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  #271  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:50 AM
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Default Taking into account that we shouldn't open Pandora's box

A friend of mine has been in quite a predicament and the last two weeks were filled with his confusion about the road to take and my advice and take on his situation. To sum things up, he met a young woman, fell in love, was involved with her and her boyfriend for some time before feelings came up and finally ended up sleeping with her during a visit he paid them when her boyfriend went to work. Even though he knew how troublesome and shitty this move has been, he couldn't stop himself and came to me to hear about my opinion. (Well aware that this wasn't going to be a nice conversation like the one he had with his male friends “Way to go, dude!”, something along those lines.) I gave him my piece of mind and we moved on to discuss the possibilities that may come out of this mess.

While going through the options (he wasn't in for poly at all, maybe swinging with another couple, but feelings were too complicated from his point of view) he stated that he had always found it kind of strange that we (Sward, Lin and I) had never engaged in some kind of threesome activity at all. It was the most natural outcome from his point of view. I thought about this comment for a while.

I personally don't feel the need to explore this. I love being alone with my partner/lover. I want to concentrate on the other person and not be distracted by something/someone else. The farthest we went in regard to this topic was when we were making out on the couch in the beginning. I felt good and it was exiting to have four hands on my body, but at the same time I felt how uncomfortable Lin was feeling and that spoiled the fun thoroughly. Maybe that is the reason why I didn't think about it any more after this experience. On the other hand, I guess that I would think about it more often if I would really feel the need to go there. (It's a different story with women, I think about being with one regularly. But even in that case I don't particularly long for it, because I don't have a specific one in mind.)

I talked to Lin about it and he gave me quite a striking answer why he never initiated this again and is happy with things as they are right now. Early in our relationship he overheard Sward and me having sex and it was extremely unpleasant for him. It was one of the moments when he thought about his ability to handle a vee relationship at all. He found his solution in not thinking about what Sward and I may have between us intimately, switching off thinking about that part of our relationship completely. (Nothing I could do, btw; therefore, I have no idea how this works. Switching off thinking … like stop breathing for me ) Of course, he knows that we have an intimate relationship, that we have sex as well, but that abstract thought is OK. He doesn't want to fill it with concrete images or impressions, he would surely imprint in his mind as soon as a threesome would happen. He doesn't want to see what Sward and I do, or more precisely what Sward does with me.

Sward was the one expressing an interest in experiencing a threesome directly from the start, but even he didn't come back to this any more after the first attempts that went in this direction. Most importantly he didn't want to force one of us and his curiousness in regard to it declined significantly. He is unsure why, but it's off the table for now. My friend pondered about some resentment building up on Sward's part because of an unfulfilled wish, but Sward denied any negative feelings because of the lack of shared sexual experiences. He said, he in fact just stopped thinking about the possibility, because it seemed so unrealistic in our situation. It just isn't something we are in for in this constellation.

I guess there are some things we instinctively avoid doing to not invade the private space of the others important to us. We have found our middle ground to stand on with which everyone is OK and fine. By now our boundaries and the ones of the others became clearer and clearer and we adjusted to each other's needs and wants mostly. Nearly one and a half year after our starting point I regard us as steady and settled. I noticed that we are missing the freshness and in a sense the newness by now, which were constantly present before; occasionally during the last months even (here and there).
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Last edited by Phy; 11-19-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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  #272  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:05 AM
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fuchka fuchka is offline
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re: the natural death of Sward's threesome fantasy - I really relate to this I love how the reality of a situation can temper desires. It's quite a useful thing, in my experience
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  #273  
Old 12-01-2012, 03:29 AM
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Default Heated argument

Ok, so we had our first big blow-up yesterday. There have been 2 or 3 arguments between Lin and me over the course of the last year, but this was our first “I am too upset to talk to you right now and will better go to sleep” one. And this is so new, that I am not as much upset by now than curious how this will work out and what we will do over the course of the day and so on. Really strange situation.

It was caused by an advice Sward gave Lin in advance of the upcoming evening today. We will meet one of my best friends and her husband. We weren't in regular contact, mainly because she just had her finals during the last year and totally 'vanished' because of the stress around the whole thing. Perfectionists do have a hard time sometimes. But well, she reappeared again two months ago and has been a great help when I was sorting out my feelings and the possibilities around my options in regard to my poly-ship.

