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  #1  
Old 11-18-2012, 05:06 PM
lolalondon lolalondon is offline
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Default Physical connection

Hi all

I've posted here before asking about kinks and sexual connection in old vs new poly relationships. Here is the ongoing dilemma which I guess sparked the question, and now it's coming to a head:

When I first met my SO we had a crazy connection. Like physically the most intense I've ever had. We'd have sex 5 times a day, never sleep, do very extreme BDSM, explore each other's fantasies.... etc. It was amazing, I've never felt so wanted or so turned on, I felt he really knew my body and I knew his, it was so special.

After a while, I noticed that not only things calmed down in a way you'd expect when a relationship gets established, but also the kink levels dropped, a lot. A few major changes I noticed:
  • He has delayed ejaculation but used to come in me once every week or two. Then once a month and with decreasing regularity - now we're down to maybe every 6 months, and it takes me pointing out how long it's been and him making an effort not to come for a few days. So it no longer happens naturally.
  • He is no longer interested in outdoor sex, SM, DS, degradation, anal or any of the other things that turned us both on so much... well with me at least! It happens if I ask a few times but it's never the same, and feels he's doing it to make me happy so it's really lacking intensity. He will stop as soon as I've come, there isn't even a question of him coming this way because I don't think he's turned on enough by doing it.
  • There are no more filthy text, replies to mine are like "that sounds good" and... idk. I just don't feel even a quarter as exciting to him any more.
  • Sex positions - he only seems to want to have sex now doggy style, it's always been his favourite position but we used to have lots of variety and him on top is my favourite. But he responds badly to me asking for it and gets defensive and says he doesn't really enjoys it (even though it used to turn him on a lot).

Now you can probably gather I analyse a lot, it's in my nature, and he says he feels under scrutiny and he knows that underneath his "super lover" thing he does with new partners he is actually insecure and overly sensitive to feeling like his performance is criticised. So apparently it was enough that I once responded unenthusiastically to a flirty text about anal that now we just don't have it any more, or that I once declined sex as soon as we got in that he stopped bending me over and taking me when he likes. He says I have a controlling nature and I know he has a point, but this is something I'm working on and I think I've made great progress with. But trying to tease out what is going on with how vanilla our sex life has become makes him defensive. Trying to talk about treatments for delayed ejaculation (which has apparently caused him problems in EVERY relationship he's been with, and there are effective treatments online) makes him super defensive. Trying too hard to flirt about the things I crave makes him defensive. And when he gets defensive I get emotional. I'm walking around with a craving for the sex we used to have and the things he wanted to do to me when now he wants to snuggle. I know intensity dies over time but surely the ability to be playful and dirty doesn't have to?? I grieve for the connection he used to have towards me, and this is compounded by the fact that I still want him just as badly as I did at day one. None of this is being helped by the fact that in my last relationship I was constantly rejected sexually by a lower-libido partner and that in his last relationship he retaliated against his ex-wife's lying to him by refusing to have sex with her for a year. So we have a complex connection to our sexualities...

But here is where things are getting even more complicated: he has a new poly partner who sounds great (I'm supposed to meet her soon) and I've just found out - yes I asked, and in a way I'm glad I did - that they do kink, anal, SM. I've been getting these needs met with another lover but have always wanted them in my primary relationship. Finding out that he has (at least for now) lost the ability to express himself sexually this way with me but can with her is saddening. His argument is "we've been together for over 2 years, we have sex nearly every time we see each other so what's the problem" and when I tried to say I am happy he's found someone to explore those things with but it is difficult for me when I've been craving and asking if we can do these things for ages... well then he said I make him feel bad. Idk. I guess my questions are -
  • Am I being neurotic or is there a problem here?
  • Can it be fixed or should I just decide if I can deal with my primary relationship being vanilla and my partner only being able to fully express his sexuality outside the relationship (I can't) and also feeling I'm to blame for all of it?
  • Any insights really... I feel a bit lost. I cannot go on feelings this way and we can't go on having arguments about it. We are giving each other mental blocks and insecurities and I feel we're in a loop. There's no way he'd agree to have any form of therapy... He wants me to "just chill" and believes that if we are actually able to go for a few months without talking about any of these issues things will resolve themselves. I don't know if I can - or shall I just grow up and force myself to? When I do I end up being sulky or sad but maybe I can try harder.

Thank you so much for listening to my rant
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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Helo Helo is offline
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The biochemistry that gives you such an intense zap with the right person is a limited time offer. Eventually even the most passionate relationship cools somewhat.

