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  #11  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:37 AM
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crisare crisare is offline
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Crisare, my inspiration to drop the DADT policy was you.
[...]
And yet you call it a Don't-ask-don't-tell and I feel that my wife and I have rescinded that. So... A lot of the dynamics are the same in each of our relationships, but we seem to feel we're on the opposite sides of this issue. :P
Heheh. Go figure, huh?

I think it all depends on your level of comfort in what you call it as well. I think we probably have very similar setups, just different terminology
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:43 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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I think as long as you recognize that's YOUR perception, then we're cool. When you're saying that DADT is always a symptom of insecurity, then we have an issue.

For us it's not about insecurity. It's about respecting the privacy of each relationship and allowing each permutation of relationship to have it's own level of intimacy.
That's why I said that it's important to understand the reasons behind having such a policy. Though I've yet to personally encounter a DADT policy that didn't involve some form of insecurity. That's not to say that they don't exist. I just haven't seen it.

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I personally would be VERY uncomfortable knowing that my guy was talking about the intimate details of our relationship with his wife. I know my H would be extremely uncomfortable thinking that I was comparing dick sizes (metaphorically or literally speaking) with my guy.
What exactly is it that bothers you about such things being talked about? I'm not asking this as a challenge. Also, wouldn't being uncomfortable being compared with another lover constitute some form of insecurity?


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In fact I'd go so far as to say that if my guy's wife or my H demanded blow-by-blow details or required that everything we did or said was open to her, I would see that as a sign of insecurity on their parts - that he or she is not able to allow us a private intimate relationship, which could create problems down the road.
Nobody in this relationship that I'm exploring demands blow by blows of anything. I agree that needing to know everything is just as much a sign of insecurity as needing to not hear about things. However, knowing that I can ask about something without fear of overstepping boundaries goes a long way. If someone specifically doesn't want a detail shared, then of course they have the right to ask that it remain private. But it means proactive communication has to happen on everyone's part and not leaving things unsaid. So far, I haven't felt the need to keep what goes on between us private and it still feels just as special despite that.
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:45 AM
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DrunkenPorcupine DrunkenPorcupine is offline
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I generally don't get involved with people who have DADT policies with their other partners. I always feel much more secure when there's open communication between partners and metamours. I can't help but tie withheld information with protecting insecurity.
I've got to say, for me... This was the case.

Now... I think there are SOME people who can do DADT just fine. I mean... Every relationship or group of relationships is different and should be honored, but for me, there WAS insecurity.

My wife began exploring outside sexual partners because of a disconnect between her and I. The fact that she felt stimied to talk about her sexuality outside of us made me seem even more of an unconcerned ass to her. She really did think I was disgusted with her which is not the case.

Likewise, I thought sex and realtionships could be too powerful to be addressed within the confines of my other non-sexual (even non-loving) relationships.

So yeah, there was lots and lots of insecurity on both sides for my wife and I.

Recognizing it mattered, because we're coping with those now and I have to say... she smiles very big when I tuck her in at night. Almost immediately "Love" returned to our vocabulary.

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So it ends up being the same drama, just buried underneath the surface where it simmers and builds rather than being evident and out there for everyone to address. For me, DADT ends up limiting how involved I can be with a partner.
It build for my wife and I for a week or so, maybe two at most, and man... Those issues surfaced pretty quickly. The tension was NOT good. But in retrospect...

We've made mistakes in our relationships before, and we're still together. We have the amazing capacity to learn from out mistakes and fall deeper in love and grow close together as we work past them. The DADT policy has been no exception for us. Despite our sexual disconnect together, she now knows that I really care for her and that her sexuality matters to me. I couldn't express that with my cock (forgive the crudeness) but it pushing the boundaries of our relationship we've shared that, and I wouldn't trade that.

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The guy I'm currently getting involved with actually has a philosophy of "There's no such thing as too much information." And he means it. There's nothing I can't ask him about his other relationships, including all the details.
There's something there. We're at the point now where there are limits... Interests. My wife doesn't like all of my hobbies. I'm really into a game that she doesn't like at all. She asks "How'd you do" or "Did you have fun" but the specifics of the game... they'd bore and annoy her. She can have that boundary without HIDING anything or feeling ashamed about them. If there was something I wondered, I could ask. It's not an off limit zone. It's just that there's no interest there. But I could ask.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:51 AM
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What exactly is it that bothers you about such things being talked about? I'm not asking this as a challenge.
In many ways, I'm a very private person. And I believe that what is intimate between two people loses it's intimacy when it's public fodder - or when either person feels free to just talk about it to anyone who asks. For me, respecting my privacy - and OUR privacy - is part of what I ask of a partner. And it's part of the respect I give my partner with his other partner(s).

That's not to say I ask my partner to hide anything or to lie. I just have a reasonable expectation of privacy within my relationships.

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Also, wouldn't being uncomfortable being compared with another lover constitute some form of insecurity?
I think you're talking in absolutes, and I don't believe in absolutes. No one wants to be compared and found wanting by someone they love. If you want to get technical, then yes, I'm sure it is some form of insecurity, but you know ... people aren't machines. We all have feelings and fears ... and yes, insecurities.

And in the long run, it works for me, and I don't feel it's insecure of me or of my partner to respect each others' privacy and to not want to know all the gory details of what we do with other partners in bed.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2009, 06:01 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by crisare View Post
In many ways, I'm a very private person. And I believe that what is intimate between two people loses it's intimacy when it's public fodder - or when either person feels free to just talk about it to anyone who asks. For me, respecting my privacy - and OUR privacy - is part of what I ask of a partner. And it's part of the respect I give my partner with his other partner(s).