And her husband had a really hard time coping with the fact that she was able to just accept me and my situation. When she told him about our/my situation, he flipped. Wasn't able to let it go, scared that she might have similar interests, outraged about Sward's role in this (victim) and in general completely projecting all his fears and insecurities onto it. Concluding from what she told me, I guess she has had a hard time getting through to him. But, he calmed down some months ago and now she would like to get to know Lin and see Sward again and her husband started to be curious as well. That's why we set a dinner date at our favorite restaurant.

Sward, Lin and I were lying on the sofa, watching some show and just chatting. Some advertisement made Sward suggest that Lin better not touch on this and that theme because my friend's husband is working in some kind of official position which could cause some conflict for him in regard to the guidelines of his job. That's when the whole thing started.

Lin has had not so pleasant moments with some people working in the field my friend's husband does. And in addition to his reaction to our relationship constellation his job was the final straw that broke Lin's judgment of his character. He expressed that he probably won't like him and he should just try to tread on his toes (he used a way more rude and vulgar expression, but my swearing vocab isn't that great, so I guess you can read into that what seems appropriate …) and he would show him what he got and so on. Totally ruffling his feathers and such.

How I hate this. There was nothing concrete underlying his judgment, he didn't meet him, he didn't know him. The same behavior my friend's husband has shown in regard to our situation. Hm, well, I am a person who can't conceal how I feel. I don't know what it was, maybe body language because I wasn't facing him during this conversation, but he instantly knew that I didn't approve of whatever it was specifically.

Instead of getting pissed at Sward for suggesting some restrictions on his behavior, he got pissed at me for being how I am. “Is something not to your liking?” - “Indeed, I don't like it when you get this swanky and pretentious.” - “I haven't been that way, can't you for once not show it when something is displeasing you? Everything has to go according to your liking and taste … I won't budge/ bend over backwards for some unknown stranger ...” and so on.

Ah well … what do I do with this. I think this has been positive, as far as a quarrel can be. I finally know, what it is that ticks him off and what gets on my nerves in return. This was shown on some occasions already but never to this extend. [It is the opposite of Sward's behavior btw, they are complete opposites when it comes to this character trait; Sward's solution gets on my nerves as well, just you know it ] I am too judgmental and in a way in regard to this trait from his point of view totally coming across as “better than you – you can't do anything right”. He is too proud of the (from my point of view) stupidest things and totally protective of “his way” whatever that may be in the concrete situation.

I am curious what we will do with this over the course of the day. He just came in, not saying a word. It is strange to deal with an unknown trait of a partner (conflict solution, behavior during an extended argument). I have no clue how deeply this affected him, if we found some kind of debate of principles in there or if this is just some momentary hick-up. I at least know that he needs his time and will come to me when things are sorted in his mind. I don't work that way, but the problem isn't really one from my point of view. Therefore, we will see.
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  #274  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:22 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
...this was our first “I am too upset to talk to you right now and will better go to sleep” one. And this is so new, that I am not as much upset by now than curious how this will work out and what we will do over the course of the day and so on. Really strange situation...
I just wanted to say that I had a similar experience when Dude and I had our first "fight" where he actually got upset with me. (I disagree with him all of the time, and love to have an intellectual battle...but this was different.) I was less concerned about the actual conflict (which was not a big "dealbreaker" type) and more bemused and interested as to how it would play itself out.

I think I MUST have had similar feelings the first time MrS and I had an argument but I really can't remember...Curiouser and curiouser...