Plus you have to consider the physical aspect; five times a day with little sleep? Good gods, I hope you're not using oil-based lubricants because I'd be worried about your junk catching fire. It sounds like you're pushing the physical boundaries quite a bit and eventually the body both gets used to extreme stimulation and just plain gets worn out.

When I was younger (14-16ish) I had a girlfriend and we messed around EVERY chance we got. That translated to maybe 50-80 encounters a week, all with orgasm. After a few months I found that I just plain wasn't working, I'd feel aroused but nothing physical would happen. This was at a point where most guys spend half their day holding a backpack in front of them and I had the opposite problem. When we split, I found my problem went away rather quickly. There is such a thing as too much sex and in my experience, that leads to a lack of performance and interest in sex from the male perspective.

That's why in my current relationships, I actually favor fewer sexual encounters than most because it helps keep things exciting and passionate.

Consider taking a break for a few weeks (physically) and see what happens.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:33 PM
lolalondon lolalondon is offline
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Thanks, I agree completely but the issue isn't frequency - I'm happy with the frequency and would even be happy with less if it continued to involve the things we both used to enjoy rather than an ever-decreasing repertoire (currently it's vaginal sex in 2 positions, oral and manual stimulation, always in bed, always before sleep or when waking up, he never really comes and it's about playing with my until I orgasm than we stop). Gosh, just reading this... I would probably respond "he's just not that into you any more" to myself but there are many ways I know he is, I think

I think I'll ask to see each other less. I can manage to be the "chilled" less analytical person he wants me to be for approx one evening a week. We'll see how it works out...

Edit: for the record I'm 33 and he's 42 and we currently see each other about 4 nights a week. And this isn't about his age, he's very fit and obviously manages to have the more epic sex sessions quite happily with his other partner.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolalondon View Post
Thanks, I agree completely but the issue isn't frequency - I'm happy with the frequency and would even be happy with less if it continued to involve the things we both used to enjoy rather than an ever-decreasing repertoire (currently it's vaginal sex in 2 positions, oral and manual stimulation, always in bed, always before sleep or when waking up, he never really comes and it's about playing with my until I orgasm than we stop). Gosh, just reading this... I would probably respond "he's just not that into you any more" to myself but there are many ways I know he is, I think

Edit: for the record I'm 33 and he's 42 and we currently see each other about 4 nights a week. And this isn't about his age, he's very fit and obviously manages to have the more epic sex sessions quite happily with his other partner.
Its a question of the biology involved. If you're boning too much, a guy's junk doesn't work as well. Especially if the guy involved is in his 40's.

I doubt its "he's not that into you anymore" but like I said, the biochemistry that causes that kind of spark fades over time. It doesn't mean he doesn't care.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:37 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
His argument is "we've been together for over 2 years, we have sex nearly every time we see each other so what's the problem"
Problem 1 is that the sex you are having is not the stuff you want to have with him and you know he is capable of performance with his other partner.

Problem 2 is that he is avoiding giving you a reason for this. He wants to brush it under the rug.

Quote:
when I tried to say I am happy he's found someone to explore those things with but it is difficult for me when I've been craving and asking if we can do these things for ages... well then he said I make him feel bad.
Nope. He just feels bad. You can't make him feel anything. If you had this magical power you could make him feel excited to have anal/kink/ whatever sex with you that you are not having.

Quote:
Am I being neurotic or is there a problem here?
Yes. In communication. You should be able to ask your partner "Would you be willing to share sex with me in this manner?"

And he should be able to communicate back "Yes, I would be willing."

Or " No, I would not be willing."

And you should be able to inquire why if not willing.

And he should be able to give you a reasonable answer.

"I have frogs in my pants." ( I joke on purpose to keep it light. Not trying to minimise or devalue your feelings.)

Then you could ask him if he needs help removing the frogs or if this is just how it is now. Permanent frogs.

So you can then choose to accept him as he is now, and adjust your want to have this kind of sex with him or not.

Since you have this kind of sex with your other partner, I suspect it is not the mere sex acts. It's the intimacy -- emotional intimacy perhaps. Sex is both an expression of physical intimacy. Or a combo thing of (physical intimacy+ emotional intimacy.) If he has aged and now has frogs in his pants, how else do you share emotional intimacy together other than via sex?