That's not to say I ask my partner to hide anything or to lie. I just have a reasonable expectation of privacy within my relationships.
Just to be clear, being open among partners does not automatically mean making something public fodder for anyone who asks. However, I will say that this guy is very public and writes a lot about polyamory with details about his relationships. But that is always with the consent of everyone involved and most of the time doesn't involve specific names. And for me, sharing the lovely things about my experiences or my partner's experiences doesn't feel disrespectful.

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I think you're talking in absolutes, and I don't believe in absolutes. No one wants to be compared and found wanting by someone they love. If you want to get technical, then yes, I'm sure it is some form of insecurity, but you know ... people aren't machines. We all have feelings and fears ... and yes, insecurities.
I don't think I was talking in absolutes at all. I asked if it was some form of insecurity and you agree. Pointing that out doesn't mean that I view people as machines or expect everyone to be magically insecure or that I don't respect people's feelings and fears. We all have feelings and fears and insecurities to deal with. For me, it's more important to deal with such things rather than set up policies that protect them and allow such things not to be dealt with.


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And in the long run, it works for me, and I don't feel it's insecure of me or of my partner to respect each others' privacy and to not want to know all the gory details of what we do with other partners in bed.

And in the long run, having a partner who is open and shares about his other relationships works for me.
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2009, 02:45 PM
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ladyjools ladyjools is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I think it's important to understand why such policies are in place.

I generally don't get involved with people who have DADT policies with their other partners. I always feel much more secure when there's open communication between partners and metamours. I can't help but tie withheld information with protecting insecurity. As a person who is usually the outsider dating people in established partnerships, I've found that DADT is usually the tip of an iceberg that usually causes larger problems for me when getting more deeply involved. If my partner's partner can't handle that kind of information about my involvement, then that usually means that, on some level, they can't handle my involvement period. So it ends up being the same drama, just buried underneath the surface where it simmers and builds rather than being evident and out there for everyone to address. For me, DADT ends up limiting how involved I can be with a partner.

The guy I'm currently getting involved with actually has a philosophy of "There's no such thing as too much information." And he means it. There's nothing I can't ask him about his other relationships, including all the details. The same for his partners- I can talk to them about anything without reservation. That's much more proactive and open than I've ever encountered before. It's also pretty lovely to experience.
I think i feel much more comfortable with this philosophy, though i do understand that not everying who chooses not to share detials is ultimitly insecure I think in my own life i feel that if i am avoiding talking about something then its usually because i have an underlying issue around it.

and with all 3 of the men in my life if they do have another partner I would like them to be able to share things with me. I don't need every single detail and i do understand that as a couple they would need privacy too but i think being able to generally talk about how things are going both in and out of the bedroom is important, i hate the idea of me feeling like im not allowed to ask certian things so its not that i am going to ask for a blow by blow but i don't want to feel restricted in what we talk about or ask each other.


Jools
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2009, 03:12 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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and with all 3 of the men in my life if they do have another partner I would like them to be able to share things with me. I don't need every single detail and i do understand that as a couple they would need privacy too but i think being able to generally talk about how things are going both in and out of the bedroom is important, i hate the idea of me feeling like im not allowed to ask certian things so its not that i am going to ask for a blow by blow but i don't want to feel restricted in what we talk about or ask each other.
Yeah, that's the same for me. For me it's not about needing to know everything or requiring my partner to share everything. It's about having that platform of openness and trust. I trust that my partner's partners will be appropriate in what they want to know just as I'll be appropriate in what I want to know. But being able to talk about his other lovers with him allows me to feel even more connected. And knowing that his other lovers might talk about me also just keeps that connection going.

I've also found that I actually like being compared to his other partners, which was kind of a surprise to me. It reinforces that sense that he chooses to be with me for my unique qualities. I also have lots in common with his other partners and it's nice to see that too, because I happen to think his other partners are pretty amazing people.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2009, 04:48 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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For me I obviously have no problems with the detail of sexual information Redpepper shares with me about sex with her husband (threesomes and total compersion), although I don't want to hear things if they are negative in any way.
I do consider the stuff they do, as belonging to both of them so the information shared has to be agreed upon by both of them.

As far as her tersiary goes, I don't want to hear any of the sexual details and Redpepper respects this although she doesn't get it either LOL! She does know that it affects my energy, which usually renders me impotent so unless she has a headache I think she prefers me capable
(We have played together at a BDSM event but I don't consider that to be sexual for the most part)

What happens between Redpepper and me, I feel belongs to both of us and as long as we are aware of whom we are sharing that information with and are comfortable with that then it is all good. But if she decided to say "no details to anyone" I would understand and respect that.

Redpepper likes to share more details with other people than I do but she likes talking about sex and sexuality more than I do
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:08 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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For me I obviously have no problems with the detail of sexual information Redpepper shares with me about sex with her husband (threesomes and total compersion), although I don't want to hear things if they are negative in any way.
Ha! I was just talking in PM with someone in this thread about this very exact thing!


This is what my husband is like; I think I understand why, and it's ok with me. I have lots of other ways to vent my frustrations and other people I can talk with, although if push came to shove and I felt that he was the only one who could help, I would MAKE him listen to me.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:17 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Ha! I was just talking in PM with someone in this thread about this very exact thing!

I have lots of other ways to vent my frustrations and other people I can talk with, although if push came to shove and I felt that he was the only one who could help, I would MAKE him listen to me.
I just cover my ears and say LALALALALA over and over until she gets bored or angry.

If there were things she found negative about our sex I don't mind her talking to her husband about them. I don't want that in return though..unless he knew exactly what she was telling me and was ok with it. I wouldn't be comfortable with her talking about things like this to other people unless she talked to me first. I find it an invasion of privacy to share some details that are part of a shared experience especially when it is easy to ascertain who the people you are talking about are. Sometimes it's hard to talk in generalities.
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