JaneQ
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MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


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  #275  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:44 AM
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Yeah, that is exactly what I am talking about. I know that I have been really emotional and unstable when this happened with Sward. But that must have been the age, I was about 18. I find it a bit strange that I am mostly curious and not that much upset about it. Need to look inot that to find the workings behind this, I guess.
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  #276  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:11 AM
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Ok, things are sorted out. The result is … hmmm... I don't quite know how I should assess it. It was to some extend a basic incompatibility. We really found each others kryptonite and we saw that we can argue about this for hours, we can't really change the fact that we work that way. I guess, it is ok to have one thing you can't let go off in regard to bad personal traits. Both of us realized that we won't be able to change this trigger for the other and that we can live with it. It took us over a year to discover this dynamic, I would guess that an argument per year is acceptable

Part of me doesn't like the fact that there is something I can't 'fix'. I hate it, when I need to realize that I am not in control over everything going on in my life. But this is what makes me 'me' in a way and what defines him as 'him'. There is a similar thing with Sward, but we don't stumble upon it with this big explosion coming along with it. I think, that has been the reason why I was so passive about it yesterday and mainly curious what will happen next. I am not used to such a fierce and hot-blodded person like Lin when it comes to arguments and fights. I was overwhelmed by the intensity. From Lin's point of view, this was a totally normal fight, something he almost never has with me, but quite regularly encountered in former relationships. Sward and I always talked things out, we never really yelled at each other. We will see when the next time will be.

All things considered, it was a really nice evening. I almost called it off after our second argument shortly before my friend and her husband arrived, but we had fun and I am glad that I didn't give in to that notion. My friend liked Lin and was happy to see Sward again, her husband got comfy around our group as well after some minutes and the dinner went great.

What I really need to give Lin credit for is his ability to come across as totally neutral and friendly even though he himself has mixed feelings towards the person in question. And to reset his opinion in favor of the stranger if he finds his prejudice to be wrong later on. He said that her husband wouldn't be someone he would ever become friends with, but it was ok to chat a bit and that he was a nice acquaintance for some evenings or casual get-togethers as far as he is able to tell.

In general, I had a rough start into the weekend with a nice Saturday evening dinner but totally forgot to tend to my papers. Today we will visit my parents to prepare everything for our secret Santa this year and I won't really have some time on my hands as well. Oh yes, another small news: The parents of my BiL will move into the flat above us. Even greater agglomeration of family in the near future. *scratches head*
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Last edited by Phy; 12-02-2012 at 08:58 AM.
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  #277  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:45 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Aww, I'm glad you guys got through everything fine. I feel for Lin, I get SO touchy when it comes to people who are skeptical of poly to the point that they might think of me as a homewrecker for being involved with a married person.
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  #278  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:04 AM
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Thanks Annabel

Strange that you mention this point as well. It was never part of the original discussion but one of Lin's interpretation of the points the husband may have made. But the husband's enrage was more about his wife being able to accept me and even defend me when they argued, which accounts to his main problem being me/his wife, sharing this notion that it is possible to love more than one and live up to it. (Even though this is nothing my friend would like to explore, her husband was jumping into his own mess of assumptions there.) It wasn't really any judgment about Lin being a homewrecker. I guess that is somethign that automatically comes to mind in the 'third person's position' joining a pre-existing couple.
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  #279  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:34 AM
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Default Extended family and 'outing'

Thinking about extended family right now. As Christmas is around the corner and some birthdays and such, I will get in touch with my relatives on a more regular basis. I have thought about telling the younger ones on a consobrinus/a get together some months ago, but it kind of not felt right. I am still unsure, if I want to tell them about Lin at all.

I would love to have both of my men present when we meet for celebrations and such. And I feel bad about being in the closet. But is it worth it? I really don't know how the majority of them will react. I guess most will be shocked or unable to really understand it. Some were already flabbergasted by the fact that another man is living with us. *sigh* I don't want Lin to stay behind on all the family events. I don't want to talk about only some parts of my life and leave the others out.

Maybe I should just wait for a bigger event happening at our home again. They will naturally see me with Sward and Lin. I won't hide it then. Maybe it would be too arbitrary to talk about some ominous partner out of nowhere while sitting next to my husband in the midst of all my extended family members. Maybe they need some preparation time to get used to the thought and I would ruin my family party by just showing what I feel. I have no clue at all how to approach this.
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  #280  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:03 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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When invited to go to an event just ask if Lin is welcome as well. If them knowing all the detail of your relationship would cause issues for them, just refrain from any PDA that would raise suspicions. No one else (outside the three of you) is "entitle" to know the details of your personal and/or sex life. Hell, my husband and I get suspicious inquiries, when there isn't anything going on and others imaginations are just looking for something to gossip about.
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