Since he's unwilling to TALK about Shared Vulnerable -- and thus help create emotional intimacy with heart-to-heart talks... where else do you guys do this together? Share emotional intimacy? Could these things be plumped up a bit? Does he write you love letters? Sing you songs? What?

Is he of age for andropause? Could that be affecting him?

Galagirl
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:38 PM
ahpook33 ahpook33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolalondon View Post
Thank you so much for listening to my rant


I just wanted to say thanks for posting about this. I'll be following the progress of this thread with great personal interest. I sympathize with your predicament and hope this works out for the best for both of you.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2012, 05:19 PM
lolalondon lolalondon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Problem 1 is that the sex you are having is not the stuff you want to have with him and you know he is capable of performance with his other partner.

Problem 2 is that he is avoiding giving you a reason for this. He wants to brush it under the rug.
Exactly... he just denies there is a problem, and if I try to explain he makes it out like it's about me "telling him off" or undermining his "performance". He has never been able to separate things - if I crave a sex act we are not having it somehow means he's "let me down" and any little request leads to avoidance and that sex act being taken away from the relationship. But equally I feel a bit insane because he is so adamant everything is fine... I guess the main point would be to get him to admit there is a problem, and that it is located in both of us and how we interact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
You should be able to ask your partner "Would you be willing to share sex with me in this manner?"

And he should be able to communicate back "Yes, I would be willing."

Or " No, I would not be willing."

And you should be able to inquire why if not willing.
Ahhh but you see, his answer is "yes, I love doing this with you". He won't accept that it's all good and well him saying so but the fact it doesn't happen any more - for example with bondage we're talking a year now, whereas it used to be all the time - speaks for itself. He'll just flat out deny that he doesn't want to do these things for whatever reason (I think crisis of confidence because of our interactions getting quite negative is the most likely cause).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Since he's unwilling to TALK about Shared Vulnerable -- and thus help create emotional intimacy with heart-to-heart talks... where else do you guys do this together? Share emotional intimacy? Could these things be plumped up a bit? Does he write you love letters? Sing you songs? What?
He has adult ADHD and so he often sits in front of a computer or his iphone and will do gaming and stuff, maintaining long conversations "hurts his head" and he doesn't look after me in other ways, like cooking or taking me out much. So I guess sex was the arena where I felt looked after and loved... not anymore really. I know he really does care for me, but his idea of emotional intimacy is watching a film together; I hate watching things most of the time and more of an interactive person. He finds intense interactions difficult to manage. Usually we're both quite good at recognising our "different wiring" and compromising, at other times I just feel lonely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Is he of age for andropause? Could that be affecting him?
I doubt it, he still gets hard very easily and we always do something together, and he has a very high sex drive still. It's just... the ability to play together I guess, it feels like it's dying and I don't know what to do
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:36 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Ahhh but you see, his answer is "yes, I love doing this with you".
And then you smile and say "Wonderful! When should we plan our date to create the scene? No pressure, I just want to note it on the calendar. You want to negotiate it next month? 2-3 mos from now? "

And then his answer is....?

Quote:
I think crisis of confidence because of our interactions getting quite negative is the most likely cause).
Confidence is grown by doing.

So basically he is not willing to try because of the unnamed THING. And he's also not willing to look too deeply into the thing to identify what that thing IS.

And since you cannot force him you have to decide if you are happy with

1) Vanilla sex with him AND no responsiveness, and not giving of clear communication. (where you are at now)


2) Vanilla sex, with plenty responsiveness in communication (would you be ok there?)

3) No sex at all, plenty of responsiveness in communication (would you be ok there?)

4) No sex at all, no responsiveness (would you be ok there?)

5) something else?

To me? I'd be alright adjusting to changing sex ability with age. I won't be doing bondage with DH if no longer fit to edge play safely because of age issues! Non-kink sex is great with DH -- we don't have to always kink it up.

But I am not ok being in relationship with DH if he just stops communicating and relating with me. I want to know him, and I want to know his wants, needs and limits. I want to tend the relationship together.

Quote:
He has adult ADHD...
Alright, so you have a patient person with the ADHD thing and have to take that into some accord. But is he putting forth suggestions for what he IS willing to do to help create emotional intimacy besides movies and computer games? Have you asked him what other things he might be willing to do with you that don't hurt his head that are not bondage? Is he willing to be responsive to that question?
Quote:
I doubt it, he still gets hard very easily and we always do something together, and he has a very high sex drive still. It's just... the ability to play together I guess, it feels like it's dying and I don't know what to do.
You could treat the two problems separately.

