, and that she was thinking about making a 50$ payment at the end of the month. I was taken aback by her assertion that she was making a payment ever pay period. I had only asked for once a month, and since I hadn't checked how often it was being paid I just left it for later. The next time I had a moment I checked the payment history, and could see very clearly that she has made two payments one in September, and one in October. So I decided that when I talk with her about her payment again I would bring this up, and I shared this with Airyn. He told me that she was adamant with him that she was paying ever pay period as well, I was surprised again cause Airyn doesn't take care of the financial side of our relationship, and only has a cursory view of these things. He's never been interested in understanding, and when I'm explaining he just gets confused so we don't talk about it much.

Airyn made it clear that if I'm sure she's doing exactly what was a greed on and no more then that that I should call her out for making this false claim. I agreed, but also said that she may have felt that way because she was feeling broke. So I told him I'll probably be delicate about it. I suggested explaining that she had surprised me when she said she has made a payment ever pay check. Then remind her that our agreement was for one per month. I also told him that I want her to verify for herself how often and how much she has paid. So I plan to let her know that I only see one payment per month from her in the payment history, and to suggest that she check her mint.com account and search for her payments, and let me know what she has found. This is apparently something that needs to be taken care of today. Airyn made it clear that she was rather upset about it. I told him that I had no idea she had phrased things the same way with him. I promised to talk to her sooner rather than wait till this Friday as I had planned.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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