1) The problem of communication: giving clear communication, responsiveness, constructive feedback.

2) The problem of no kink play -- like bondage. Then could choose take the bondage off the table. Like he's suggested.

"Alright, this is causing fuss. Let's just take the kink off the table for 6 months. We just enjoy each other in sex however it comes without pressure for it to be kink sex. Then we revisit the topic on ____ date in 6 mos to see if how we feel about bondage staying off the table or coming back again. Would you be willing to do that?"

Then you negotiate for what you need more of at the same time.

"If I am willing to do that and you are willing to do that, let's take it off the table.

New thing -- since now that is off the table -- are you willing to put some extra time in creating special date times with me in other ways? I miss you, I want to be with you, I crave closeness. So if we don't want to have in via bondage right now, what are you ideas for having special date times? And are you willing to talk to me about THAT then? Having special dates with me?"

And see what response you get there.

Find out where is IS willing to work with you. And if he's not willing to work with you at all anywhere, find out if you are willing to stay in relationship with him like that or not. If not, end relationship.

You can give it a good try. But not an endless good try. It takes two participating people to have a relationship in. If one person is not participating, it is a one sided relationship. That's not a healthy dynamic when he is capable of relationships with others. It's neglect of you.

It's not like his illness is at extreme level like family being ok with a one-sided relationship with grandma who now has Alzheimer or something.

Galahad
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:21 PM
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If I'm reading her correctly, it's not that straightforward, gg...

She says "do you still like x?"
He says "yes, I still like x."
She says "great, let's do x."

Then they do x, but he puts in the bare effort required to check x off the to-do list, with no enthusiasm.

Then he goes and does x enthusiastically with someone else.

So it's not a question of age, enthusiasm for x in general, or ability. It's that he says he wants to do it with her, but then does it half-assed.

I suspect this will not be solved without counseling, both as a couple to deal with their communication, and him solo to deal with his self-esteem issues.

I can relate. There are things my husband used to do for me (like cooking pancakes) and I said something critical one time about the way he did it, and now he refuses to ever do it again because he's convinced I think he can never do it right. It's completely related to his self-esteem issues and communication problems we had early in our relationship.
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 11-19-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:38 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I think it is simple.

He's either willing to participate in something with her or not:

1) The sex she wants to have with him.
2) The communication she wants to have with him.
3) the repair work (like counseling) to solve only 1, only 2, or 1 AND 2.

If he's just not IN this relationship any more and not saying it... she can choose to accept that he's just not IN this relationship any more and not saying it.

Once accepting that?

Then she can choose

1) She chooses to keep her expectations of him and she chooses to continue to participate in relationship where he does not meet expectation. (May still find it unsatisfactory, but that's the feeling ensuing after choice in her behavior)

2) She chooses to let go of any expectations from him and chooses to participate in the relationship. (See if change in her behavior (letting go of expectation) ensues in her feeling better or not.)

3) She chooses drop expectations of him and to choose to stop participating in the relationship and drop him. (See if change in her behavior (breaking up) ensues in her feeling better.)

4) She keeps her expectations of him. She chooses to stay in relationship. AND he chooses to meet her expectations. (That I grey out because she cannot control all of that option. Only her bits. HE controls him and what his behavior is and what he contributes to the relationship. So options 1-3 are things she actually has full control over. She may wish for 4, but she's not in control of him.

By no means is all this easy to FEEL. I am in no way saying it is easy to feel!

I wish for option 4 for her sake! But if he is not delivering to spec, she's got to think about the return on her investment. And whether it is enough to keep her here and feed her.

It simply boils down to actions done/not done. And what she is willing to live with or not. What SHE wants to continue participating in.

And that is simple. Take inventory. What does he do/not do? Is this enough to keep her here and keep her well fed? Yes/no? Only she can answer that.

One of those crossroads moments in life. "Which options stinks least? And which option leads to my best long term health improvement?"

I don't think just staying in limbo helps the stress level in the mental health bucket.

It's time to take stock. She could spend some time probing to see if he will respond to other things. And after her probing time? Come to Final Decision.

You can give your partner a good chance to respond and get their input taken on board. But if they shillyshally, then you have no choice but to move forward without them and make the call without their input on board. Sigh.

Lolalondon -- hang in there. I know it's hard for you right now as you try to sort all this out for yourself and where you want to be next. *hug*

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-19-2012 at 11:13 PM.
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